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Last.fm Shoots Down Rumors Over U2 Album Leak

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the eno-is-the-only-reason-u2-still-exists dept.

nandemoari writes "Internet radio site Last.fm has denied reports that it told the record industry which of its members had listened to a leaked U2 album. The site claims the entire story, published by Techcrunch, was made up. Last week the record industry became extremely concerned after U2's forthcoming album appeared on several torrent file sharing sites. While there is no way any users could have acquired the album through Last.fm, the site's statistics suggest that more than 8,000 users have played the unreleased album on their machines."

34 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. Looks like the privacy paranoiacs win this round.. by slifox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Very often I see comments dismissing any reasons for not freely giving out any and all seemingly-trivial personal information...

    Well, this is the perfect situation for justifying the desire for what is now often considered excessive privacy. While some information alone may not seem sensitive, the conclusions others' might draw about you from it, combined with other info (like your profile data), may indeed be worth protecting.

    Of course, if no one gave out any information, the internet would be very blank... So clearly a balance between giving out personal info and linking that personal info together is necessary. For example, the only way I'd submit my playlists to Last.FM is if it were done in an anonymous fashion, such that my user account doesn't link back to me, my IP, or any other personally-identifying info. Otherwise, I'd be happy to include some profile info, but don't count on getting my playlist too!

  2. Does it matter? by jamesmcm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if they were reporting it, the moment they started acting on the fact the ID3 tags showed leaked albums, people would change all their ID3 tags to leaked albums in protest.

    1. Re:Does it matter? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if they were reporting it, the moment they started acting on the fact the ID3 tags showed leaked albums, people would change all their ID3 tags to leaked albums in protest.

      Probably not such a good idea since the Supreme Court struck down the Fourth Amendment.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Does it matter? by DustyShadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does browsing a last.fm profile that the user made public have anything to do with the 4th Amendment?

  3. Re:Nice Relationship by catxk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    30 years and counting

    --
    Don't be crazy anymore!
  4. The album is on Spotify by catxk · · Score: 5, Informative

    The album is available for preview on Spotify and Spotify is integrated with last.fm, so is it possible the 8000 last.fm users who listened to the tracks are perfectly legal Spotify users?

    --
    Don't be crazy anymore!
    1. Re:The album is on Spotify by mmkkbb · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Last.fm "Techcrunch are full of shit" blog entry links to a little bit of digging done by Ars Technica showing that the leak originally came from a totally legit online MP3 store that started selling the album early.

      So yes, some or many of those could have actually paid money for a legal copy of the album.

      --
      -mkb
  5. last.fm data isn't really evidence of anything by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 5, Informative

    Or, given the way last.fm works, 8,000 people submitted the names of the album tracks to the site. Which you could just do by re-tagging other files, or just submitting whatever you felt like to the web service.

    The fact that 8,000 have apparently listened to the album, based on their last.fm submissions, doesn't mean any of them actually have. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't either; it's just that last.fm data is hardly authoritative.

    --

    Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

    1. Re:last.fm data isn't really evidence of anything by Coopjust · · Score: 4, Informative

      The fact that many customers bought the album from legally Universal Australia, which was the source of the leak, means that trying to seek out the cause or find who downloaded the album vs. who bought it from Universal Australia means that any data collection from Last.FM would be useless- no way to determine who paid vs. who didn't.

  6. Re:Looks like the privacy paranoiacs win this roun by theginjaninja · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think the bigger problem we have is that people are still listening to U2!

  7. Having heard it, I promise you by VShael · · Score: 4, Informative

    that 8000 people hearing it, have guaranteed 8000 no-sales.

    It's terrible.

    1. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by LordKaT · · Score: 4, Funny

      Didn't he die in a skiing accident?

    2. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by webreaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's an interesting premise.

      There's a school of thought that says the pirated music encourages more people to buy through album sales based on 'previews'. And yet the RIAA claim this sort of piracy decreases sales.

      Perhaps it's just that people hearing the full album realise it's shit. I wonder if albums sales would decrease even further if radio stations played the full track-listing before the CD was available to buy.

    3. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by hannson · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, he's just a piece of shit

    4. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by Cassini2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a school of thought that says the pirated music encourages more people to buy through album sales based on 'previews'. And yet the RIAA claim this sort of piracy decreases sales.

      Advertising based on word of mouth is fickle for advertisers. If you have something good, then it works better than anything else. People trust friends. If your product sucks, then people still trust their friends, and won't touch your product.

