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The Realities of Selling On Apple's App Store

Owen Goss writes "Everyone is familiar with the story of the iPhone developer who spends two weeks of spare time making a game that goes on to make them hundreds of thousands of dollars. The reality is that with the App Store now hosting over 25,000 apps, the competition is fierce. While it's true that a few select apps are making developers rich, the reality is that most apps don't make a lot of money. In a blog post I take a hard look at the first 24 days of sales data for the first game, Dapple, from Streaming Colour Studios. The post reflects what is likely the norm for developers just getting into the iPhone development game."

52 of 223 comments (clear)

  1. Appstore apps are too limited by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I got my iPhone a little while after the 3G was released and I haven't found any of the appstore applications to be all that interesting. The only third party application from the appstore I use on a regular basis is Flashlight (which is free). The applications I use semi-regularly are SFNetNews, Palringo and Units (also all free). I can't recall a paid app that I bothered to use for more than a week. On the other hand I use Winterboard, Terminal (and the CLI apps that go with it such as OpenSSH), AdBlock and Reminder quite regularly (granted AdBlock and Reminder are passive applications); all from Cydia. Perhaps if the restrictions on what Appstore applications could do were loosened appstore developers could create really useful applications. Imagine the profit that could be made from an application that provided much needed functionality, such as a "mark all mail as read" button.

    1. Re:Appstore apps are too limited by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No the most telling thing about the Iphone store is that the app iFart has sold an insane amount.

      Cater to the lowest common denominator and you got a goldmine. Cater to those that have a brain and you end up poor.

      If you can figure out how to text real farts to other people no matter what phone they have, you have found a way to be far richer than bill gates.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Appstore apps are too limited by thedonger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apple has always been about profit - but then so is every large corporation. But I think the idea behind their lock-in, as opposed to Microsoft's, is that they want to offer a neat, prepackaged, no tech-savvy required unit, that works as advertised and really does live up to "plug-and-play." Not that they are perfect, but controlling hardware and software has put them far closer. While most of us were using Microsoft and having to reboot whenever we disconnected our P/S2 keyboard, Apple was daisy-chaining their USB keyboard and mouse.

      Yes, it has limited us geek types over the years, but they have given over to Intel and dual boot with Windows, so I think they are moving in the right direction.

      Back on topic, the link in the article doesn't work...

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    3. Re:Appstore apps are too limited by Stele · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not necessarily. My photo editing app, Photo fx (video here), has been selling over 1000 a day since it was released in January. But it's really just a streamlined version of our high-end Dfx filter software which runs on Avid editing systems, Final Cut Pro, and Photoshop, etc. The iPhone version even uses the exact same optimized C++ code.

      Moral of the story - make something people want (and do a credible job at it) and you'll do pretty well.

      On the other hand, you are also at the often arbitrary whim of Apple reviewers. My other app, Crack, was rejected because it "simulates failure" of the iPhone screen. Very frustrating.

  2. The value of being brutally honest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What I am more interested in, is how many sales he gets after being "brutally honest" and then being posted on slashdot for doing so.

  3. Piracy... by Computershack · · Score: 5, Interesting

    5 hours after the first sale, it appeared on the warez sites. Man that's got to suck. It's a shame the thieving cunts don't realise that with most of the App Store stuff they pirate that it's usually only a one man band behind it.

    --
    I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
  4. How Piracy Can Boost iPhone App Sales by Norsefire · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There was an interesting article on TorrentFreak a while back; How Piracy Can Boost iPhone App Sales, may be worth a read.

    1. Re:How Piracy Can Boost iPhone App Sales by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Reading an article on how piracy boost sales on torrentfreak.com is like reading about the Bush legacy on foxnews.com.

  5. The 3 rules of dumb of indie sales by Tei · · Score: 2

    1. The pirates will like your game.
    2. Going first page on a website or list, has a direct effect on sales.
    3. Dev's buy/play other dev's games/tools. Dev's are cool people to dev for.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

  6. Crappy color matching game. by MrMista_B · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What, a company makes YET ANOTHER crappy color matching game, and people are ASTONISHED they don't get rich?

