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Linux Gaining Strength In Downturn

gubm writes "A February survey of IT managers by IDC indicated that hard times are accelerating the adoption of Linux. The open source operating system will emerge from the recession in a stronger data center position than before, concluded an IDC white paper."

63 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. The best things in life... by dov_0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    are often free!

    --
    sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    1. Re:The best things in life... by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whilst it may hold true, I don't think that's what is causing the adoption of Linux. In fact, I would go so far as to be almost sad that this is what causes the adoption - a mass of IT people not that capable of learning the system are going to crop up and potentially turn FOSS into an almost "Windows Admin" type of system. I'd rather see Linux (or BSD) adoption on a wide scale due to the benefits of the systems, not because they are free.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
    2. Re:The best things in life... by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Worse than that I think, is the fact that it seems people are looking at this like F/OSS is a commercial competitor to Sun and Windows et al. What it really means if Linux ends up with a better position in the data center is that Windows or Sun is losing out. Sure, there will be a few people (Redhat et al) who make money from this turn of events, but it's those who will not that should be more important.

      I know that it's cool to say 'hey, Linux is making headway' but it's also true to say that someone else is losing out. One thing is reasonably certain in these times: There are very few companies expanding their IT departments and data centers. It Linux is winning, who is losing? That's the real story because unless Linux totally messes up, they won't get that market share back anytime soon. Say goodbye to the MS business plan. That's what we're really talking about, the slow death of Windows in the data center. Perhaps we should bring in the life support systems now?

    3. Re:The best things in life... by dov_0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps there will be enough stable development in countries which have already or are in the process or adopting Linux in the important places. Schools. When kids use it at school, maybe go on to use it at work etc, that is what they will use at home and that will be the system that seems logical to them.

      You could say that a generation is rising up in the developing world which will be almost Microsoft illiterate.

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    4. Re:The best things in life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quote: "the slow death of Windows in the data center."

      And that would be a bad thing because.... why?

      Keep in mind that, besides Linux being a higher quality product--especially for the data center-- money not spent to prop up the MS business plan is money that stays with the local business/local economy to be spent elsewhere.

    5. Re:The best things in life... by dwhitaker · · Score: 3, Informative

      As more people and companies adopt FOSS, more people will get experience using and administering such systems. Some will excel, some won't. I'm sure there are inept sysadmins in charge of *nix systems now and there will always continue to be.

      If Linux does see more widespread adoption, more software developers will support it with proprietary software that is only on Windows/Mac/both now. Sure, we'll lose some of the advantages of FOSS, but Linux will be more usable. More adoption, whatever the reason, will spur more development for both proprietary systems and FOSS; at this point, I don't think anybody will argue against innovation or jobs.

    6. Re:The best things in life... by Samschnooks · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Linux admin, or any admin jobs for that matter, will become more of a commodity. In other words, the admin job will be a relatively low paying blue collar type of job - not something that a CS graduate would think of doing unless they're hard up. The admin jobs will be for the tech school graduates. Which, I might add, there is nothing wrong with it. Linux and the low costs associated will lower the overhead of businesses, allowing them to operate more profitably and therefore employ higher skilled and educated people to the higher paying jobs.

      Sounds good? No, the real answer is that the lower costs will end up in the CEO's bonus checks while they continually farm out the admin work to third world countries. After all, Linux being free and all, third world countries can educate those folks for very little money and therefore, flood the market with really cheap tech workers.

      We, in the developed World will be cursing the existence of Linux and the rest of F/OSS one day - mark my words.

    7. Re:The best things in life... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, this kind of thing is somewhat rampant already. I recently worked on an embedded Linux system, and the developers moved to Linux from Windows. It certainly proved that Linux is flexible. You absolutely can run a Linux system in such a way that it totally defeats the purpose.

      Their "build system" required you to log in as root or it wouldn't build. To my complete lack of surprise there were flaws in the script that hosed the build machine when run, since the process was running as root. Luckily I was smart enough to run it in a VM, since their is no way I'm building anything as root on my machine. Had I not known any better my system would be messed up, and I would have no idea why.

      The new question to determine if someone is really skilled with computers will not be "do you use Windows or Linux" (or some other secure OS). The litmus test which served me so well is rapidly becoming invalid. It used to be Windows + Education + a_clue = Linux. The new formula will be Linux + Education + a_clue = Real Linux Guy. Basically, the Linux Guy wannabee pool is in the process of growing exponentially.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re:The best things in life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well oracle does run in linux too and is quite on par with MSSQL...

      Obviously evetyone has his own preferences.

