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Book Publishers Making the Same Mistakes as Record Labels?

Techdirt points out an interesting query in Slate asking why book publishers appear to be making the same mistake that record labels did with the iTunes service with DRM, and single-vendor lock-in. "Back in 2005, we noted that Apple's dominance over the online music space, which upset the record labels tremendously, was actually the record labels' own fault for demanding DRM. That single demand created massive lock-in and network effects that allowed Apple to completely dominate the market. If the record labels had, instead, pushed for an open solution, then anyone else could have built stores/players to work as well, and it could have minimized Apple's ability to control the market. Yes, everyone is now opening up (including Apple), but it took a long time, and Apple had already established its dominant position. So why are book publishers doing the same thing?"

29 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. by bornwaysouth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Publishers don't read.

  2. At least there's a vendor involved by east+coast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A vendor means money flow. Non-DRM can, and does, open itself up to free transfer of a product with no money being involved. That's a bigger headache than dealing with vendor lock in when you're trying to make a profit.

    Better the devil you know, so to speak.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    1. Re:At least there's a vendor involved by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      See Free Culture by Lawrence Lessig (particularly the chapter outlining the four types of "piracy") and the introduction to Cory Doctorow's Little Brother for a far more succinct explanation of why Doctorow put it on the internet (and still sells tons of hardcover copies, iinm it was in the NYT's top 10). you and the publishers are not only wrong, but in the publishers' case, possibly terminally wrong.

      Nobody ever went broke because of pirates, but lots of people have gone broke because nobody ever heard of their work.

      When Asimov's Foundation trilogy was first published, he got no royalties at all from its publisher, a small company without the means to publicize. It only started making money when Doubleday bought the rights from that small publisher and let people know it existed. It won a Hugo for all time best science fiction series.

      I don't know how many authors I've discovered by checking out their books at the library, then buying other of their books later. A free download, whether sanctioned or not, helps publishers rather than hurting them.

    2. Re:At least there's a vendor involved by east+coast · · Score: 3, Insightful

      you and the publishers are not only wrong, but in the publishers' case, possibly terminally wrong.

      Actually, I'm not wrong, you're looking in the wrong places for the wrong thing. And then you go off to mention Asimov? No surprise you've missed the point that publishers have to make to remain afloat...

      It's fucking *Asimov*! No shit it doesn't take strong arm techniques to keep authors like Asimov profitable but what do you do about the other 99.9% of what sits on the shelf at your local Borders? What about non-pleasure reading? Or are you telling me that the books I find on The Pirates Bay are all non-sales anyway? That's a joke of an excuse.

      And don't get me wrong, free samples? Sure, that can move books but how do you sell something if all of it is available for free? I'm not saying that the model doesn't work for some under certain circumstances but it doesn't work with the current numbers of the market. That's the difference.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  3. Same S***, Different Pile by camperdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We're going to go through the same problem again in about ten years when those 3d printer/modelling machines get really cheap. First music, then video, then books, then "solids" or whatever they'll be called.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Same S***, Different Pile by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oh no it's way more insidious than that. The book publishing industry have wanted to kill the used book and discount industry for centuries now. The eBook and 95 tonnes of DRM on it will Kill that industry they so despise with a passion.

      Writers are lucky to get $1.00 a book sold, that's if you signed a really good contract. I have 3 books published, I did what many writers consider career suicide. I told my publishers to go pound sand and I started self publishing. I now make $10.00 per book sold.

      Because the publishers are raging assholes, I can never get "published" by any of the big publishing houses, I have been blackballed in the industry.

      I really dont care. I will never use a traditional publisher again. They are honestly useless in today's world. My books are on the shelves of Barnes and noble and in Amazon.com without them.

      I just have to do the little bit of work they did.
      Many big traditional publishers are forcing writers to add DRM even if they don't want it on any e-releases of their books.

      If there is a way to destroy every old traditional publisher making them penny-less, I'm all for it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  4. Not all of them. Baen does not. by gweihir · · Score: 5, Informative

    Have a look at Baen books: They publish everything also as downloadable without any DRM (HTML/RTF/PDF) and you can buy months (4-6 books) or individual books. Individual books cost about the paperback price, a month costs about twice that. You typically also get the first 1/3 of a book as fee sample. They also have a "free library" where you get older books in the same formats entirely for free.