    What are they honestly expecting? If all you're going to do is repeat, for the nth time, yet another basic, basic, simple crappy puzzle game, you ARE NOT going to make much cash, or get much recognition.

    Why is that a story? Just because it's an 'Apple's App Store' thing?

    Release a crappy color matching puzzle game onto the web at large, and they'll probably do worse.

    Gets right down to the most basic of basics: if you're not going to put the effort in, don't expect to get rewarded.

    In terms of the story - make yet another crappy duplicate of yet another crappy puzzle game, become yet another crappy also-ran.

    1. Re:Crappy color matching game. by vrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While the parent poster has clearly had too much coffee, the overall point made is valid. There are so many colour/pattern matching games available it's no surprise that this one failed to make an impact. It must be disappointing for the author, but he has to be honest with himself as to whether the game is actually any good and if there's any space in market for it at the chosen price point.

      Obviously it would have been better if these questions had been asked and researched before spending six months and thirty-two grand on development; but what's done is done.

    2. Re:Crappy color matching game. by TuaAmin13 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would be forced to agree as well. To sell well in the app store you have to first find what it doesn't have a lot of, and then make it better.

      I know the guy who wrote Countdown, and he said that on release there was only 1 other app that did anything close, which had been submitted to the app store just days before his. My friend did it better, so his app sells more than the other guy's.

      Contrasting this to games, which are a dime a dozen on the app store. While Dapple does appear to be better, what makes it warrant a $5 price, other than your development costs? What makes me, as the consumer, want to spend $4.99? I could buy 5 $0.99 games and play those for an hour or two each rather than buy a game for $4.99 and get 6 hours out of it.

      The Dapple Lite idea is great, especially if you market it as either a free demo or a $0.99 app and offer an upgrade path (I'm not an iphone dev so I'm not sure what restrictions there are for doing stuff like that)

      Disclaimer: I don't have an iTouch or iPhone; just know a dozen guys who do.

    3. Re:Crappy color matching game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I must add that after writing my own Crappy color matching game for the iPhone over 2 weekends, the costs of the application seems extremely high. At this rate the contractor he hired must have been Halliburton.

    4. Re:Crappy color matching game. by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed. I love my new iPod Touch and I'm desperate to find some good games for it, but so far, only Zen Bound has been worth more than 5 minutes of my time. Honestly folks, colour-matching games are not "good". Games you can play for free online through Flash applets are not worth paying for. The iPhone platform needs DS-calibre games.

      What we really need is a new version of Civilization, Master of Orion, or Sim City (and not the aging Sim City 2000 port that is currently available).

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  7. Costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dapple took me about 6 months to make and had a budget of roughly $32,000 USD

    6 months? 32,000?

    What happened to people making games like this in their spare time for fun and maybe getting ad revenue on their website. What kind of a person earning a living (ie. exlcuding rich children, who as far as I can tell make up a substantial portion of the iPhone userbase btw) would pay for this type of entertainment?

    1. Re:Costs by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems a bit unlikely, but he says he paid contractors to do it.. that tells me he's not a programmer - a phone based puzzle game doesn't require multiple developers (and I'd love to know how they stretched development time to 6 months). So the project is paying at least two people, one of whom isn't actually doing any coding - effectively deadweight - and it goes on for far too long... and they wonder why it fails to make a profit. This isn't unique to the appstore, the world of business is full of ideas that failed in the same way. Hell, I've worked on a few...

    2. Re:Costs by iniquitous · · Score: 2, Informative

      He paid contractors to create the graphics and sounds. Seems reasonable for a programmer to pay for help in those areas:
      http://www.streamingcolour.com/blog/2009/01/02/im-baaaack/

  8. Color me shocked by vivaoporto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reality is that with the App Store now hosting over 25,000 apps, the competition is fierce. While it's true that a few select apps are making developers rich, the reality is that most apps don't make a lot of money.

    And how is that different from what happens IRL (or, as the cool cats are calling it now, AFK)? You enter a market, develop a product and compete with hundreds or thousands of similar offers. A couple will succeed, some will get by and most will flunk and disappear in its own mediocrity (averageness, ordinariness as a consequence of being average and not outstanding).