    9. Re:The best things in life... by Kjella · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The average user, the average sysadmin and the average developer won't fundamentally change. No matter how they told you in grade school that you can become anything you put your mind do, there's people who can't grok a computer if they'd get Bill's fortune as the prize. Some, for some incomprehensible reason even choose to become sysadmins.

      The only real options are that Linux will adapt to gain wide adoption or it will not have wide adoption. It should be in the cards that if you talk to people that want shiny buttons about the freedom to hack the code and compile your own kernel, you're barking up the wrong tree.

      Why should you be complaining anyway? If 90% became point-and-click Linux admins, who'd he the gurus they'd have to go to when those tools fail them? That's right, you. No longer would you be the sysadmin of some obscure server OS, you'd be the grossly overpaid technical specialist hired it to fix the hard stuff. Oh, what a horrible tradgedy.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:The best things in life... by digitalunity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's possible for a bad admin to make any system insecure, regardless of the operating system. The wizards in Windows don't make it more or less insecure, its the OS and the admins doing that.

      Wizards merely encourage laziness and do not force the admin to have a clear understanding of what it is they're doing. More widespread adoption simply widens the field for admins who really know what they're doing.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    11. Re:The best things in life... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      And if Windows dies in the data center....? So what! Microsoft has $20 billion in the bank, I'm sure they'll have no problems innovating some new way to make up the lost revenue. ;)

    12. Re:The best things in life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree - I don't think it is any one single factor that is spurring the adoption of Linux (If the recession were doing it, why is Apple so strong with their relatively pricey products?). We have the recession, which is contributing to it, but we also had the Vista fiasco which primed people for something different, the debut of several very nice Linux environments (KDE 4, for example) and the move to cloud based computing (Rendering the need for MS Windows secondary to the apps that are run). Add to that the fact that the netbooks running Linux seem to be popular and you have a popular mindset that says "Linux is ready for prime time"...

    13. Re:The best things in life... by /ASCII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I strongly disagree. The high cost and abysmal quality of IT services put a wet blanket on innovation and creativity. Without open source software, the cost of starting up an IT company would be significantly higher; without open source Google, Slashdot, reddit, digg and a thousand other companies would likely not have existed.

      I'm excited to see what cool innovations people will come up with if IT costs are further reduced to nearly nothing.

      --
      Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
    14. Re:The best things in life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And that would be a bad thing because.... why?

      It's not. It's just Balmer posted on Slashdot again...

    15. Re:The best things in life... by goltzc · · Score: 2, Informative

      What features are you talking about? postgres is amazing and even the pgadmin tool is pretty good.

      --
      Our bugs are smarter than your test scripts.
    16. Re:The best things in life... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know that it's cool to say 'hey, Linux is making headway' but it's also true to say that someone else is losing out. One thing is reasonably certain in these times: There are very few companies expanding their IT departments and data centers. It Linux is winning, who is losing?

      The history of economics is continually increasing productivity. Economies abhor what I call 'drag' - unnecessary costs for the same or similiar benefits. Successful companies reduce drag. If, over time, Linux = Windows - licesing costs; to put it bluntly, Linux will win. The customers of the companies win with lower costs. And MSFT joins the buggy whip manufacturers (which I assume they won't, plenty of other software to make other than OSes).

      To argue that propping up Windows (or anything artificially, considering the bailouts) for its own sake is like arguing you create jobs by hiring 100 people to digg ditches and another 100 to filling them. Sure, you're not advancing humanity one iota, and placing a burden on society as a whole, but that busy work sure is keeping a lot of people employed! (People that would otherwise eventually get jobs in still economically productive sectors). BTW, government does this a lot in "job creation", they are called toll booths.

    17. Re:The best things in life... by goltzc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I used to think that's what management wanted to hear too, but when they say what does the license cost and you say $0. The products are almost immediately dismissed as being "freeware" and hence not enterprise quality.

      From my experience management really does love to hear buzz words as in, "This product will leverage the existing synergies in your collaborative workspace to create a global presence".

      Now that might be a little extreme on the buzzword scale but my point is, to management it's all about marketing. Open source projects don't typically have big budget marketing departments built around them.

      What you see is what you get in open source and that doesn't always make a good sales pitch.

      --
      Our bugs are smarter than your test scripts.
    18. Re:The best things in life... by jkrise · · Score: 4, Informative

      Say goodbye to the MS business plan. That's what we're really talking about, the slow death of Windows in the data center.

      Nonsense. Even Ballmer agrees that Linux has always been the undisputed leader in the data center. The downturn will only increase the dominance of Linux.

      "Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux," he said. "How are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don't like it. ... We have some work to do."

      from here:
      http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/151568/ballmer_still_searching_for_an_answer_to_google.html

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    19. Re:The best things in life... by thrillseeker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh I agree. But oracle is even farther from F/OSS than MSSQL is.

