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RIAA, Stop Suing Tech Investors!

The RIAA isn't just suing tens of thousands of music consumers; they've also begun filing lawsuits naming the directors of and investors in tech companies that they believe contribute to copyright infringement. NewYorkCountryLawyer writes: "ZDNet urges the big recording industries to stop suing tech investors, and cites the draft legislation that I posted, which would immunize from secondary copyright infringement liability any work done by a director in 'his or her capacity as a member of the board of directors or committee thereof,' and any conduct by an investor based solely upon his or her having 'invested in any such corporation, including any oversight, monitoring, or due diligence activities in connection therewith.'"

24 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. Sue Intel! And AMD! by Jurily · · Score: 5, Funny

    Clearly there would be less copyright infringement without all these PC's lying around.

    1. Re:Sue Intel! And AMD! by dido · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is more spot-on than the joker seems to realize. According to Bruce Schneier:

      I have long argued that the entertainment industry doesn't want people to have computers. Computers give users too much capability, too much flexibility, too much freedom. The entertainment industry wants users to sit back and consume things. They are trying to turn a computer into an Internet Entertainment Platform, along the lines of a television or VCR.

      (full article is here) Computers

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
    2. Re:Sue Intel! And AMD! by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is more spot-on than the joker seems to realize.

      It wasn't a joke.

    3. Re:Sue Intel! And AMD! by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It has even been considered here to require a license to have a computer since it's able to play broadcasted TV.

      Weird...

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Sue Intel! And AMD! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, in Germany, for private persons, as far an I know, this is the law... Apart from paying for empty media like cd-rs and hds, and other stuff. So we should pay multiple times. But they of course still think they can sue us. ...Well... nobody pays the PC tax anyway. If the government guy comes to your door, you simply tell him you have no PC, and then to go fuck off before you beat him up.
      But usually, if opening the door naked does not drive them away quickly, letting him come in, closing the door, and then slowly starting to jack off, does it for sure. ^^

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    5. Re:Sue Intel! And AMD! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hey? Why the troll moderation?

      Oh. Right. Americans + sex = not funny? Really??
      Stop being prude. I might really do that to a very annoying salesman. And it would be very funny, to see him running away in fear. :D

      And the rest of by comment (about the PC tax) is a fact. At least I did not heat the law getting overturned.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  2. Legislation to protect *investors*, hell no by sam_handelman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I should say - I think that this law suit is bollocks, obviously.

      But if you want to prevent this sort of thing, all you need is a law to indemnify inventors and distributors of technological devices and other services against contributory infringement. Why single out the investors and directors for legal protection?

      Investors and directors already have far too *much* indemnity against the actions taken with their money, generally speaking. This would set a terrible precedent, potentially causing tremendous harm to society in order to advance a very minor point of agenda.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
    1. Re:Legislation to protect *investors*, hell no by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >gun

      It's been done before.

      --
      Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
  3. Go for it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    RIAA, we know you're running out of money, so by all means start suing well-heeled investors instead of grandmothers living off small pensions.

    Hell, I'll even recommend a few law firms that bill starting a grand an hour to help you out.

    1. Re:Go for it! by jonbryce · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the RIAA starts suing well-heeled investors, then these investors will stop investing money in American companies, and take their money elsewhere.

      Then who's going to pay your grandmother's pension? And who's going to give you a job so you can save up for your pension?

    2. Re:Go for it! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well-heeled investor types generally don't like getting told what they're allowed to do with their money. Especially when they're told they're not allowed to put it somewhere where they think it will make them lots of money.

      The reality is that 'investor types' could care less about such matters. They put their money where they believe it will make the most money relative to the risk. And if the making of the investment were to put at risk more than the investment itself, but their own assets, they will steer clear. Even if the only exposure were the legal fees incurred in defending a frivolous lawsuit, that is a substantial risk which could run into the millions.