    That is not the "[r]ealities of Selling On Apple's App Store", that's the reality of selling. People will copy your idea and sell. People will copy your product look and feel. The toughest ones will survive, the rest won't, but maybe will make enough money to keep the viability of their business choice. Or not. At all.

  9. Very surprised and disappointed by Shivetya · · Score: 5, Interesting

    that it showed up on pirate sites within five hours. Essentially it shows that the price of software is not a major reason behind piracy. Pirating a five dollar game? I wonder if there is a threshold for pirates? I suspect some do it for the fun of it, the "fame" of being first to do it. Still it blows my mind that people would pirate an iPhone app, let alone a cheap one.

    The real problem I see is that he lost among the clutter. There is simply so much shit on the apple store that it is easy to get bored or worse, annoyed, looking through it all. As such if its new it comes up on the list first and that is about the only time outside of reviews like the author noted that an app will get noticed.

    Throw in the fact that Apple over sells the game aspect of these units when most people don't associate costs with games on their phones let alone value for anything on the phone short of ring tones (riaa love child I think) or songs. I know on my touch I use a conversion utility, a calculator, a NYTimes reader, and the Apple email program the most; don't get me started on their shitty mail app.

    Outside of an ad campaign I don't see how you can stay in the limelight unless you buy reviews on sites, let alone get stories posted to Slashdot. I am not begrudging the author of the game or the submitter, it was truly an interesting read into how it all goes down

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by growse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's worth pointing out the difference between someone throwing it on a torrent site and having a significant number of people downloading it. If I make an app and sell it for $1, sure, someone will probably stick it on the piratebay. But I'd argue that the percentage of the overall usebase that will pirate it from that rather than pay $1 to have it installed easily will be quite low.

      Don't think it alters your overall point, but I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between mass-piracy (which may well be because your original product is too expensive) and one bored guy taking something and sticking it on a torrent site.

      --
      There is nothing interesting going on at my blog
    2. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by drooling-dog · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Essentially it shows that the price of software is not a major reason behind piracy.

      Sometimes - maybe most of the time - not even the desire to use the software is a major reason behind piracy. The people doing most of the downloading are simply hoarding, and most of the stuff that they grab ends up in a stack of DVDs along with hundreds of gigabytes of other stuff that will never see the light of day.

      This kind of piracy is economically irrelevant. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

    3. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think setting up bittorrent is easier than clicking buy on the appstore?

      Bittorrent is *hard* for non-geeks who think port forwarding is something that boats do. Hell, I've yet to meet a non-geek who even knew what it is.

    4. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by stewbacca · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your post is completely inaccurate. When I first looked to get a P2P client, I spent HOURS reading up on how it worked. Five or six years later, I still don't understand what a "seed" is, or why some files take 3 days to download, while others of the same size download in two minutes. The real boon to legitimate stores is the complexity and shaky quality of P2P clients. Most of the time it's just easier to click on iTunes and pay $9 than it is to weed through the fifth or sixth copy off of P2P that is labeled by a third grade dyslexic moron, or a song recorded off the radio in a bathroom with a 1984 Sony Walkman.

    5. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by jabithew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's always going to be people who can't afford something. In the past, sellers, as part of the free market, have had the freedom to set their own price to maximise profits and the commercial viability of their product. Not any more, thanks to piracy!

      In a free market, a company has a lot of competitors and its prices are set by its costs, not its profits. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to consider how free various markets are (compare US and UK telecoms, e.g.)

      Now, consumers can decide what they think is fair for the seller to have, regardless of the seller's wishes, needs, or financial health. While we're at it, we might as well make it legal (or at least morally A-OK) to run out of a retail joint with a physical object, leaving only the manufacturing costs behind.

      "Profit" is a cost of manufacture; as Adam Smith so astutely pointed out, what we call 'profit' should rightly be called 'cost of capital', as it is normally either returned to shareholders who stumped up the capital, re-invested in staying competitive or some combination of the two. If companies didn't 'profit' they'd have no way to pay for capital and hence no company.