      How so? While I agree that Oracle isn't a database - it's a career - one can at least download a free (licensed) operational version that runs under something other than Windows, allowing a developer to, well, develop to a system that will then potentially be deployed on FOSS.

    20. Re:The best things in life... by jkrise · · Score: 2, Informative

      PostgreSQL can handle Petabytes without any problems. And it is much faster than MS-SQL and much simpler to set up and administer, besides.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    21. Re:The best things in life... by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Say goodbye to the MS business plan. That's what we're really talking about, the slow death of Windows in the data center. Perhaps we should bring in the life support systems now?

      You say that as if it's a bad thing. Microsoft's predatory behavior has set the entire industry back by a decade or more. Without them, there is plenty of room for new innovation (as opposed to Microsoft Innovation (tm) which isn't really innovation at all). Companies will spring up to fill market needs, robust competition will be restored or invigorated, people will be employed ... it's a good thing for everyone.

      --
      Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
    22. Re:The best things in life... by AlecC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think, and hope, that it is more a case of the downturn jolting a lot of people out of their ruts. However much you may think or even know that *nix is better than Windows, it is a big decision to change a company from one to the other. In good times, you can afford the Windows tax, and pay it just to avoid the hassle of the changeover. Besides, you busy expanding the business, aren't you? It takes bad times to make you take a better look at the alternatives and to have the time to consider bringing them in.

      The silver lining of recessions is that they prune dead wood. Weak companies go to the wall (unfortunately, sometimes pulling good ones down with them), leaving the survivors healthier when the recession is over. If some of the dead wood is M$ systems installed from sheer conservatism, let us cheer for it.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    23. Re:The best things in life... by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Have you never used anything other than MYSQL?
      Postgres is open source and perfectly capable...
      Oracle is considerably more powerful than MSSQL, and Linux is Oracle's preferred platform these days... Linux can also run on considerably more powerful hardware than windows can (mainframes, supercomputers etc) which is important if you have a huge database.
      Oracle for linux outperforms the windows version by a considerable margin by all accounts too.

      And yes, Oracle isn't free but you'd just be paying for the DB and getting the OS for free.

      I believe Google use MYSQL too, so it must be pretty capable if used correctly.

      When it comes to databases windows is a pretty poor choice, as is mssql since it's not even cross platform and therefore tied to windows.

      If you want to complain about something Linux doesn't do very well, try gaming.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    24. Re:The best things in life... by Eriky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those Windows guys will quickly learn Linux, they are without a job anyway, and when the economy recovers they can start administrating Linux servers. Its like evolution, but in the digital world. Those who adapt survive.

    25. Re:The best things in life... by neomunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was with you until this:

      (People that would otherwise eventually get jobs in still economically productive sectors)

      That is simply not an acceptable assumption any longer (and it never really was). Where are these magical jobs coming from?

      They DO NOT EXIST. Just because YOU and I have food on our tables and a roof over our heads does not mean that everyone else could have the same, if only they would work hard. The trickle-down economics theory is bust because wealth is often HOARDED instead of spent, and even the money that IS spent spends the majority of its time in a corporate cycle of purchasing massively over-priced business services/equipment in order to sell massively over-priced services/equipment to other businesses. Only at the bottom of the funnel (you know, the narrow part) do you get businesses spending money on consumer products in order to make money from the masses. To clarify what I mean, picture the money that is transfered between large business accounts each day compared to how much is spent on payroll. The vast majority of wealth is circulated (and stays) far above the populous' heads. Successful advances in business tech/procedures almost universally involve tipping that balance even further, paying an employee less money (or fewer employees the same amount of money) for the same amount of wealth earned for the company.

      The problem of joblessness cannot be left to the market to fix, there must be active solutions toward that goal. Unfortunately I don't have any really good ideas on how that could be tackled efficiently, the only idea I -DO- have pertaining to the subject would be radical and near impossible to implement so I won't even bother to toss it in to the discussion. Regardless, I feel that it is folly to rely on a wealth-concentrating system to widen wealth distribution (which is what happens when people become employed, even if the term has been branded as Satanic by the media).

    26. Re:The best things in life... by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, there are a lot of people who completely dismiss open source as being "freeware", relating it to the closed source freeware apps you can download for windows, many of which are buggy and unmaintained...

      Some people buy right into the marketing and won't buy anything unless it's come top of a "best of breed" list, meaning the manufacturer has paid a lot of money to have it there...