      The fact is, this is not a theoretical possibility. This is something that is happening now, ever since the judge in Napster incorrectly allowed the investors to be exposed to the record companies' frivolous claim. The investors did not choose to 'fight for a principle' or 'show the record companies what they could do with it' or show them how 'they don't like being told what to do'; they did what businesspeople do, they settled, to avoid the risk of continued litigation expense and exposure. Since then, some investors have balked at investing in digital music, preferring instead to put their money in other industries, where the competition are not a bunch of litigation-crazy freaks.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  4. Quick, dump your stock in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Let's see...
    Any computer company (ibm, microsoft, apple)
    All online auction sites like eBay (because they are full of nothing but counterfeits)
    Any company that sells ethernet cards or cables.
    Oh hell, let's sue the mining industry because they produce the copper for the cables, because copper carries signals that could be carrying stolen bits of data.

    As you can tell it's pretty damn stupid.

    The only companies that profit directly from copyright infringement are in China. Anyone in the US profiting from copyright infringement is exempt under the DMCA safe harbor clause.

  5. Re:Limited Liability? by SkyDude · · Score: 4, Informative

    You've exaggerated the protection a bit, but you're correct. In most states, a corporation is a treated as a legal entity that can be sued, fined or sanctioned. The officers of a corporation are protected from suits, unless the plaintiff asks a judge to "pierce the corporate veil". Typically, judges are loathe to do this unless the plaintiff provides a significant amount of evidence that the officers knowingly participated in illegal activities.

    Delaware and Nevada are corporation-friendly states and such a suit probably would go nowhere if filed in those states. Other states may have activist judges that think corporate protection is meaningless, and allow litigation on flimsy evidence.

    As is often stated here, IANAL, but have formed two corporations and have paid a large portion my lawyer's kid's college tuition doing so.

    --
    == First cross river, then insult alligator.
  6. Re:I'm pretty much in "broken record" mode now... by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The vast majority of the public doesn't have a clue what slashdot is. The vast majority of the music buying public is essentially clueless about nearly anything related to law and rights and all that. The popular commercial news will not report on these stories for a wide variety of reasons. Even if they covered the story attempting to demonize the people being sued, it would be VERY difficult to spin the situation to look this way considering the targets and especially considering the ones that were excused from litigation once they were identified.

    I don't buy music... but not for the reasons you might think. My reasons include 1) today's new stuff sucks, 2) I am not moved by music as much as other people seem to be, 3) I realize that music is not a possession but a thing to be licensed but is owned and even controlled by someone else.

    But take heart. The movement of public attraction to the indies is growing steadily... perhaps not fast enough but still growing. The use of DRM technologies is also on the decline which is also indication of where things are going. But the progress may never completely uproot the real problem here:

    The public is being led around by the nose by a LOT of popular notions. People think they need a "good credit rating" (aka the "I love Debt rating") and they think they need all of the crap and nonsense they buy. I am guilty of all of this same stupidity but I see it and increasingly fight this addiction to plastic. I gave up debt financing on anything but houses and cars and will soon give up on debt financing for cars as well. Spending cash and watching your checking and savings accounts erode with each individual item is far more sobering than watching "bills paid" come out of my accounts. (We see bills as necessary to pay and so we don't anguish about that as much right?)

    Okay, this seems to be going off-topic a bit. But the point is that we are living in this consumerist culture that will literally require a cultural revolution to get us out of. If Obama were REALLY interested in bringing this country out of financial ruin, he would start movements that would result in a cultural revolution or at least a return to more simple values. This consumerist culture makes a few of people rich off of nonsense and crap... but that's not as bad as the other, larger side of that statement! This consumerist culture makes a lot of people poor because of nonsense and crap.

    The music and movie industries are part of a larger classification identified as the entertainment industry of which the other forms of media are enlisted members. (So is it any mystery that 'the media' doesn't want to cover this topic?) Entertainment is not considered to be a necessity by the standards of most people and when people start watching their spending, that's usually the first to go.

  7. Re:Limited Liability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's the general rule, but there are exceptions. Otherwise, it would be too easy to exploit the legal concept of limited liability corporations to avoid responsibility for your actions. IANAL either but I have come across plenty of people with "clever" ideas they think will limit tax or litigation exposure.

    For example, Acme Freight Inc could set up a different subsidiary for each truck it owns with $100 of share capital each, and transfer ownership of one truck and one driver's contract to each one. That way, if there was an accident that particular subsidiary would be sued (but only owns the wreckage of the truck and $100). Acme Freight Inc would then claim that their loss was limited to their investment. Trying to get the courts to accept this scheme is likely to be tough, given that it is both grossly immoral and totally contrary to public policy and the intent of the road accident liability laws.

