Slashdot Mirror


Spaceplane Concept Receives Euro Funding

draevil writes "BBC News reports that the novel "Skylon" spaceplane design of British firm Reaction Engines has received funding to proceed with its proof-of-concept design for an air-breathing rocket engine. If successful, the Sabre rocket engine will be able to take the Skylon with 12 tonnes of cargo from a runway, to orbit and then back to that runway without the need for disposable components or a piggy-back ride on a larger aircraft. Should the design prove viable, it could see first use within ten years."

16 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. About Time! by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..That someone built a spaceplane. Too bad the US is busy cutting NASA budgets to fund a new welfare program.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    1. Re:About Time! by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Informative

      We have a space plane [wikipedia.org].

      No, we have a "Space Shuttle" that is launched vertically from a standard-type large rocket launch facility with a monstrously-huge and expensive to build and operate hybrid solid and liquid rocket launch vehicle.

      A hybrid spaceplane using both air-breathing and pure rocket propulsion able to take off and land on a runway like an airplane with no Shuttle-type booster rocket system required is a whole other animal.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    2. Re:About Time! by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We already have a welfare system.

      We now have a new welfare system for rich bankers, investors, and politicians *plus* the effective cancellation of the widely-lauded Welfare Reform Act signed by former President Clinton for the welfare system we already had.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:About Time! by BlueStrat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Cutting NASA Budgets? NASA got an extra billion in the Obama stimulus package.

      You are correct. However I was thinking at the time I posted about proposed cuts to the manned spaceflight program. I know they haven't been enacted yet or anything (to my knowledge), but it just depresses me that I was born in the '50s and grew up with a vibrant manned spaceflight program and went on to work in aerospace. I was really looking forward to seeing humanity progress to at least moon and Mars habitats before I died, along with all the wealth and progress it would bring the US and the world.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    4. Re:About Time! by prefec2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would always favor social welfare over a space plane in this decade. However, the USA are using so much money on their military, so it would be more useful to cut on military expenses for space flight. But first the current president has to cleanup the mess Bush made. BTW. in France and Germany the state is spending most of its money on social/welfare aspects instead of investing too much money in weapons. This is very reasonable because violence can not be stopped by more violence. And I really cannot understand why previous post is moderated insightful. I like space science very much, but I wouldn't trade the well being of my fellow citizens for a space plane.

    5. Re:About Time! by Proofof.+Chaos · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here here. They don't even blink an eye about handing the bankers billions of dollars. But they can't agree on any spending that would actually benifit our country. OK, its arguable as to whether space exploration is prudent right now. But the Republicans in congress are saying that expanding and repairing our worn out infrastructure is a total waste of money. No, they insist that if we just hand it out to the people who still have money, then magically, it will somehow help those of us who don't. What they are actually doing is called looting. They realize that they have driven us to the verge of collapse, and now they are just trying to horde as much as they can so they can come through the depression ahead of everyone else. They're getting kind of desperate right now because they are realizing that their $5 billion will only be worth $500 million in a few years.

    6. Re:About Time! by mysticgoat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please also note that the original Space Shuttle concept involved the use of a piloted suborbital rocket plane for the first stage, instead of bolting on the two sticks of dynamite. Under the original concept, the Space Shuttle would have had enough fuel to reach stable LEO, rather than barely skimming the top of the atmosphere in low LEO like the ISS does. The aerodynamic lift of the rocket plane would have conserved fuel during that most expensive first 60,000 vertical feet of the ride.

      If the program had been managed better (and if what had been learned in building the Blackbird had been made available to Shuttle developers), the Shuttle would have been an effective launch vehicle for many commercial satellites. That was a big part of the initial vision. NASA was expected to partially fund itself while also giving the US aerospace industry a significant lead over all potential competitors.

      The technology was within reach back then, and the modular approach would have supported improvements through stepwise refinements. But the original vision did not survive the politics of bureaucratic committee meetings, and the stupidly short-sighted secrecy surrounding the Blackbird program did not help either.

      So basically you could say that Space Shuttle program failed to reach its objectives not because of hardware limitations, nor because of software limitations, but because of limited, malfunctioning wetware in NASA and NASA related committees, and in the committees that so badly mismanaged military intellectual property.

  2. Good for them! by lee1026 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While the chances of this thing actually working is very slim, it is a very smart move to fund this sort of thing. At a million euros a pop, you can afford to fund a awful lot of projects that goes no where in order to find the diamond in the rough.