      But what these people do buy, are commercial products which are actually open source under the hood, because some company has built a product using open source, sometimes disguised it as something completely proprietary, and then spent big money marketing it.
      These same people who won't touch anything that they consider to be "freeware", will happily buy various things like cisco firewalls and cisco call manager without realizing that they run linux.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    27. Re:The best things in life... by miknix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real thing is that auto-configurations and wizards always bring problems.

      Just remember windows, the dialog where you change the ip-address. When you apply your changes, the dialog gets unresponsive for a while and you don't really know what is happening in the background. And notice that changing the IP address can be considered an "atomic" operation.

      Now image some other dialog that is supposed to do a lot more.. It would be a pain wouldn't it?

      That's something that will never happen when you are at a CLI. Even if you have a script for doing a bunch of stuff, you can always know the line where it failed and why it failed.

    28. Re:The best things in life... by umghhh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If my corporation buys services from global player say HP for instance and this in turn gives away whatever flavour linux they currently support then how this is going to cause money staying locally? I mean HP service desks are all over the place and their HQ is thousands KMs away so the money is flowing around or away but not staying?

      Whether windows actually dies is another matter. I think this will not happen or not very soon anyway. All predictions about fast adoption of linux because of it being cheaper have not come true partially because corporate service boys charged a healthy premiums on their linux 'loving' customers. I had problems with that myself too - I had to justify to my box why I wanted to use more expensive product and it was linux that was more expensive than vista installation. The price tags have been set by our IT service support company. If I could install linux box myself of course this would be cheaper but than again maybe against corporate policy too.
      OC when it comes to small business that is able to make decision and switch within days of making it then this OS switch actually may happen. Alas not everywhere and for everybody.
      which is good - we need no mono-culture.

    29. Re:The best things in life... by neomunk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Racist? Probably not. Classist? Maybe. Nationalist? Probably.

      Please be careful when slinging around derisive terms meant to correct derogatory behavior. Applying them too liberally reduces their meaning to nothing more than a meme.

    30. Re:The best things in life... by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Admin work is already farmed out to third world countries and using closed source software won't slow
      down that process...

      Companies already hire extremely cheap low skilled workers, and this has more to do with the microsoft "so easy you don't need expensive trained staff to run it" marketing... The problem is that you can get away with cheap unskilled staff to get a windows network limping along, but it won't work very well and won't be very secure. But this is all part of MS's marketing strategy because these untrained staff wouldn't have been able to set up a unix/linux/novell based network at all.

      As linux becomes easier to use, you will get cheap unskilled workers running it, but the same thing will apply, unskilled workers get a system that limps along while being inefficient and insecure.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    31. Re:The best things in life... by pxlmusic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which (for me) begs the question: How *does* one really become proficient in Linux?

      I can install $Distribution on a spare machine and tinker with basic this and that. Beyond that, what else?

      I am at a loss with a cohesive direction. There are places (locally) where I can take classes on Linux from beginner to "advanced". However, none of the Linux users I know ever took a class; they just seem to "know".

      I'm probably over-simplifying, but I really want to dive into it and really understand it -- but I'm at a loss for any real direction.

      --
      "If for any reason you're not satisfied with our service, I hate you."
    32. Re:The best things in life... by spacefiddle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd rather see Linux (or BSD) adoption on a wide scale due to the benefits of the systems, not because they are free.

      Of course we'd all like a "pure revolution," where the proITariat suddenly recognize the superiority and freedom available to them and throw off their proprietary shackles.

      Realistically, however, how are the adopters going to know the 'benefits of the systems' if they are never exposed to them, never try them in a production environment? Years of partnering with the established regime, familiarity with the systems, the trained acceptance of quirks and flaws as the inevitable price of computing, managers and purchasers who believe you get what you pay for - all this is a pretty high barrier to adoption, being slowly overcome.

      I recently had an experience where we needed a new server up and running ASAP. There was some consternation over the Winserver and client licensing costs, and while various channels were being checked, i kept mentioning - you know the old Woody Woodpecker cartoon where the commentator leans into the frame every scene and says, "If Woody had gone right to the police...?" Well, the goal here was a DB, local use only, pretty light load. I said early on, "If i just installed Linux on this box, it would be up and running by now, for no cost other than my time, and i can do it pretty fast." And i said it again when the first Windows price quote came in. And again when they said how long it would take to get it to us. And again, and again, and again...

      Finally, i was asked to explain this newfangled option to my experienced but older boss-folk. I did so. Finally it was determined that this was not the time to drop a large sum of money on something if there was an alternative, and was asked [brag alert] when i could have it ready, to which i responded "yesterday," having already set everything up: to the raised eyebrows, i explained that it was just the matter of my taking the OS and running the install and setup while working on other things, since, if they decided not to use it, it could simply be blown away with no real loss. They got the point. We've been using it ever since, and this success has enabled me to start introducing more FOSS solutions where appropriate [/brag].