    The subsidiaries have no significant economic capital or operations of their own, and effectively act as agents for the Inc. rather than separate trucking businesses. That sort of situation makes it more likely for the courts to "look through" the legal entity. Of course YMMV and IANAL etc...

    In this case, the RIAA has effectively started claiming that the investors knew their service would be used for illegal ends and they set up a separate company to shield themselves from the legal consequences of their actions. Who knows what the courts will decide, but if the investee has a meaningful amount of capital of its own, has separate management and operates independently I wouldn't hold out much hope for this argument.

  8. Oh for crying out loud by seeker_1us · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets think about how this would have affected the development of: the personal computer, the VCR, the tape deck, CD burners, torrent distribution, the xerox machine, the printing press...

    What's really going on?

    RIAA warfare against "piracy?"

    or

    The RIAA is attempting to buy legislation which would allow them to destroy technologies that allow independent artists to compete with them.

    1. Re:Oh for crying out loud by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Lets think about how this would have affected the development of: the personal computer, the VCR, the tape deck, CD burners, torrent distribution, the xerox machine, the printing press...
      What's really going on?
      RIAA warfare against "piracy?"
      or
      The RIAA is attempting to buy legislation which would allow them to destroy technologies that allow independent artists to compete with them.

      That is their goal. To return to that glorious place they enjoyed for decades. A competition-free zone.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    2. Re:Oh for crying out loud by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is their goal. To return to that glorious place they enjoyed for decades. A competition-free zone.

      And that's why they are not going to stop -- it's life and death to them. The alternatives society has don't involve the existence of the RIAA and its member companies.

      Music publishers exist to identify music that large numbers of people would like and make it available. In the past, there was really only one way to do this and the record companies grew up around this method. We now have a much more efficient method -- let the masses sort out popularity and distribute it electronically. Sites that rank music based on some measure of popularity and genre provide a much more efficient method for individuals to find music that they might like.

      Other technological changes have made the publishers redundant -- the cost of recording music has dropped dramatically. There is no reason that an artist should need a publisher/label for publicity -- its not a unique skill, except for one factor: the label's hold over what is played on the radio.

      So, anything at all that threatens the RIAA's hold over radio playlists must (in the eyes of the RIAA) be killed off at all costs, because the alternative is the death of the RIAA. They are like a cornered animal -- almost defeated, but at their most dangerous.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. Probably an even worse idea by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Suing individuals for ridiculous sums of money was like a playground bully beating up scrawny kids for their lunch money. It's easy, but there's not much profit in it.

    Suing investors who can actually afford to mount a legal defense for similar sums of money is like trying to beat up the principal for his lunch money. And he's been itching to try out that new paddle.

    1. Re:Probably an even worse idea by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Suing individuals for ridiculous sums of money was like a playground bully beating up scrawny kids for their lunch money. It's easy, but there's not much profit in it. Suing investors who can actually afford to mount a legal defense for similar sums of money is like trying to beat up the principal for his lunch money.

      It's not the suing they're interested in. It's the sending a message to angel and venture capital investors, that they should invest in a different industry and stay far away from digital music, that they enjoy. If you're a VC, and you've got 100 different applicants from 15 different industries asking for a $250k investment.... it's pretty easy to decide to take a pass on the digital music startup and go somewhere else.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  10. Re:Limited Liability? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IANAL but I thought the whole point of corporations was to limit investors' exposure to the amount of their investment.

    IAAL... and I was under the same impression.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  11. offtopic - sig site by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is login restricted on your sig site? Should I apply for a handle?

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  12. Re:Silly proposal... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are already laws in place to protect against the filing of frivolous lawsuits.

    Name them. (And once you do I will show you why every one you name is entirely ineffective to deter the filing of frivolous lawsuits.) The fact is there is big money in filing frivolous lawsuits and the Big 4 record companies are the best customers for this product. They have spent far more on it than they have on product development.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  13. Not to sound as presomptuous as you, but by agnosticnixie · · Score: 2, Insightful
    the two activities, that account for 99.99999% of the P2P traffic

    Citation Needed