      Paying the manufacturing cost is not simple; do you pay for the raw materials, the raw materials+cost of capital of machinery, raw materials+cost of labour, raw materials+cost of capital+cost of labour+cost of distribution? When you account for all the costs you have paid the market price.

      I'm basically agreeing with you, but refining your argument.

      --
      All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
    6. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by DingerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's obvious that your typology has very little meaning.

      Yes, you can divide them that way, but it won't explain anything. The fact the very first sale was likely a pirate sale (I say likely, because an enterprising pirate would find someone on the inside to jack that file straight off the server) doesn't have anything to do with being able to afford it, but rather that _being the first to supply a pirate copy_ has value.

      You can divide the group into purchased and "woulda-coulda", but the value of a pirated copy is different from that of a legitimate one. Unless the legitimate copy is intentionally crippled, it's worth more than a pirate copy. And cost isn't just a function of monetary price; it involves all the trouble needed to go through to get a copy.

      In short: there are A. People for whom pirated copies are inherently better for whatever social value they bring (the pirate scenesters). B. People for whom pirated copies are so repugnant, they'll never consider it. C. People who are ambiguous about it, and will behave according to cost.

      There's not much you can do about A. For B and C, however, the trick is to make as much value as affordable as possible while keeping revenue up.

      The problem is that companies seem to think the trick is to sell as little value at the most competitive price. Cheapening the value of the (legitimate) purchase lowers the barrier to (illegitimate) distribution.

      None of this helps the poor guy trying to sell his iPhone app.; I'm just saying that the dynamics aren't all unit price and piracy.

    7. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by ClassMyAss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still it blows my mind that people would pirate an iPhone app, let alone a cheap one.

      Not that you're not right withthat sentiment, but just wanted to point out: five dollars is real expensive as far as iPhone games go, especially simple puzzle ones. The high price tag is probably the primary reason that he's not selling many of these things; I know plenty of devs that successfully sell simple games at the $1 level, and they are able to sell tons of them as long as the product is good (20 or 30 thousand is not unheard of, even if you're not a huge success). A couple hundred purchases means that you made some serious mistakes either in pricing or promotion.

      The moment you charge anything for an app, you slash the number of "purchasers" to about 1/10 to 1/100 of what it would have been if it were free; if you go above $1, you're whittling that down much further unless your game has a whole lot of publicity or a brand name to prop sales up. Apart from Galcon, I can't think of many indie games that became even remotely popular for more than maybe $3 a pop.

      I think the optimal price for almost every game on the iPhone (that is, every one without a franchise) is probably $1, but I'd really need to see more data to be sure of that.

    8. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by WNight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yah, because !free = too expensive.

      Yah, because !free = too expensive.

      No, seriously. It's not just the upfront cost, the $1 or $100 even, it's pulling out the credit card (not an issue for app store, but elsewhere), the EULAs, the non-returnability that makes you pissed when you bought the wrong thing, the time spent fighting its DRM, the time wasted in the future not able to fix the bugs on your own. Then consider than you have to try a few apps to find the one you really want.

      Free apps don't have most of those hassles. They're all in the Debian archives (and similar would exist for any free platform) so install is seamless - zero-click simple. There's no DRM, no lock-in, no EULAs - they're totally benign in a business sense. There's no feeling of wanting to throw good-time after bad-money to make up for the purchase price - if you don't like it you move on with no regrets. The FOSS apps are coded to a standard - they don't leave crud all over your system. Most importantly you can get a third party to fix bugs or add features.

      Can you imagine if anyone actually considered the cost of all this proprietary nonsense when doing TCO calculations. What does it really cost to read all the EULAs, check that they didn't change between versions, or re-read it from scratch, and actually follow the crazy restrictions, like figuring out how to prevent you employees from publishing unauthorized reviews (Oracle?), etc. Tracking installs, making sure a product isn't installed onto the wrong hardware (too many CPU cores, not an Apple-branded board, not allowed to run in a virtual machine, etc, etc).

      Consider the case for switching to DRM if you weren't there already. "Hey boss, the publisher of ProgramX wants to install spyware with the app to make sure we use it correctly - can we do this and maintain confidentially for our patients?"

