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First Evidence of Supernovae Found In Ice Cores

KentuckyFC writes "Supernovae in our part of the Milky Way ought to have a significant impact on the atmosphere. In particular, the intense gamma-ray burst would ionize oxygen and nitrogen in the mid to upper atmosphere, increasing the levels of nitrogen oxide there by an order of magnitude or so. Now a team of Japanese researchers has found the first evidence of a supernova's impact on the atmosphere in an ice core taken from Dome Fuji in Antarctica. The team examined ice that was laid down in the 11th century and found three nitrogen oxide spikes, two of which correspond to well known supernovae: one event in 1006 AD and another in 1054 AD, which was the birth of the Crab Nebula (abstract). Both were widely reported by Chinese and Arabic astronomers at the time. The third spike is unexplained, but the team suggests it may have been caused by a supernova visible only from the southern hemisphere or one that was obscured by interstellar dust."

18 of 145 comments (clear)

  1. The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by unassimilatible · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1054 AD, which was the birth of the Crab Nebula

    The Crab Nebula is 6,500 light years away from earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_Nebula).

    This means the birth of the Crab Nebula was in the year 5446 BC. Mankind witnessed it 6,500 years later.

    News stories on such phenomena invariably leave out this little fact, i.e., that which is witnessed by man in the sky usually happened thousands of years earlier than when he actually saw it. This makes it confusing for the average reader.

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    1. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But isn't it more sensible when speaking in a historical tone to refer to a celestial objects birth relative to our time line and not the objects actual birth?

      I suppose it would be astute to word it in the tune of, "1054 AD, which was when man observed the Crab Nebula". This isn't accurate either as it may suggest that the Nebula could have existed prior to the observed date. ::shrug::

    2. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by khallow · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's a good reason to leave that fact out. It doesn't have bearing on the story. And your date is too precise. I don't know if we know it's position and motion well enough to determine how far away the Supernova was to the nearest year.

    3. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Cyberax · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's because it's CORRECT. There's no such thing as 'absolute time'.

      1054AD _was_ the time of birth of the Crab Nebula from _our_ point of view.

    4. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You seem very confused about reference frames. There's no "fixed" time reference for the universe, so it seems perfectly reasonable to use the one on Earth where all the readers live. Sure it give jerks like you something to complain about, but the rest of us understand exactly.

    5. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try: 1054 A.D. which is when man observed the birth of the Crab Nebula

      One thing I'm curious about. Does this mean that we admit freely that extra-solar events affect the climate of this planet? Anyone have a slide rule handy and some star charts or galactic weather maps? Can we calculate probable effect on current climate conditions from extra-solar events?

    6. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by jmizrahi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The whole point of relativity is that there is no such thing as absolute time. Your statement assumes that there is meaning to simultaneity, which is incorrect.

    7. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This means the birth of the Crab Nebula was in the year 5446 BC. Mankind witnessed it 6,500 years later.

      AIUI, it's customary in Astronomy to ignore the time it took for the light to reach us and consider that things in the sky happen when we see them happen. Not that they're not aware of it, it's just that it makes things easier to talk about, especially to laymen. In general, people either understand about the time lag and take it for granted, or neither understand nor care.

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    8. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by ankhank · · Score: 4, Informative

      It appears a nearby supernova could affect the climate, by ending it:

      Dec 1, 2005 ... Is there a possibility that a nearby star could go supernova and destroy the earth? Or have other bad effects on us? ...
      imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980521a.html

      They said, in part:

      If you are talking about the life on Earth, then there is a detailed calculation of the risks due to a nearby supernova on the web:

      http://stupendous.rit.edu/richmond/answers/snrisks.txt

      The author concludes that a supernova has to be within 10 parsecs (30 light years) or so to be dangerous to life on Earth. This is because the atmosphere shields us from most dangerous radiations. Astronauts in orbit may be in danger if a supernova is within 1000 parsecs or so.

      No stars currently within 20 parsecs will go supernova within the next few million years. ...

