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Average User Only Runs 2 Apps, So Microsoft Will Charge For More
Barence writes "Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium. The three-app rule includes applications running in the background but excludes antivirus, and the company claims most users wouldn't be affected by the limit. 'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time]. We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people.' However, Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time."
id they explain to the users what "an application" is? I'm sure a quick straw poll around non-IT guys in my office asking "How many things are you running?" would result in a similar number, but then if I explained that "the internet" is a browser application, that "listening to my music" is a media player app, that "getting my email" is a mail client, and so on would bump the number up to a couple of visible apps like Word and Excel plus a futher three or four concurrent applications that are essentially invisible.
Another effect could also be to drive the usage of things like Google Docs further in the home marketplace. If you can't run Word but you can run a browser it'd make much more sense to use a browser based application.
Mind you, this could have an 'unexpected' benefit. Anyone running a bot would find they can't open a browser or play music or something. People would have a good incentive to make sure their PC is only running what it should be running.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
What if you get a virus? Oops it opens notepad and wordpad and now you can't run anything.
Hell, what about just running Antivirus? This is completely outrageous.
This is exactly why I use linux...
[On a Q6600 with 4GB RAM] I have 10 virtual desktops, and on them I _concurrently_ run:
Firefox with >150 tabs (using Tree Style Tabs for nesting);
10+ instances of acrobat reader;
VMWare running Windows XP;
as well as instant messengers, IRC, audio player, multiple VLC video players, etc
Not to mention that in that VMWare (Windows XP guest), I run a HUGE electronics design software suite... and it actually loads and runs faster in VMWare than running in native Windows XP!
Windows could never even attempt to run all these programs concurrently, smoothly, without crashes, and without delays in-between using any given app.
2 processes should be fine... after all, 640K of memory should be enough for anybody ;)
Out of curiosity has anyone ever actually seen a "Starter" version of Windows in use? I don't think I ever have. I wonder what portion of users actually use that version. That's not, of course, any justification -- I still think this is a really shitty move.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
task manager has 36 entries in the applications tab, 66 Processes, 37 open Windows.
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
If one is stuck with that one could run a free OS in one of those vizualisation applications and run their mediaplayer, webbrowser etc in there, while leaving two spots for windows-only applications.
Wine let's me run as many as I want at about 1/28th the overhead... does Steve know this? I anticipate flying chairs.
Will Clippy pop up and tell you that you cannot open anymore programs or will they get some cryptic notification that the limitations placed on their operating system require them close one of the currently open programs.
Will spyware be included as one of the programs or do Conficker and AV360 count as "Anti-Virus"?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
If Google Chrome opens a new thread for each tab, will Windows 7 Starter recognise this as one app or multiple?
Which is why I PRAY that they do this.
nothing will push Ubuntu and linux to the masses harder than a brain-dead move like this from Microsoft.
I really REALLY hope they do it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The iPhone/iPod Touch only runs one application at a time and that seems to work fine for a majority of users (ie. the ones that aren't screaming for push functionality).
I imagine the typical teenager would have the following open:
1 MSN Messenger
2 AOL AIM
3 Yahoo! Chat
6 Facebook, MySpace, Blog (and who knows how many more open IE windows)
7 Perhaps Word to switch to when the parents walk in (I'm doing homework!)
8 Maybe a game or two open (nothing heavy, but something)
9 E-mail (Thunderbird, OE, etc)
10 Video Chat window
Anything else I'm missing?
I hate to look like an apologist, but I definitely agree with you here. Starter edition was always meant for "emerging markets" as a cheaper version to combat piracy. The problem is that pirated copies are free or nearly free and do not have these crazy restrictions. Just "being legal" is not a big enough incentive to poor people in these nations to take the weaker product.
This story and the "Broken Fix-it Tool" article are some examples of criticizing Microsoft just to criticize Microsoft. There are tons of things wrong with their anti-competitive business practices and buggy software to complain about.
Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"
Not 3.1
3.11 for Workgroups.
Built in standard networking, and it was actually pretty darned stable, even running a few apps at once. Or at least, in my experience it was.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
... for giving people even more reasons to run Linux instead of Windows. Really, this is completely sick. My last Windows machine at home has been reformatted with Linux last year, I'll never run Vista and I doubt the next Windows will go anywhere. Windows users are basically happy with XP, meaning that XP finally did what '95, '98 and 2000 should have done but never did accomplish. Who needs Vista? What is Windows 7??
I had to use a XP Home edition on a laptop that wouldn't run Linux/*BSD without pains 2-3 years ago. (That XP came preinstalled with the laptop accompanied by a rescue CD that extracted an image into a partition. This would result in a XP installation with lots of other crap preinstalled.)