    Eric Flint coordinates the free library. He has a series of postings on the effect and it seems to be very postive, with older books suddenly producing significat income for the authors, which they did not before.

    Of course this only works for good quality books, but for them it works. I found myself buying more and trying authors I would otherwise have overlooked.

    References:
    http://www.baen.com/
    http://www.baen.com/library/

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Not all of them. Baen does not. by R2.0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Yeah but they mostly publish the glorified-war-sci-fi kind. But sure I really recommend buying books from them they have some really good book and they are cheap."

      That's not particularly true. They publish a lot of fantasy, and have had a huge success in the alternate history genre. That being said, Jim Baen (rest his soul) was quite conservative and tended to buy from authors who he liked, so they tend to be conservative as well. With notable exception - Eric Flint was a labor organizer, and Bujold could hardly be described as "right of center".

      As for the "glorified-war-sci-fi" comment, have you ever actually read any David Drake, particularly works from the Hammer's Slammers series? His stories are mostly through the eyes of soldiers who have no illusions as to "the glory of war". Or if they do, it doesn't last very long. But yes, some of the other series lay it on a bit thick.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:Not all of them. Baen does not. by R2.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You probably talked directly to Jim Baen, the publisher, and I'd guess he was irritated that you didn't read the FAQ.

      "But what about PDF?

              These formats have been extensively considered for WebScriptions. However, Baen Books does not currently plan to support them. If you would like to discuss these decisions, please visit Baen's Bar."

      That's not a blow-off answer; Baen's Bar is a very active forum that the authors and publisher use and pay attention to, and they've responded to the PDF question many times before.

      Oh, and considering that Jim Baen was an editor for many years, I'd guess he's read more books than you and I combined.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  5. One Word... by cutecub · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Greed.

    That's all this is about. That's all its ever been about.

    -S

    1. Re:One Word... by uniquename72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      yes, pirating is stealing and let's not quibble over the definition

      Saying, "Night is day and let's not quibble over the definition" doesn't make night and day the same thing. Piracy is infringement, not stealing.

      Every book that is pirated, and to the same degree where a book is swapped on an internet site, means one less sale to the author

      Replace the first 2/3rds of that sentence with "Every CD or video borrowed from the library..." to see why the argument is retarded.

      But you know as well as I that with electronic copies, the barriers are completely removed. That is why publishers want DRM.

      These 2 sentences together make no sense. If you add DRM, you still have an electronic copy.

    2. Re:One Word... by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      pirating is stealing and let's not quibble over the definition

      It must be very convenient for you to be able to dismiss a fundamental argument over the meaning of a word which is central to the debate at hand as "quibbling." I seem to recall various Bush Administration officials doing the same thing with words such as "rights" and "torture." You may believe that copyright infringement is the same thing as stealing; a great many people, clearly, do not. By calling any objection to your position a "quibble," you are trying to cut them out of the debate. Sorry, you don't get to do that.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  6. Audible by thermian · · Score: 4, Informative

    Audible have already cornered the market in DRM encumbered audiobooks. I've been a regular customer of theirs for years, buying dozens of titles. Yet I have not a single drm file in my collection, thanks to those nice people who packaged up the 'how to strip Audible DRM' set and stuck it on piratebay that is.

    I'd prefer if they had no DRM to start with, but for the moment they have lots of titles I want, so I just pipe the downloaded files through the stripping process and discard their drm. It takes all of 20 minutes usually.

    If however they changed their DRM to make it harder to crack, I would cancel my account that day and never go back.

    --
    A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    1. Re:Audible by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Well, because just downloading the torrent w/o buying the product is
      > theft.

      No it isn't. Coyright infringement is a tort, illegal, wrong, and even a crime in some circumstances, but it is not theft.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  7. Not technical books... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    When my last book was made available in electronic form, I asked my editor about DRM. Her reaction, before I'd expressed an opinion on the subject, was 'don't worry - I'm used to authors hating DRM. We won't put any on if you don't want it.' The contract for my most recent book had a explicit clause added preventing the publisher from distributing it in any DRM-encumbered format.