    9. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Entropy2016 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No. Assuming the resesarch is all legit & valid (I don't feel like carefully reading their methods right now), this still isn't relevant to Global Climate Change because this didn't affect climate.

      You've got short term weather. Then you've got the average/trend of weather over very long periods of time, which is the climate. A 3 year (eyeballing it from the graph) spike in nitrogen oxide concentrations isn't considered climate. An effect on Earth, yes it appears that way, but not one that yields biological consequences. That burst vanished as quickly as it appeared. This sorta of stuff isn't even close to causing mass extinctions or new selection pressures.

      Besides, the CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions correlating pretty nicely with with the effects we're seeing, I'm not aware of any spikes in the temperature record that we need gamma ray bursts to explain.

    10. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Glaring error? Frankly, I thinking giving 1054 AD as the birth of the Crab Nebula is the most precise way of pinpointing that event. We could have obtained absolutely no information about the event before that date anyhow.

      Given general/special relativity, appealing to some objective background time and saying that the supernova occurred "simultaneous" to events in 5446 BC on Earth is the truly ridiculous claim on a cosmic scale. To another equally valid observer, those two events are not simultaneous, and could be in a different order.

      If our understanding of cosmology or general relativity ever fundamentally changed, it's the date of the observation that's going to actually be relevant. If your audience *is* a bunch of scientists, they're going to recognize this...

    11. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by mazarin5 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is especially so when your audience is a bunch of scholars, scientists, and enthusiasts that are in the know and recognize glaring mistakes like this.

      Or, rather, people who are already damn well aware of this fact. If somebody took the time to point this out in an astrophysics journal, I would assume that they were either being paid by the word, or an exceptionally patronizing person.

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    12. Re:The Crab Nebula wasn't born in 1054 AD by Hillgiant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know that this is what a relativistic physicist will tell you, right?

      Depends on how fast he's moving.

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  2. Supernovae Found In Ice Cores by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only a matter of time until they find an actual frozen supernova in the ice.

  3. Point of View by ChinggisK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hmm... "birth of the Crab Nebula" or "death of the Great Crab Civilization"?

    You decide.

    1. Re:Point of View by MichaelSmith · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hmm... "birth of the Crab Nebula" or "death of the Great Crab Civilization"? You decide.

      Yet another thing for Dr Zoidberg to be neurotic about.

  4. Re:Model A/B by radtea · · Score: 3, Informative

    If these really are the supernovae, doesn't this mean that "model B" is right and "model A" is wrong?

    The two models look like extrema that bound the dates.

    More interestingly, the sharpness of the spikes indicate that the sealing of atmospheric gases in the ice happens very suddenly. If it did not we would expect to see much broader and probably asymmetrical peaks.

    This is consistent with, but does not absolutely prove, a rather prompt mechanism for such sealing, rather than the long lagtime process that is sometimes invoked to explain why temperatures always rise tens or hundreds of years before CO2 levels do in ice core data. It would be very peculiar, albeit not impossible, to have a process that sealed the ice tens or hundreds of years after it was laid down as snow, but did so on a timescale of a year or so.

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  5. Re:But there was no ice in the 1500's by Entropy2016 · · Score: 4, Informative

    You're citing an 1980 article from "Aramco World Magazine" to introduce a bunk story on par with lost-city-of-atlantis myths. It's not even a peer reviewed journal. It's a magazine. You're giving these Piri Reis maps much more credit than they deserve. You say they

    closely resemble an ice-free Antarctica

    but from what I just read the maps didn't even have a waterway between Antarctica and South America. An ice free antarctica should have a *huge* friggin' waterway there.

    If these maps are correct, and there was no ice in the 1500's... how were these ice cores found?

    They aren't correct. See above.

    We have ice cores that we know go back more than 400,000 years. Give the guys who date these cores some credit. To me this iceless-antarctica idea just looks like a retired old historian/cartographer pushing a crackpot hypothesis. Yes, Antarctica wasn't always covered in ice, but that was millions of years ago.