      The moral of this novel: i would dearly love if one day, everyone woke up and said "Hey! We're not falling for any more BS! We're smart, informed people making the best decision for any given situation based on its own merits, and no marketing or FUD shall factor!"

      However, until then, i will happily take advantage of every opportunity to step in and say "there's another way, you know," no matter how many times i have to repeat it. And it really drives the point home about the Free part, too, you know. For the cynical who still tie value to cost, feel free to get a support contract with someone for their product, ey? You help support the model, you might even like the support, and the managers feel like they're getting a professional product.

    33. Re:The best things in life... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps we can pitch it better.

      Management: "How much does it cost?"

      IT: "Red Hat gives it away for free and sells support contracts for $x, but we are not required to purchase support in order to use it.

    34. Re:The best things in life... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Linux being a higher quality product--especially for the data center" - by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 16, @09:15AM (#27209055)

      That's funny, because Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 does, and has done for YEARS now mind you, a great job of being the official disseminator of trade data @ NASDAQ, running into the "fabled 5-9's" of 99.999% uptime for years now, 24x7, via failover clustering... that was back in 2006 (possibly earlier, as that is only the date of the article):

      ----

      NASDAQ Migrates to SQL Server 2005:

      http://windowsfs.com/enews/nasdaq-migrates-to-sql-server-2005

      ----

      (Linux being 'superior to that' is a judgement call, & one that largely depends on the person/team(s) admin'ing it also... this goes for ANY OS out there, not just Windows or *NIX variants)

      As far as 'superiority' of Linux, why is it that you guys (*NIX people here) "beat your heads on the wall" in this posting here @ /., when it came to securing Linux the way you can quite easily in Windows mind you, via AD & Group Policies? See here on that note:

      ----

      Locking Down Linux Desktops In an Enterprise?

      http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/09/03/09/236230.shtml

      ----

      There? Well, I saw a truckload of *NIX folks that just couldn't come up with easy answers to that question!

      "Every OS to its right place" I say in response to your statement I quoted...

      I.E.-> Whatever does the job @ reasonable cost & that your teams of techs/admins can handle also... each OS has its 'niches', where it fits, the best (purely a relative term)...

      APK

      P.S.=> On a closing note: Nothing like "chasing those upward modded posts" eh, fellow A/C? Especially IF you say something "Pro-*NIX" here, you can almost guarantee that the Linux 'leg-humpers' will 'mod you up' for it... that's one of the only "bitches" I have on this site, & I am not alone in it (well, that & discovering some posters here like to maintain alternate registered accounts to mod themselves up with that is -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1147437&cid=27056793 in "The End of Days" ) apk

    35. Re:The best things in life... by neomunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, the idea that I withheld is similar to that, but implementing an offset to the costs to industry.

      Basically, (remember, I KNOW this is nearly impossible to implement) my idea is to automate every job possible. Fire every single person you can. Now, here's the key, instead of giving everyone unemployment checks, you make "student" a paying job (and "teacher" a WELL paying job). Yep, start sending those university checks in the other direction. You'd still have a massive tax burden for industry, but they would be getting a pay-off in access to the largest and most talented pool of prospective employees ever imagined. Hell, we could even build more universities than prisons then.

      There are flaws, and the changes required are nigh impossible due to our societal momentum, but it would be nice. Not as nice as unicorns that shoot laserbeams out of their horns, but hey, I prefer slightly more realistic fantasies. :-)

    36. Re:The best things in life... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Many of us have firsthand experience that backs this up. Now whether
      or not we can go into gory details without being sued for violating
      some sort of NDA is another matter.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    37. Re:The best things in life... by Dunkirk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh, it -sounds- like you're saying that the economic policies of the 80's did NOT produce the prosperity of the 90's and 00's, but that -can't- be, because we know that's what did it. "Trickle down" economics causes the pie to be larger. Sure, the people who create the wealth keep large portions of it, but since they have more of it to spread around, they do. Complaining that it's a small slice of -their- pie is just jealous whining.

      The policies that are going into effect these days are not going to grow the pie. They're just going to slice it into smaller portions. You sound like you like this approach. I don't. We already have lots of history, both in this country and around the world, as to what works and what doesn't. This administration's ideas won't. We know that purely from previous experimentation in the field. I don't understand why so many people can be lulled into thinking that they will. Call it a "feature" of the failed government-based school system, I guess.