    Tech book publishers know that what they provide of value is access to a large reservoir of knowledge. That is why they are creating things like Safari Books Online, which allows you to browse books online and buy DRM-free PDF copies (or get some included with your subscription) if you need to read more than a few pages.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    1. Re:Not technical books... by chromatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tech book publishers know that what they provide of value is access to a large reservoir of knowledge.

      That doesn't mean they treat authors any better than other types of publishers. Most publishers severly undervalue their authors -- there's no way that the publisher provided seven times the value to my most recent few books than I did. (If they took on seven times more risk than I did, that's not my problem. That's their broken business model.)

  8. Think outside of the same box by unlametheweak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, everyone is now opening up (including Apple), but it took a long time, and Apple had already established its dominant position. So why are book publishers doing the same thing?"

    Because book publishers and record executives have the same types of personalities and intelligence that drives people into executive positions. They have the same token MBAs and Law degrees and lawyers that all "Business" people have. They all think-outside-of-the-box the same way.

  9. Ebooks are for chumps. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Kindle
    The "Guide" on the other hand...

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  10. It is the YES-men problem by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No matter where you are, if you are there long enough, you will start to think that what happens around you is normal. That is a very generic way to describe the problem.

    To put it more concrete, the more time Bill Gates spend as they head of Microsoft, at Microsoft, surrounded by Microsoft, the more he got to believe that this is the way the world is. He no longer has any connections to the outside world and his own world has become one that agrees with what he thinks because his world ain't stupid enough no to.

    Yes-men are liked, get promoted, you make friends with them and pretty soon everyone around you is a yes-men.

    I am a volunteer cameraman. The unique thing about this job is that you become a faceless observer, the camera allows you to distance yourself from whatever you are filming yet who you are filming often assumes, because you are focussed on them (Yes, cameraman wit) that you are not just intrested but even part of their world. Once the camera is allowed in, you are part of the family.

    It allows me to see parts of the world that I would never see otherwise. I don't mean shocking things like secret societies, well actually I do, because I am still at the early stage but still.

    Take for instance, performance art. I have filmed pieces where the artists involved talked about the importance and meaning of what they did and how their new work was affecting the world, while a simple pan would have showed an audience of only other artists and then only because they were waiting for their turn.

    It is a common thing, you see property developers talking about new plans when you can see that NOBODY cares about it, architects presenting new exciting buildings that you have seen countless times before and are never going to work out or if they do end up and windy hellholes where nobody wants to work or live.

    People live in their own small world.

    And so the book publishers, they live in a world surrounded by other publishers and hear the thing from people who want to work as publishers and get promotoed. So you say what you think your boss wants to hear and the boss promotes those that say what he wants to hear and pretty soon you got a system where no outside information can get in. No previous information.

    Right now we are debating in the Netherlands about the selling of public utilities to foreign companies. Because that worked out so well in the US. But the people in the banks say it works so it must work. Nevermind the credit crisis caused by the same banks, privatisation is good because...

    Trust me, once a system has been in place for to long with nobody to shake things up, you have a small bubble of alternate reality that you have no hope of penetrating.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:It is the YES-men problem by ianare · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, kinda like this web forum called 'slashdot' where everyone in it thinks normal people actually care about openness of files, formats, and software.

    2. Re:It is the YES-men problem by canajin56 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Slashdot (as a single minded group) might suppose that most everybody on Slashdot cares about open files, formats, and software. However, Slashdot certainly doesn't operate under the false impression that it represents normal people!

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
  11. answer by blhack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So why are book publishers doing the same thing?

    Because the companies are run by old-timer that are still trying to apply a set of rules that no longer apply to a failing business model.

    Look, the internet is here, it isn't leaving. Portable electronics are not some sort of passing fad. Dead-tree publishing is an old technology. As things like the kindle and the sony reader start showing people that they don't need to purchase a stack of paper to read a book, they're going to start demanding that when they purchase a book, they own the *book* not the rights to display the text of it on one specific device.

    People are starting to catch on to it, too. There is a marketing tool that we use at my work that requires a serial # to activate. Since then, we have installed the software for all of the serials (this is a result of everybody demanding that they need access to it...not just the people we bought it for).
    I finally told the boss that we don't have any more serials, we need more, and this is how much it's going to cost. He flipped out. Why was I being so difficult! The receptionist isn't using her copy any more, just use the serial number for that one!