      How about a kill-switch in the OS, or your critical apps. How much better would the program have to be than its competitors that you'd accept it despite being unable to guarantee it'll keep working. One bug with a licensing server marking your programs as invalid right in the middle of crunch time and you could be out of business.

      So yes, non-free software is too expensive, even at $0.

    9. Re:Very surprised and disappointed by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Paying the manufacturing cost is not simple

      Not to arrogant, self-justifying pirates. To them, paying cost price is extremely simple. Just ignore costs of actually creating the original work, ignore any "profit costs", and there you have it! Free is a perfectly fair price for any digital work!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  10. Re:Parent is a troll... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think he's going for 'Funny' karma.
    If you're doing the same, you're not doing it right.

  11. How is this different to any other market? by theolein · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The iPhone software market, like it or hate it, is like any other market. There is competition and only a few are successful. It's no different to the Windows software market or the Mac software market in this this.

  12. turfing by Tom · · Score: 5, Informative

    I refer to my post yesterday.

    Seems it's more than a day, it's a week. This is paid-for-bashing at its worst.

    Seriously:

    In a blog post I take a hard look at the first 24 days of sales data for the first game, Dapple, from Streaming Colour Studios

    You take a "hard look" at one game. And a game, to boot. You might have noticed that the "games" category is by far the largest, thus the fiercest market.

    A friend of mine is an iPhone game developer. He's got three games and four or so small apps in the app store. He's not a millionaire, but from what I hear there's a steady stream of good income. That's seven times the data points of TFA, and still I wouldn't dare to claim that as "the norm".

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  13. surprise by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While it's true that a few select apps are making developers rich, the reality is that most apps don't make a lot of money.

    What a surprise. Not so different from the real world, is it? Where every now and then, some idea goes big and makes someone rich, and for every one such lucky guy, there's a thousand whose ideas never work out.

    What's even the story here? "Some products sell real well, most sell average"? Why not take it further? "Bell curve distribution confirmed for the 4,000th time!"? :-)

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:surprise by KevinIsOwn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Some products sell real well, most sell average"? Why not take it further? "Bell curve distribution confirmed for the 4,000th time!"? :-)

      Sounds more like a power law than a gaussian. In other words, a few games are making most of the money, and then there's a lot of games making the rest of the money (long tail)

  14. Just the beginning, folks by garote · · Score: 5, Informative

    The important thing to take away from this writeup is the fact that, after the author gave a presentation about his game in front of a crowd, he instantly made a handful of sales.

    Anyone relying on (or griping about) their position in the App Store listings as an unfair arbiter of their sales needs to account for that simple phenomenon. There is a world outside the app store; a world that must be reached.

    Compare it to other media forms: What sells movies? The position of their name on the marquee? No. TV trailers, signage, radio spots, web ads, product tie-ins...

    What sells books? Their relative position on the shelf? Not usually. Interviews, book tours, reviews, a good name...

    Without real advertising, iPhone devs are beholden to blind chance when they post their app in the store. The only reason a handful of them have become rich is because they are/were pioneers exploring a shiny new UI and form factor. These rags-to-riches stories will fade away, and the usual approach, of advertising in and around established channels, will reassert itself.

    Also keep in mind that this is a PLATFORM, and it will move and expand, leaving obsolescence in its wake. Like any good platform game, you need to run and jump to keep up.

  15. No surprise by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, a color matching game. How incredibly groundbreaking. And it's only selling for five times the minimum application price. Sorry, but the value isn't there for a game of this simplicity. I've got two games under development, both immensely more complex than this, that I will sell for at most half the price.

    So my appraisal:
    1) Clone of a clone of a clone of the color matching / bubble popping games that can be written in less than a week. No surprise people aren't jumping up and down with excitement, or going out and buying iPhones so they can play this game.

    2) Price is way, way too high for this game.

    I do thank the author for his concise summary of sales though.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:No surprise by N1AK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, a color matching game. How incredibly groundbreaking. And it's only selling for five times the minimum application price. Sorry, but the value isn't there for a game of this simplicity. I've got two games under development, both immensely more complex than this, that I will sell for at most half the price.