      I'm just hoping that the economy turns around on its own before most of the plan goes into effect, and that we have the good sense to repeal it before it ruins the economy for the next 50 years. Fat chance, I know.

      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
    38. Re:The best things in life... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that is a complete myth.

      The pie increased in size by 5 or 6 times.

      The wealthy took 350 times as much pie as they took previously.

      The total amount of pie for 95% of the people in the country declined (and has declined both in wealth and income since 1978).

      One person used to be able to support 3 to 4 people in a household. Now two people barely keep a household going.

      Executives used to make 10 to 20 times as much as line workers. Now executives take 400 times as much, lay of 6,000 people, and suppress raises to the rest of the company for two decades.

      At this point, the wealthy now control so much of the pie, that there is no place they can safely invest their wealth to get the last 5% of the pie from the other 95% of the population.

      And the wealthy overplayed their hand (as they have throughout history and have become such a tiny minority of the population that once again, the majority of the population is going to bone them severely. I'm thinking 70% taxes on the wealthy within 20 years- probably higher. Some pretty studly property taxes coming too. And probably no limitations on mortgage deductions that stops us from subsidizing the wealthy to the tune of $28,000 to $40,000 dollars on their purchase of a three million dollar mansion. A fairer system will be a fixed rate- like $1500 a year max mortgage deduction. But to be honest, on my *reasonably* priced house, I've never gotten over $900.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    39. Re:The best things in life... by Risen888 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I guess I'm one of those guys who you would assume "just knows," but really I often don't. I've been using Linux for seven years, doing it for a living for three, and I'd still put myself in the wide pool labeled "intermediate." But FWIW, here's the "secrets" I know. Prepare to not have your mind blown.

      It's more about problem-solving skills than rote knowledge. If you ignore everything else I say, remember this one, it's the key to the whole thing.

      There are books, and some of them are good (I really recommend this one and this one) but for the most part, the internet is "the book." Learn to use it. To start with, a good search pattern is [four or five word synopsis of problem OR pasted error message] [name of distribution]. Sometimes you'll get a bunch of old crap in the search results in which case you may want to put the version number of the distro at the end. 95% of the time that's your book.

      Fuck all this "spare machine play-around box" nonsense. You want to learn? Fucking learn. Use it every day. When you can't figure out how to do something you want to do, go figure it out. Don't take no for an answer. Figure it out.

      Related to that last, as a rookie I know that often I would run into a situation where I (rightly or wrongly) thought "omg, I screwed everything up, I should just reinstall and start over!" Resist this temptation as much as you can. Do it the hard way.

      Set up a simple home file server using that spare box. Once you've accomplished this, come up with other stuff to do with it.

      Figure out how to use your printer from the command line. That'll keep you busy.

      Really, the unifying theme here is that it's more about learning the problem-solving methods. Set arbitrary tasks for yourself for no good reason and figure them out. Pick something you already know how to do with a GUI and figure out how to do it in the shell. Read read read. Those two books I linked above are excellent.

      And don't let it scare you. If you don't let yourself get pysched out, it's pretty easy stuff.

      Have fun, and godspeed.

      --
      Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
    40. Re:The best things in life... by morghanphoenix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The slow death of Microsoft. They are diversified enought that a total failure in the OS market won't kill MS, and people remembering the rrod next time they release an x-box won't kill them either, plus all the deals they make with developers to keep some of the biggest software titles Windows only is not going to change. Sure a business can run a VM, and at least for my needs a VM of XP is much better than installing a MS OS, but wine/cedega/crossover really isn't up to snuff for the new games so I don't see Windows dying out until we start getting native ports of games. Not everybody is willing to skip the purchase 'till it runs with wine, and then send a letter to the company telling them why they got the sale, so even with the growing popularity of Linux for home use I don't see major game studios getting a clue anytime soon.

    41. Re:The best things in life... by jc42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All predictions about fast adoption of linux because of it being cheaper have not come true partially because corporate service boys charged a healthy premiums on their linux 'loving' customers.

      Oh, I dunno about that. A few months ago, I ordered the hardware for a new "desktop" system from a local computer assembler, and since I ordered it without the default Vista OS, I got a discount of a few hundred $$$. While talking about it with a rep over the phone just before delivery, he asked what I intended to install on it. I said "The latest Ubuntu release", and he said "We can install that for you, for no extra charge." I said "Huh?", and he said "Yeah; we've found that Ubuntu always installs quickly, with no problems at all. Give us an hour, and we can have it all set up for your." I told him "OK", and I got it with Ubuntu running just fine.