    I'm sure this is pretty common. People don't understand how completely and totally ridiculous DRM is until they actually run into it. As digital media becomes more and more ubiquitous, this is happening more and more and people are having their eyes opened.

    Another example is when my Dad decided that he wanted to add MP3 playback capability to his home automation system (like what I showed him at my house). Problem was that all(most) of his music had been purchased in the iTunes Music Store and the tool that I was using for music playback ran on linux.

    Sadly, it might actually take as long as it takes for some of the people running these companies to retire before things start to change.

    --
    NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
  12. Book publishers need catchy hit singles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    People don't have the attention spans for a full exploration of a theme across an entire novel.

    They want one or two really catchy pages at a low price. Something you can dance to.

  13. Re:Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

    They don't have to, they hire people to do it for them.

  14. Not ignorance, fear by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They are not ignorant of history they are afraid of it and so are trying to cling to what they have for as long as possible.

    1. Re:Not ignorance, fear by tenco · · Score: 4, Informative

      history != future. They are afraid of the future.

  15. Re:Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat by just_another_sean · · Score: 4, Funny

    They don't have to, they hire people to do it for them.

    Well now that the Kindle 2 has free TTS they don't need keep hiring those people.

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
  16. Greed by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wiktionary defines a monkey trap as "a cage containing a banana with a hole large enough for a monkey's hand to fit in, but not large enough for a monkey's fist (clutching a banana) to come out. Used to 'catch' monkeys that lack the intellect to let go of the banana and run away."

    I think the lure of requiring customers to buy new books rather than borrow or buy them used has placed book publishers in a situation similar to that of the monkey who can't get his hand out of the trap because he's too greedy -- or perhaps just not intelligent enough -- to realize it's in his best interests to let go.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
  17. Slate article; poor analogy; used book threat by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First off, make sure to read the Slate article, not the crappy techdirt page that just summarizes and links to it.

    The Slate article makes a lot of oversimplified analogies. One big difference between books and music is that with music, there is only a very tiny difference in utility between a CD and a song bought online and downloaded. Personally, I perceive the CD as having slightly negative utility compared to the download, because it's just one more physical object to clutter up my house. Other people might prefer the convenience of having the CD, since you don't need to make backup copies of CDs. But in general, they're pretty much interchangeable products. With books, however, there are huge differences in utility between paper and download. I can easily make notes in a paper book. I can loan it to a friend to take to the beach. It's never going to become obsolete, whereas a digital book in a specialized e-book format is almost certainly going to become obsolete within 5-10 years.

    Because music has nearly the same utility regardless of whether it's embodied in a physical object, there are lots and lots of people who copy their music from other people without paying for it. There's really no such phenomenon in the case of books. Okay, sure, there are people who scan entire books and post them on scribd or something, but it's a very tiny niche, so this is another case where the analogy between books and music breaks down.

    The article says $10 is cheap for a digital book. This is both an oversimplification and an irrelevance to their argument by analogy. In the case of music, the huge difference is that if I want to buy one track, I can buy it for about $1 by downloading it, whereas on CD I would have had to pay $10, even if I didn't want the rest of the music on it. That's an order of magnitude difference in price. When it comes to books, there's nothing like that. $10 is ridiculously expensive for a used mass-market paperback. $10 is not cheap for a new mass-market paperback. $10 is about the going price for a trade paperback. $10 would be insanely cheap for an illustrated physics textbook.

    If you want to look for a real threat to the book publishing industry that's analogous to the threat file-sharing poses to the music industry, it's not the Kindle, it's the extreme efficiency of the used book market these days. Years ago, one of my favorite things to do on a weekend was bum around used bookstores in a place like Berkeley or New York. It was fun, but it was incredibly inefficient, and the used books weren't particularly cheap. Today, you can get pretty much any used book you want online, at a very reasonable price, and the internet has obsoleted the concept of a bricks and mortar used bookstore. A lot of titles go for something like a buck plus shipping. This is what the book publishers should really be afraid of. They hate the used book market. I see this most vividly at the community college where I teach. The publishers bring out a new edition of the textbook every few years, for the sole purpose of killing off the used book market. The sales reps are now constantly pushing DRM'd books that the students use on a rental basis, meaning that when they stop paying, they can no longer read the book.