So I first got my backups (as administrator of course) unpacked onto the XP Home box and tried to change the permissions on that backup so that it could be accessed by an account with normal user privileges. It took me nearly half an hour to realize that XP Home doesn't let you change permissions on files. Another half one to find the way Microsoft thinks this should work (Copying into a folder called sth like public documents or so. Hardrive was 80GB large and I had ~60GB of backups.). I finally found a HOWTO on the net for making a XP Professional (nearly feature complete) out of my Home edition and an installation CD using BartPE.
Result: even XP has editions which are crippled beyond being useful. This is hardly news.
My mum uses more than three apps at any one time, even ignoring Anti-virus.
MSN Messenger (which she uses mainly to access Hotmail), Web Browser (i've managed to get her using Firefox atleast), Spider Solitaire and a Music Player.
then ofcourse there's MS Word which she uses ocasionally
That's 5, and if Anti-virus software is included 6. Any other user might well use a seperate Email Client to, and that's the 7 applications from the old report (the 70% of windows users have 7 apps open at once thing)
If it's released only to developing countries what will they be using on it? Browser, check, Email, possibly, Office tools, most likely, Solitaire/Minesweeper, probably. Messaging sofware, also likely (that's 5 off the bat)
As they get more net Savvy they'll probably have Bittorrent, Itunes, perhaps even a proper Game. At this point they'll be net Savvy enough to know their version of Windows is seriously locked down and will want an upgrade. They will do one of two things: Shell out for a new computer with a proper version of Windows (doubtful, they're in a developing country and if they've had to buy a nerfbook they're probably too poor to do so) or they download through their newly acquired Bittorrent programme a dodgy copy of Windows 7 (or perhaps are savvy enough and go download a copy of XP)
As the second one is more likley, but may not always happen, if you ever happen to speak to a nerfbook user in a developing country with a starter edition of windows, point out their windows is crap and point them towards a proper version of windows (point them to the version your conscience allows - or indeed, Linux).
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
Because, obviously, only americans are capable of making a good acquisition, or realize that they've been conned.
That poor people from the third world can't even understand how to boot up a computer, how about running four apps? No, to damn complex.
I don't know if this is prejudice or ignorance, but I'm gonna be polite.
I live in Brasil, very third world, and Vista Starter was available here. Do you want to know how many people bought it? No one.
Here, copyright isn't actually loved and respected. If we are paying for the software, it should better be the best we've ever seen.
So, you go into a shop, finds Starter, "oh, cheap software. I might even buy it. What???? 3 apps???" So you go home, download Ultimate and live happily ever after. You might even get very angry and switch to Ubuntu, but that's rarer.
And I don't see anything positive about it. That being very cheap (I don't know the exact price), it could be selected by the government to be used in digital include programs instead of linux. So, instead of getting someone that has never used a computer used to having a complete software experience, you will teach them that cheap software can run only 3 apps, and you have to pay a lot to have a more capable OS. Great, isn't it?
And let karma burn.
entropy happens
I found a local dial up isp....I found Trumpet Winsock for windows...got that installed, then learned command line ftp, to get this cool new browser I'd seen at school, "Netscape 1.0".
Wow...was that ever fun. Then came the exciting times when I could actually find a friend of mine that also knew what the 'internet' was...and had a working email address!!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I lived in Tunisia where internet and cellphones are pervasive. It's considered a developing market. I hope Microsoft realizes people will just pirate it. The pirated-DVD stores that line the streets all had Vista in them for 2 Tunisian Dinars (about $1.30 CADish)
Disclaimer: This post makes the assumption that Windows7 sh!t version really is planned to exist and really will limit you to 3 open apps.
It's 2009. In theory we're making "progress" with technology. The basic function of an OS is to provide a standard framework on which programs can run. All the fancy UI tweaks, audio and video nonsense, bla bla bla is extra. You're going to give them all the extras but limit the basic, core functionality of your software. Really, I don't understand why we need multiple versions of the OS to begin with. If you want to have add-on software...well SELL THAT - separately. Everyone buys W7 for whatever (reasonable) price. Sell an add-on pack that includes...well whatever other crap you want to consider value-add. This way if someone buys a computer and later on decides they need XYZ functionality they can just buy that and not have to reinstall (or hack) windows.
I suppose my underlying point is that it's way past time for an OS to be transparant to the end user. Give them extra software and capability if you want, but no user should need to worry about "oh noes, did I get the right windoez version? Is it going to stop my computer from doing cool things?" when a computer is delivered to their house.
Hey, car analogy! It's a 2009 Ferrari with a 1995 geo metro engine. Except even drug addicted rock stars crash ferrari's less often than windows and vista/W7 are more akin to a UPS delivery truck with fancy decals on the side. Big, ugly, and slow with valuable but hidden/inaccessible content and a fancy look on the outside disguising it all.