      Although I wish you good luck with your two games, I don't think so directly correlating complexity and success is wise. Plenty of junk applications sell very well, and I'd argue that was more about pricing and image than complexity and quality.

      I think the authors blog entry is a useful reminder that the app store isn't a way to print money, and that spending large amounts of cash on developing for it should be considered very carefully.

    2. Re:No surprise by AnalPerfume · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The more complex the app, the more time and money it takes to bring it to market; which means the more money you need to make to break even, let alone start to make a profit. This is always going to tempt you to overvalue your app and turn potential buyers away because it's too expensive; which in turn adds to your woes. By comparison a simple, novel app which is quick to develop can turn a profit much quicker, at a cheaper price tag, which may bring in additional casual buyers.

      All creative people have the problem of being too close to the subject to see it the way others do. If you've had the idea for something, spend weeks mulling over the details, working out how to bring it to life, then months of hard work actually turning it into something you have an emotional attachment to it. People who come across the final product don't have that attachment; all they have is another product on a shelf trying to attract their wallets. What you may see as novel, buyers may see as yet another clone with the twist so subtle that they don't see it, to don't give it a try to get a chance to see it. What you may find fun and addictive may bore people because it lacks something you can't see because you're too attached to it. Others can have a quick game of something and dismiss it as "meh", while you spent months of work on it. This is something all creative people have to accept as just part of the job. One man's trash is another man's treasure. You have to hook people REALLY fast to get them to stay with your product long enough to even start to appreciate it. If the screenshots look like a clone of an old idea with the twist not explained in a way that grabs them it'll often be skipped over.....specially if you charge too much for it.

      I wonder how many developers only plan on making one game and sticking their entire career on it. The music and movie industry seem hell bent on legalizing that model with extensions to copyright laws. I'd imagine that most developers would release a game, then start working on another; unless their creativity does not match their coding abilities and they only have one good idea in them and have just released it....and wondering why the masses ain't bringing down the App Store servers with sales requests. I'd imagine (like any other creative career) that it's a cumulative sales of many titles which makes their living. Games you made 3 years ago may still sell a few copies a month in addition to the 3 or 4 others released since. Does an author stop getting paid royalties on a book after they release a new book? Of course not, it may not be a best seller but they still get paid for each sale.

    3. Re:No surprise by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Informative

      i don't know about iphone, but such a game comes free with windows mobile :-b

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  16. Has step 2 been discovered? by Shag · · Score: 3, Informative

    I thought it was:

    2. ???
    3. Profit!

    But maybe it's

    2. Whine about life on Slashdot.
    3. Profit!

    Anyway, I too look forward to hearing how many Slashdotters will buy something solely because it's linked from here. :)

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
  17. Re:article text by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you do the math, you can see that I need to sell about 9,150 units in the U.S. before I break even on Dapple.

    Then he should have done the maths before spending time developing the app, and either not bothered or worked out a way to reduce costs. Only a few apps get wildly successful and make everyone rich. Budgeting for over 1000 sales on a simple puzzle game running on a single platform is fantasy land.

  18. unles the game has boobies. by cheekyboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Match 1000 boobies to 1000 faces app.

    I doubt apple would approve of this app.

    Easy to code, but an effort to put together the media.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  19. Re:Need feedback for LexLook! by FrkyD · · Score: 4, Insightful
    THIS is the reason many apps aren't selling.

    Look, the appstore is the market, not the advertising channel. Having a market available has simplified the process of getting your app to the user, and made it easier for users to find apps, but that is it. Compared to what things used to be like with Windows Mobile Apps and Symbian, it's a lot easier for me as a user to find what i am looking for, and the process of purchasing is a dream compared to anything in the past for any computing platform I have had.

    But!

    I still have to find out about your app. Which means YOU still have to market it. That isn't Apples job. I rarely rely on the whats hot tabs in the app store. I use references from other web sites, from searches, and from reviews. If you aren't out there doing your best to make sure someone else actually sees and talks about you app, then you have no reason to bitch.