  3. 1 Skylon ~ 12 tonnes ~ 2 (two) Sabre engines by djupedal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >"...the Sabre rocket engine will be able to take the Skylon with 12 tonnes of cargo..."

    That should read "two Sabre rocket engines will be able to take a Skylon with 12 tonnes of cargo..."

    That is 13.225 US Short Tons...or approximately 6 tons per engine, if the illustration is any indication.

  4. Not much money for a space plane. But good luck Al by physburn · · Score: 5, Informative
    Alan Bond has been trying to fund an air breathing space plane since the mid 80s and the HOTOL project. This grant he's just got will allow the research to go on and a few rocket engineering PhD at a couple of UK universities, but its nowhere near the funding needed to build a real space plane. With luck though the technology might grow on, and end up in some space plane for the 2020s.

    Space Craft Blog feeds

  5. A million Euros is peanuts by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Unfortunately the UK has a long history of underfunded research and development projects that fizzle - Blue Streak, anyone? Significantly, the most successful British rocket project of recent years was the car that broke the sound barrier, and Richard Noble and Andy Green are now trying to build one to exceed 1000mph. Significantly, because when Noble was trying to get funding, BAe actually sent a memo around its engineers telling them not to co-operate as the inevitable failure would bring them into disrepute.

    Give the money to Noble. He'll use it to train the next generation of advanced engineers on a fun project that will actually go somewhere. Looking at the history to date of US efforts to develop scramjets (and this thing is basically an extended scramjet and therefore even more complex and expensive) a million Euros won't even pay for the project manager's office.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  6. Re:They are going to a lot of trouble.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It does work on the ground. It is not a scramjet. It is a hybrid between a jet engine and a rocket engine. It uses a jet style rotary compressor. The big innovation appears to be very fine control of the liquid hydrogen injectors into the combustion chamber allowing pressurised but gaseous air to be used instead of the liquefied air/oxygen that all previous rocket designs have needed.

  7. Re:Issues in a spaceplane by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

    Since it will accelerate all the way to orbit there shouldn't be a problem getting fuel out of the tanks. For burns in orbit a hydrazine based reaction control system should be sufficient.

    Liquid oxygen is as compact as oxygen can be made. For fuel, kerosene is more compact than hydrogen.

    I don't see an issue with guidance. An iPhone will do a pretty good job of it in this day and age.

    BTW I don't think this space plane thing will work but I do think the engines would be great for a high speed military vehicle. Something to get a payload to the target really fast. It could do unpowered semi ballistic lobs as well.

  8. Re:They are going to a lot of trouble.... by bpkiwi · · Score: 4, Informative

    a few hundred kilos of oxidiser
    The oxidiser weighs a lot. Take the shuttle for instance, at take-off the shuttle proper weighs 109,000 kg, the external LOX tank? 629,340 kg (just the LOX, not the LH2).

    On the ground they won't be moving fast enough to scoop oxygen out of the air
    "The Sabre engine is essentially a closed cycle rocket engine with an additional precooled turbo-compressor to provide a high pressure air supply to the combustion chamber. This allows operation from zero forward speed on the runway and up to Mach 5.5 in air breathing mode during ascent."

  9. Re:Whole ./ lead-in is a crock... by StevePole · · Score: 5, Informative

    The engine is air breathing up to mach 5.5, it can do this because of a) it's novel pre-cooler design, and b) because unlike other air breathing designs, it doesn't liquefy the oxygen before using it as fuel, it 'merely' takes it to it's vapour point.

    After mach 5.5 it operates as a relatively standard rocket engine up to orbital velocity (~mach 25) but by that point it's high enough that it doesn't have to fight through the thick air near the earth's surface so saves a lot of fuel. This increases the percentage of launch weight that can be used for payload.

  10. Re:Guaranteed 100% Vapourware by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're wrong about the engines, the engines are actively cooled at the inlet- they see ground level conditions throughout the flight.

    You're also wrong about nitrogen, nitrogen is perfectly good reaction mass up to about Mach 5. Beyond that it tends to come apart. Guess what speed Skylon calls it quits and turns on the rockets?

    The other point you're missing is that at low speeds rockets are horribly inefficient; the exhaust velocity is much too high. By using the nitrogen as reaction mass; powered by the hydrogen fuel reacting with atmospheric oxygen Skylon can reduce the exhaust velocity and get massively better efficiency. That means it needs a lot less propellant, and then when it does turn on the rockets, it has performance in hand. The design has twice the payload fraction of a rocket design because of that.

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"