      Internet P2P programs like BitTorrent amplify this effect. Now, you can listen to something yourself, and figure out for yourself how much you like it. Thus P2P results in a dramatic decrease in control for advertisers. It is even more fickle than word of mouth.

      If you have a poor product, but from a band with a good reputation, then you want to blitz market the product. Let no one listen to it in advance. Have it show up at stores in massive quantities the day of launch, and sell as much as you can on the first day. This way you can scam as many people as possible for first day sales. With some luck, this first day blitz will cover your costs, and everything will turn out OK. The movie industry specializes in this tactic.

      P2P threatens to completely destabilize this advertising tactic. The record companies, which are really big advertisers, will not be happy about this loss of control. Even if P2P ultimately makes them more money, the record companies still won't be happy about the loss of control.

    5. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by hollywoodb · · Score: 2, Funny

      that 8000 people hearing it, have guaranteed 8000 no-sales.

      It's terrible.

      Well kudos to U2 for consistency then.

      --
      I may have to share this planet with animals, but I'm doing my damn best to eat every last one of them.
    6. Re:Having heard it, I promise you by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps it's just that people hearing the full album realise it's shit. I wonder if albums sales would decrease even further if radio stations played the full track-listing before the CD was available to buy.

      I'm not much on psych (I think it is clear from my posting history that I am not a people person) but the news articles which might seem contradictory have already told this tale. People who download mp3s do buy more music than people who don't. They don't buy the same music. At the same time, it's clear that many people both a) don't want to have to worry about music expiring and yet b) are tired of buying CDs. I just had to explain this whole WMA DRM thing to my lady over the issue of some library audiobooks that she thought she could listen to at her leisure (nope.)

      Giving people what they want is the key to having customers. Being able to do it at a profit is the key to making money. The music industry has basically controlled what the masses want to listen to ever since the birth of commercial radio. Suddenly there is a new medium for media delivery which allows people to find out for themselves what they want and this has all the major corporate media producers scared shitless. That's what net neutrality is about, that's why companies like Verizon and AT&T want to control the entire network from end to end. When they can no longer tell you what to think (or at least, are just one voice of many) then you're going to stop buying their crap. If they can stop you from using the network connection you paid for in any way that they don't authorize, or at least marginalize any use of which they do not approve, then your mind belongs to them. That's why I get that creepy "big brother is watching" feeling when I see an Oscars Recap on the front page of slashdot. It's just another tendril of the media conglomerate reaching out to... touch me. In my private zone :(

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. Re:Nice Relationship by cromar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I for one am tired of waiting! However, independent music has been making progress, and we are far better now than we were ten years ago. We have good music blogs that provide promotional mp3s, iTunes and Amazon (I believe) are both dealing with independent labels (iTunes indie section, is insanely great), sites like last.fm and favtape.com provide a means of leagally listening to music. Albums cost less than they used to: $10 or less compared to some CDs that cost $22? (I haven't bought a new CD in a long time... are they still so expensive?) eMusic is even cheaper (of course a lot of their content is deliberately misleading crap, but I digress).

    The beginnings of a shining revolution in media are here and have been growing. Of course that doesn't stop such travesties as DMCA, DRM, erosion of fair use, etc.

    P.S. Has the ASCAP been fucking around in anyone else's hometown lately? In my hometown in Columbia, Missouri, we have had the ASCAP basically shut down our "open mic nights" for anyone who doesn't pay some rediculous ($thousands) protection money. The one business owner I talked to couldn't afford that, and the ASCAP goon had scared her good *even though typically no commercial content is sampled or covered at these events!* Result: local venues catering to independent music have been nearly completely shutdown.

  9. poor victims of their own creation by Tom · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The poor music industry, I feel so sorry for it. For years and years they have driven the marketing machine so that everyone absolutely must get the album on the day it's out, or as soon as possible. Mostly due to the way the charts are calculated by sales peaks, but also because everyone wants money now.

    And now people can't wait for the release day anymore. Geez. Who would have guessed?

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:poor victims of their own creation by LordKaT · · Score: 2, Informative

      anymore? I can assure that before the Internet, the music industry had the same "leaked albums" problem. Only they were combating street vendors in NYC, not some random torrent seeders.

  10. But the main question is... by Linker3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Has the record industry found what it's looking for?

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
  11. Re:Looks like the privacy paranoiacs win this roun by Nova77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

  12. Legal way to get the album source of leak! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Universal Australia accidentally released the album for sale for a period of two hours, 2 weeks before the planned release date. That is how the album was leaked in the first place

    Many fans, including U2 Blogs, made accounts with Universal Australia and bought the tracks within that two hours for about $20. UMG can't just sell people MP3s for $20 and ask for them back- sale done, game over.