    Uless you consider bitching part of your marketing as the article poster seems to do. I am sure it might work, but considering the fact that he overpriced his app, and also seemed to overspend on something that couldn't reasonably recoup the cash makes me more likely to not by his game.

    And you Mr. Xenodium, despite getting some points for highjacking a thread to sell your app, lose points for not even linking to it in you initial post. If all of the whiney app developers are as incompetent in marketing as you two, it's amazing they have managed any sales at all...

  20. Re:Perceived value by PeeShootr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I couldn't agree more! When you see really amazing games on the iPhone like Zen Bound for $5, how can this developer expect to get $5 for a silly color matching game? If there weren't a ton of others like this for free or $0.99 I could understand, but that is not the case! The dev needs a dose of reality and then needs to drop the price.

  21. No surprise it failed. by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not sure why this is a shocker to anyone, lets look at the list:

    1. Some random guy sees iPhone mania on TV.
    2. Pays some developers to write a game to jump on the bandwagon.
    3. No research is done to see what market segment he should target, no need, iPhone apps are selling like wildfire, just make something and throw it up there!
    4. Person fails to noticing that the wagon has been full for months.
    5. ???
    6. App fails to sell because it isn't special in any way. Competes with several free apps that are arguably more thoughtful.
    7. Guy spamvertises his app on slashdot in an attempt to get picked up and get more sales and cries about his lost money.
    8. Slashdot points out, rather quickly I might add, that he's an idiot.

    If you notice, the one thing thats missing from that list when compared to your typical slashdot list is the 'Profit!' line.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  22. Hey Whiners, the iPhone Market Owes You Nothing by JoelMartinez · · Score: 2, Interesting
  23. I have two apps on the iPhone store. by xevioso · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One, Learn Origami with Origami Mastery, has done OK, staying stable at about 30 copies a day for the first two weeks, then dropping down to about 5-10 per day, many on foreign sites. This was my first app, and so I had no expectations. I was disappointed it didn't sell a billion copies, but I didn't really expect it to, as it had lots of competition. I sell it for 99cents here: http://www.origamimastery.com/ However, the second app really disappointed me. I thought I had a eureka moment, because while there were a billion iFart aps, there was nothing juvenile like iBooger or iSnot. I figured if iFart can make a lot, so can something called iSnot. So I made this great little app, very small, doing all my own design and splitting the profits 75-25 with the developer (normally a bad idea but a good one in hindsight) and developed it in less than a week. We had no direct competitors... It's a funny app whereby you pick a face, hold the phone up to your face facing away and a line of dangling snot, using the accelerometer, comes out, and well, you get the picture. It's funny. Stupid. Guaranteed to make a million bucks like iFart, right? Wrong. Its done worse than my Origami app. Sold maybe 10 a day or less for the past two weeks. I spent money to get it reviewed, and then asked my friends to download and review it, and also randomly bought people drinks at bars to download and review it the first day. I think its a very very funny and clever app: www.isnotapp.com However, the key to success appears to be HEAVY marketing beforehand. The iFart guy, Joel Comm, is an Internet Marketer by trade. That means he has mailing lists and twitter followers in the hundreds of thousands. He knows what he is doing. His competitors do not. There are other things you can do, which I will be doing, like releasing updates to keep yourself at the top of the daily top sellers. In the case of Dapple, one look at the screenshot of the game and the price of the app told me everything I needed to know. The game looks NO BETTER than a 99 cent app. He should have sold it at 99cents. That is his first mistake. Drop it down and his volume will increase dramatically. But he will still never make his 35 grand back. All in all I spent about 1000$ on my development. 325$ for the first apps development costs, 500$ for a mac mini for myself to help with development, and 99$ for applying to the app store as a developer. I will probably make my 1 grand back in a two-three months if all goes well. And that's with a genius app like iSnot doing poorly.

  24. Textbook Case of Small Business Failure by afabbro · · Score: 5, Informative

    The biggest lesson learned in all of this is to not spend $32,000 developing an iPhone game.

    Dapple took me about 6 months to make and had a budget of roughly $32,000 USD. That budget includes: paying my contractors, business expenses incurred during the 6 months of development, and paying myself a very small salary (akin to what I made as a junior front-end programmer when I first started in the industry).