Oh, and 3 programs excluding AV? Ok, so let's also exempt anti-spyware, firewall, and disc encryption tools. I run at least 2 chat client, MSIE, P2P (closing and restarting screws up xfers too), webcam program that insists on coming up, solitare or other games...
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Exactly. Putting out the "disposable" version is a common marketing ploy.
Say you walk into a store selling alarm clocks. If there were only one model, costing $40, you might be disappointed in the lack of choice, and not very excited about the features offered for $40. You have no idea if this is a good deal, since it's the only model for sale. Unhappy, you decide to take your business elsewhere.
Now imagine you walk into a store with three models on display:
Now, you feel like an intelligent shopper, who has thoroughly researched your alarm clock choices, and you settle on the $40 model, which has most the features you are looking for. You feel like the $10 increase from the inferior model is money well spent.
run sun's virtual box. then you can run windows and linux seamlessly at the same time. FOr the aplications that require windows you use windows.
this would probably work out well.
However it won't actually work for the low end user. The lowend user is not going to have the sophistication to run two operating systems.
I get feed up with the attitude on slashdot some times. It's not the end users job to make virtualization or running multiple OSs for single apps easy. That's the developers jobs. I as a near brain dead zombie user should be able to click on my little icon and it magically open up. Now if I have 2 icons one that opens a native to that OS app that's really quick and another that takes 5 minutes for it to emulate the OS & app, which set do you think that will be used?
Here's a hint. It won't be linux running Windows emulators. It'll be folks running Windows 7 or newer trying to emulate Win98, Win2000, or WinXP. Slow will be the watch word.
I wonder, which antivirus does it exclude? For instance, will it see AVG Free as an antivirus and exclude it from the 3 app limit, or as an application that counts? (How does it know?) Microsoft has been somewhat unfriendly to third-party antivirus companies in the past. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
And that is just the 1/2 of it.
If I just count the things in my "system tray" I have too many things running, let alone the background apps.
1) My wireless applet that replaces the default winXP one.
2) Java
3) Virtual CD (A program that lets me mount iso's as CDs, useful on laptops)
4) IM client
5) music player
And I've just turned my computer on.
I mean, how do they decide what counts and what doesn't? There are a bunch MS processes spawned in the background. Even if you didn't count system processes, wouldn't that just lead to people installing things as system processes/services to get around the limit?!
(Assuming that you couldn't get a pirated version to begin with)
Get computer, get windows, spam and hack US consumers for "ch33p vi4gara" and bank account #'s, get rich
Then use that to buy a bunch of machine guns.
Seems in some places this actually *is* a business strategy, although it likely doesn't involve actually purchasing windows.
Quote from the fact sheet:
"Simplified task management. With Windows XP Starter Edition, first-time home PC users can have up to three programs and three windows per program running concurrently. Further simplification of the operating system includes setting a maximum display resolution of 1024x768 and no support for PC-to-PC home networking, sharing printers across a network or more advanced features such as the ability to establish multiple user accounts on a single PC."
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WinXPStarterFS.mspx
"Microsoft says the restriction is designed to ensure that users get the best possible performance from limited netbook hardware."
I'm calling BS on this one. If I'm using a netbook and it's feeling bogged down, I'll just close whichever app I feel is the least important. Firefox bogging down? I'll close Thunderbird.
So the lowest edition of Windows 7 is going to be quite rare; they'll instead steer everyone towards a higher edition. This sounds like an old auto industry trick. Go to your local Honda dealer and try to get a Civic DX. I guarantee you the dealer will try to strongarm you into a higher trim level, and if you insist on the lowest, they'll have to order it, since they won't have any on hand.
Of course, this could also be the kiss of death for Windows coming with netbooks altogether.
Just last night I was watching my 12-year-old son running media player, while browsing the web looking for cool wallpapers, while writing a story, while downloading a video, while playing othello, while having an IM window open...and I noticed a few apps minimized... Of course, this was on my Ubuntu machine, but I think my 8-year-old had 5 or 6 things running on his Acer laptop running Vista. If they had an OS than would only run 3 apps at a time, they would think it was broken (they thought Windows 2000 was broken for other reasons... no complaints about XP, though, and Vista's been okay since the first Service Patch, but they like Ubuntu the best -- they say it's a lot like XP(!?!)). I've never understood the strategy of marketing a crappy, crippled, "toy" OS, so that one can charge money for it with the rationale that their real OS is so much more expensive. It's especially puzzling when one considers that one can get a very powerful professional OS for free, with a bunch of great free applications. Does Microsoft have a human factors department? I guess they have gotten away with these strategies for so long, they've forgotten how to develop something that people really want.