  13. Last.fm Official Response by captainclever · · Score: 5, Informative

    Please see the official response from last.fm on our blog: http://blog.last.fm/2009/02/23/techcrunch-are-full-of-shit

    --
    Last.fm - join the social music revolution
    1. Re:Last.fm Official Response by psergiu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please tag story as techcruncharefullofshit

      --
      1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
    2. Re:Last.fm Official Response by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate the fact that your post has been up for an hour and is only at +3 instead of +5. What is wrong with slashdot mods? I guess they prefer conspiracy theories to fact as long as those theories validate their biases, namely that the RIAA has infiltrated all these music sites and that everyone is giving away their names and IP addresses. The conspiratorial anti-corporatism here is worse than usual.

    3. Re:Last.fm Official Response by waveformwafflehouse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As an independent artist I was considering joining your service until I read this (from the lastfm.com Terms of Use):

      When you upload Your Upload Information via the Website, you irrevocably grant to Last.fm, its parent, subsidiaries, affiliates, and partners, without any credit or compensation to you, a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, unrestricted, irrevocable, royalty-free and fully transferable, assignable and sub-licensable right and licence to use, reuse, modify, adapt, alter, display, archive, publish, sub-license, perform, copy, reproduce, disclose, transmit, communicate to the public, post, sell, translate, create derivative works of, distribute, make and export Your Upload Information (in whole or in part), or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, software or technology of any kind now known or developed in the future, for any purposes whatsoever including, without limitation, for advertising, marketing, publicity and promotional purposes, such as developing, manufacturing and marketing products and targeted advertisements using such Uploaded Information. You hereby waive any moral rights (or any similar rights in any jurisdiction) you may have in and to any of Your Upload Information, even if such material is altered or changed in a manner not agreeable to you.

      It is a truly sad day when an artist forfeits the rights to their art with no compensation or guarantee of credit whatsoever. As your service relies on the creations of others, I recommend a Creative Commons license. Respect the artist and they will respect you.

    4. Re:Last.fm Official Response by mmkkbb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From time to time, the Properties may contain functionality through which you can upload or submit information, data, software, messages, photographs, audio, video, text and other materials to, through or on the Website ("Your Upload Information")

      Most of the content uploaded to last.fm beyond your playlists is stuff that becomes part of artist bios. These are a wiki. You agree to similar when you submit information to Wikipedia. ("Such a notice grants a world-wide, royalty-free license, unlimited in duration, to use that work under the conditions stated herein." from the GFDL)

      --
      -mkb
  14. Julian Cope said it best by uncle+slacky · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently he once said:

    "I've just written a 17-verse poem entitled, "U2 - Four Heads Up One Arse".

    --
    Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
  15. You mean this album? by chord.wav · · Score: 3, Interesting
    http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4730213/U2_-_No_Line_On_The_Horizon-SHAREGO_320_KBPS_2009

    linking is the new terrorism :)

  16. Oblig joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bono, whilst playing a gig in Glasgow, got the whole crowd to be silent and then began slowly clapping his hands. He got the crowd to clap along for a while, the stadium quiet except for the rhythmic clapping...

    After a short period Bono spoke, saying that everytime he clapped his hands a child in Africa died...

    Suddenly, from the front row of the venue a voice broke out in thick Scottish brogue, ending the silence as it echoed across the crowd, the voice cried out to Bono "Well stop ****ing doing it then!!"

  17. Simple fix for that. by morghanphoenix · · Score: 2, Funny

    When you're playing something you have no possible legal right to play, turn off the scrobbling.

  18. Re:Having heard the album... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Informative
    "This album to music is what Velveeta cheese is to cheeses - it is pasteurized and devoid of flavor and texture."

    Yeah, but, what else are you supposed to make cheese dip out of???

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  19. And manwhile... by root_42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Trent Reznor is giving away NIN's new album for free, and still making a load of money on the album through online, CD, vinyl and DVD sales. (see [1] and [2])

    I say kudos to this man, and his slightly innovative, yet very successful method of distributing music. I have not yet paid for the album, but already downloaded the mp3 and flac version, and I like it! I guess I will try to buy the vinyl, if I can get it in any of the record stores here.

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_inch_nails#Ghosts_I.E2.80.93IV_and_The_Slip_.282008.E2.80.93present.29
    [2] http://www.nin.com/

    --
    [--- PGP key and more on http://www.root42.de ---]