    That's nuts. What did he think - he's launching an entire business around an iPhone color-matching game??? What is this "paying myself a small salary" nonsense? What "business expenses"?

    For this sort of thing, you do most of the dev work yourself or you partner with someone. You keep your day job and the only "business expenses" you should have are a domain somewhere.

    His costs are insane for this kind of project. They should be a tenth of what he incurred. Even at that, he'd have to sell 1,000 units or so to break even. And saying "to break even" speaks volumes about his business naivete. It's not about breaking even. You could have taken that $32,000, put it in the bank at 5%, and made $800 in six months. Instead, you made less than that and now you don't have the $32,000 any more.. He's not comparing opportunity costs.

    Honestly, I would not invest much hard money in such a venture - perhaps if I was doing iPhone dev during the day, I'd work on something on the side at night, or if I had a friend/partner who wanted to team up.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
    1. Re:Textbook Case of Small Business Failure by mmandt · · Score: 2, Insightful
      My Dad taught me as a youngster: "If you can say you learned something, then you came out ahead."

      This guy took $32,000, built a product, launched it, and marketed it. He probably learned as much from this as he would in some class room. Not only did he learn something, but he is sharing what he learned. Its not easy to announce to the world that you were clueless, chased some hype, and took a bit of a beating.

      Sticking $32,000 in the bank is a shameful alternative to growing some balls and jumping out into the "real" world. Next time he gets excited about something, he is likely to take a significantly better approach.

    2. Re:Textbook Case of Small Business Failure by yabos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of iPhone devs are charging $120+/hr for development. He says he did contract some work out but he is a programmer so it's hard to say whether this was the huge cost or not. Even still this game at least looks really really simple to make on the face of it. If you had the artwork done already you could put this together in a matter of a few weeks if you focused on it and don't just do it in your spare time.

      I do wonder if this guy even knew Objective-C before starting this project. If he spent 6 months full time on this I could see that possibly he was first learning Objective-C and then working on the application. If he spent 6 months full time on this without any day job to get in the way I have to wonder what the hell he was doing all day long.

    3. Re:Textbook Case of Small Business Failure by mmandt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My point also remains the same. He learned an important lesson about platform and distribution. If he is a fool for having learned the hard way, then so am I.

      I had build a thin client website building tool that was far superior than anything on the market. I spent a tremendous amount of time on it (years) and spent money on resources. I invented an XML Object Request Broker because none existed and a dozen other technologies to make it work right. Only to discover that I couldn't compete with a simple page builder offered by Yahoo which probably didn't cost more than $15,000 for the initial version.

      This guy tried to create a great color matching game where the market was flooded with other lesser (in his opinion) color matching games. I tried to create a great website builder where the market was controlled by other lesser (in my opinion) web building tools.

      We both got fleeced. In hindsight, it seems easy to call. I believe the lesson's learned is more complex than what you are giving credit. The idea that you can simply launch an application, market it, and make money is very complex farce.

      And yes, there is a "if every bar west of the Mississippi" scenario. Of course, I don't do games, but that is very much the game I play today. Its a game of chess and the customer is the king. Take a long hard look at Microsoft Office. Why do people buy that? Rinse, repeat (in a smaller market segment). You don't learn this game in school. $32,000 is cheap.

  25. Re:article text by mmandt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Budgeting for over 1000 sales on a simple puzzle game running on a single platform is fantasy land.

    I would have to agree with you there. However, I like fantasy land. I have a new truck, a suite of offices, employees, and time to sit and goof off on Slashdot because of my frequent trips there. I launched my company with a product I built myself. The friend who helped me launch was hoping to buy 12 pack of beer off of what I paid him for managing the website & shopping cart stuff. Turned out he got to buy lots and lots of beer. FYI) I did it all without Obama's stimulus package, government loans, or Angel investors. Further, if we had a good economy back in 2002, I wouldn't have done any of it. We need our ups and downs. We need everyone to take risks on their own Dapples. When it works, hire people whose Dapples didn't sell so well.