      (Well, OK, there was a problem: They forgot to tell me the password that it wanted when I booted it. They were very apologetic about that. They were even more apologetic when I told them that, since they were closed when I got it home, I'd booted a handy knoppix briefly to mount the root partition and set the root password to something I knew. ;-)

      I do sorta suspect that they wanted to do it as a training exercise for their installer guys, as a response to a good number of customers wanting that system installed. But no matter; the fact is that a local system builder took the attitude that "The customer is always right", and wanted their people to be able to install whatever the customer wanted.

      Anyway, this one company didn't charge a healthy premium on a linux-loving customer. They said "We can do that for you for no extra charge." And, needless to say, I told a number of other local friends about it, probably resulting in a few more sales.

      YMMV, of course.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  2. Linux on the desktop 2009 ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The year of linux on the desktop is finally here!

    1. Re:Linux on the desktop 2009 ! by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe id will port Duke Nukem: Forever to Linux as a tribute to the up and coming market dominance.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:Linux on the desktop 2009 ! by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Funny

      3D Realms just announced Duke Nukem Forever was to be released in the Year of the Linux Desktop.

  3. Funny... by ZarathustraDK · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find it morbidly funny somehow that companies have to experience poverty themselves before they see the same benefits of Open Source as some third world countries have already been aware of for years.

    --
    If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
  4. Not a great survey by abigsmurf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A survey of 330 IT Managers makes for questionable results as, although it doesn't state the sampling method, it suggests 'these are just the people who could be bothered to reply to surveys we sent out' rather than going for a representative sampling.

    It's headline grabber is from a flawed type of question : "do you plan to...". The trouble is "I you plan to..." isn't the same as "there are currently plans drawn up to...". You're essentially getting a non-commital 'yeah probably' response.

    It's also linking two unrelated questions: "are you planning on increasing linux usage?" and "are you cutting your budget". Whilst their may possibly be links between the two in some cases, it would be a logical fallacy to assume that companies are switching to linux because of budget cuts.

  5. Re:Sad by dov_0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why sad? Which power company do you use? Was price a factor? Sure it was! When did you last change your phone company or plan? Got a better offer from a competitor?
    People make choices on price every day, but if Linux was considered to not be ready for stable business use yet, the price would not entice. Call the economic downturn an extra incentive to take the plunge.

    --
    sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
  6. The irony is... by tjstork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That one might think that the very same recession that increases interest in Linux might well put many of the leading vendors out of business.

    Novell's operating margin and profit margins are both negative, according to e-trade. Sun Microsystems looks to be in big trouble, as usual.

    But, on the other hand, Red Hat did well last year, so I guess Linux fans should keep their fingers crossed as their earnings are due on the 25th of March. Oracle is also doing ok and their earnings are due out the 18th.

    IBM is totally kicking ass right now, EPS wise.

    So... you could lose Sun Microsystems and maybe Novell, but you would still have Oracle, Red Hat and IBM to fund OSS development, and, of course, Google.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:The irony is... by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's one of the biggest advantages of Linux and OSS in general, it's not controlled by a single company so the actions of a single company don't screw everyone over...

      Look at the damage done by a bad windows release (vista) compared to a bad release of a given linux distro... If one linux vendor comes out with an unwanted version and try to stop support for the previous version that people wanted to use instead, those customers could just move to another distro.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  7. IBM, Dell and HP seem to agree.... by jkrise · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Tomorrow, in an Indian city where I live... IBM, HP and Dell are showcasing their Open Source operations in an event sponsored by PC Quest magazine. There is a hige glut in Open Source adoption (mainly in the servers and storage segment) in recent times in India. I guess the picture is the same elsewhere as well.

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  8. Re:Sad by neomunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Solely?

    Please. Linux wouldn't even be a consideration if it wasn't up to the task at hand. The only effect this is having is to make businesses rethink the whole "proven technology" sales pitch in favor of actual cost-effectiveness studies that haven't been done simply due to institutional momentum.

    All this is going to do is bring intelligent IT planning into vogue, and make people take a look at system performance/applicability rather than chasing a corporate logo around.

  9. No it's not, that's how engineering works by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Engineers will always adopt the lowest total cost option because that's what they do. The old saying used to be "an engineer is someone who can do for sixpence what a handyman can do for a pound" - 2c versus 1$ in US terms.

    Those of us who were involved, even peripherally, in metal bashing in Europe during the 90s may remember "Herr funfzehn prozent" - the guy from Opel who would guarantee you a supply contract if you could undercut his present supplier by 15% on price, which included warranty and quality costs. One German company found a way to make fuel injector casings by deforming metal rather than by cutting, resulting in a 50% cost saving. I don't recall anybody saying "What a pity Opel decided to use a cheaper identical product rather than a more expensive one". What they said was "Great, we have a long term contract, a patent and an unassailable technical lead."

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:No it's not, that's how engineering works by TiloB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't recall anybody saying "What a pity Opel decided to use a cheaper identical product rather than a more expensive one". What they said was "Great, we have a long term contract, a patent and an unassailable technical lead."

      Are we talking about the same Opel that lost the quality race in Germany in the 90's in all fields? The same Opel that is almost certainly bankrupt no later than Q2 2009 because we do not like to buy their cars anymore?

  10. The new frugality by MarkWatson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have recently been writing about what I call the "new frugality." With an estimated 40% of the world's (fake and inflated) wealth gone in the last year, it is finally becoming obvious to many more people, companies, and government that all expenditures need to be judged on value (preferably long term).

    Unfortunately for me, virtually all of my recent consulting work has been taking open source projects, making a few customizations or enhancements, and designing a good deployment strategy. On one hand, this is not good because my revenues are down and I enjoy from-scratch development work. On the other hand, this is good because the profitability of my customers makes my future revenue streams more stable.

    Linux, web platforms + frameworks, etc. all make IT more relevant because they increase the value to cost ratio.

  11. YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let's all hope things continue to go down the drain so the Linux base may grow!

    Wait...

  12. Not just servers - should grow on desktops too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This week a relative gave a desktop running Ubuntu to his kids following a recommendation by a computer store owner "ubuntu is best for kids". Yes! This after having a bunch of worm infested unusable windows & vista laptops lying around his home for months! Shows linux has reached a level where it is very much usable by regular folks.

  13. A lot of it has to do with Linux improving by bigtrike · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been using linux for 14 years now and for most of that time it just has not been quite ready for the masses. The Ubuntu team has made gigantic leaps in making the OS easily configurable and consistent, while the OpenOffice people have provided software which makes it compatible with formats which are necessary for business use. Sure there are still some quirks here and there, but in my opinion they are no harder to deal with than any of the commercial operating systems.

    The economic downturn might have something to do with it, but it's only one reason why we're seeing it adopted more.

    1. Re:A lot of it has to do with Linux improving by Totenglocke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure there are still some quirks here and there, but in my opinion they are no harder to deal with than any of the commercial operating systems.

      Actually, I find them less of a pain to deal with. Why? If something (say playing flv's) doesn't work 100% right all the time on Linux, it's not that big of a deal because it's free. However on Windows, I get rather annoyed because I paid good money for that product.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
  14. The problem is not Linux, really by jopet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have been using Linux for many years nearly exclusively now and everything I need an OS to do is done quite well by Linux.
    The problem is that hardware companies still do not provide support and drivers. And that really pisses me off, increasingly so, since the number of gadgets, devices, peripherals one would like to attach to one's computer has been increasing.
    I am sick and tired of getting "sorry, Linux not supported" canned text responses to my inquiries.
    Developers do a great job to provide what these companies should provide, but Linux users should really show these guys a bit better that they need to do their homework.

    I am planning to buy a Laptop and a mobile phone soon: the laptop company will force me to buy Windows and make no statements about hardware support and the mobile phone company explicitly told me that "sorry Linux is not supported" and not even was able to inform me if I could mount the memory card as an USB drive.

    These companies suck but they won't change until a really big number of Linux users lets them know how much they suck.

  15. Re:Sad by neomunk · · Score: 2

    I'm not saying that linux insinuates intelligence, I'm saying that looking at your options and choosing based on cost effectiveness is intelligent. The fact that Linux is involved at all has nothing to do with the principles I was talking about except in as much that Linux fits the bill regarding this particular situation. Some organizations have apparently found it to be the best option after considering multiple routes (evidenced by the fact that they had to switch from something else in the first place), so I guess that does fit the description 'intelligent' that I offered in some particular cases. Are you insinuating that Linux CANNOT be an intelligent decision?

    I was speaking to the example, but I'm actually talking about a larger trend, extending far outside the IT industry. Companies in every sector are going to have to step back and look at both their processes and prejudices and do some actual honest-to-goodness cost-benefit analysis in order to keep anything resembling a healthy bottom line. The fact that there exists an alternative process/product that may be a good fit for their business that is cheaper and less restrictive than their current setup should be highlighted in any intelligent business strategy, and researched for implementation consideration.

  16. Re:Not just servers - should grow on desktops too by jamesmcm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, but it's quite easy to infect Windows by accidentally clicking an ad or something. It doesn't necessarily mean the kids are watching Backdoor Sluts 9 :P

  17. can we please stop by nimbius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    calling this an "economic downturn." it didnt work for bush, it didnt work for the fed, and its always been a recession. stop candycoating.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.