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Internet-Caused Mistrials Are On the Rise

The NYTimes is running a tip-of-the-iceberg story about how the age of Google is resulting in more mistrials as the traditional rules of evidence, honed over many centuries, collide with the always-on Internet. Especially when jurors carry the always-on Internet in their pockets. (We discussed one such case recently.) "The use of BlackBerrys and iPhones by jurors gathering and sending out information about cases is wreaking havoc on trials around the country, upending deliberations and infuriating judges. ... Jurors are not supposed to seek information outside of the courtroom. They are required to reach a verdict based on only the facts the judge has decided are admissible, and they are not supposed to see evidence that has been excluded as prejudicial. But now, using their cellphones, they can look up the name of a defendant on the Web or examine an intersection using Google Maps, violating the legal system's complex rules of evidence."

44 of 414 comments (clear)

  1. judges oinstructions have always banned this by peter303 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its just they have adapt these orders to be extremely explicit about the new kinds of communication. Face it, the average juror may not be that sharp and may not realize it until told.

    1. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by gnick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Face it, the average juror may not be that sharp and may not realize it until told.

      I think that the bigger issue is that the average juror may just not give a shit about the judges instructions.

      Frankly, if I want to know the details about a case, why would I trust the media (who are digging deep and trying to sensationalize trivial details in order to keep me from changing the channel) any more or less than the lawyers (who are digging deep and trying to distort facts to try to "persuade" me to vote in their favor)? When you're dealing with bias everywhere, you're tempted to just collect as much data as you can - Even if you're instructed not to and know that it's "wrong".

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by Abcd1234 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Frankly, if I want to know the details about a case, why would I trust the media (who are digging deep and trying to sensationalize trivial details in order to keep me from changing the channel) any more or less than the lawyers (who are digging deep and trying to distort facts to try to "persuade" me to vote in their favor)?

      Because the lawyers are on opposing sides, and so the balance of the evidence they bring forward should produce a complete picture (unless they're colluding or something). There's simply no way you, with a blackberry, are going to be able to find evidence relevant to the case that the two parties won't already have brought forward (unless they, or the investigators in the case, did a truly terrible job).

      The *only* evidence you'll gain access to is that which was ruled inadmissable by the judge. But that evidence is inadmissable for a reason. Who are you to decide whether or not you'll abide by that ruling? I mean, jebus, those rulings are made for a reason!

    3. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But that's just it, you're not dealing with bias "everywhere". You're dealing with two very specific biases, the prosecution and the defence. And (in theory) they're supposed to cancel out, and you can work out the "truth" by seeing both sides of the story. You're absolutely not dealing with bias in the media, because you're not bloody well consulting with the media during the trial. If you're listening to the media at all, you are, as they say, Doing It Wrong. And your proposed solution to this Doing It Wrong is to further compound your error by collecting as much data as you can from other biased sources. You don't avoid bias by seeking out more bias.

    4. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The rules are in place to prevent you from making your decision based on that information. You know the whole rule about illegal search and seizure? If you make your decision based on knowledge obtained in an illegal search and publicized in the media, when it was clearly illegal and prohibited at trial, you remove one of the constraints preventing us from descending into a police state. If the police can get convictions through arbitrary, illegal searches, they will. Even if you are innocent, arbitrary illegal searches could tie you to any number of crimes through circumstantial evidence. The rules don't just protect the defendant, they protect our whole system of justice from going out of control.

      Does your sense of curiosity outweigh that?

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    5. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by AnnoyaMooseCowherd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's to stop either side in a case disseminating plausible but fake information around sites that rank highly in Google for searches relating to the case?

      In this way a jury member that is looking there for "all the information at their disposal" could be significantly prejudiced without the other side being aware.

      Surely this is one of the reasons why such rules exist?

      --

      This [ ] left intentionally [ ]
    6. Re:judges oinstructions have always banned this by Tanktalus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I personally despise the idea of "inadmissible" evidence. Optimally, the court is looking for the truth but an environment where critical information can be thrown out because of a technicality it is inherently flawed in finding said truth. The information that should be inadmissible is false information.

      "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, we are going to ignore the fact that the accused was found at the scene of the crime with the bloody knife in his hand standing over the victim on the grounds that the arresting officer hit him with his night stick too many times...."

      Right, because officers beating someone too many times would never take a homeless man, or other so-called "undesirable" and frame them?

      Hearsay is false information because its authenticity can't be proven. "Bob told Sue who told Marge who told Sam who mentioned to my best friend's aunt's sister that he heard that the defendant did it." WTF? People are generally trusting, and juries would get tainted by this. It's thrown out for good reason, though the media is more than happy to print anything sensational.

      Information gained by torture, or any other undue pressure, is also thrown out (though why evidence gained from 16-hour "interrogations" is admissable, I don't know). Entrapment is thrown out. Time and again, information that is thrown out is false, even if it happens to be truth. That's what inadmissible means. Stuff that naive people would believe, when the logic of the situation has failed.

      Yes, it could be that the police illegally raided a house and found some sicko with child porn lining the walls. But that invasion of privacy is "false". They could have just as easily raided any other random house and broken the door of someone who was perfectly innocent, and thus, we, as a society, have determined that it is better for one person to go free than for everyone to live in fear of the police knocking down their doors.

  2. Easy solution by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every juror is searched every day for any electronic device. No cell phones, no Blackberrys, no nothing. If the rules of court allow it, they get pencil and paper. Otherwise, they sit and listen.

    This does not preclude someone from going home and looking up information, but it does solve the issue of doing things in court you shouldn't be doing while on a jury.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Easy solution by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are no requirements that they are literate or law abiding

      Well I can't speak to the 'literate' requirement but it is generally understand that you need to be able to understand and communicate in the English language. You are dead wrong on the not needing to be law abiding too. A criminal record disqualifies you from jury service in every single state that I'm aware of.

      do you really regard the people living anywhere in your county to be your "peers"?

      I regard a randomly selected pool of 12 citizens more as my peers than I would some appointed judge or lawyer who may have a political agenda to advance. There are flaws in the jury system but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Easy solution by Crazy+Man+on+Fire · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When I was called up for jury duty last summer, I had to surrender my cell phone before going through the metal detector. I think other electronics were prohibited as well. Seems like this would be pretty simple to stop by a small rules change at the court house. Just ban cell phones and similar devices.

    3. Re:Easy solution by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I take it you've never been on a jury. Do you have any idea how dull jury duty is? I was on a month long trial last summer and it was tedious and awkward. We all had very little in common and the one thing we did have in common was off limits for conversation.

      It's difficult enough to get people to ditch work for a tiny stipend, imagine knowing that over the period of the trial that one's going to be bored out of ones mind during the many points where the jury isn't needed.

    4. Re:Easy solution by jonnythan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The thing is that they're not supposed to read the newspaper. For one thing, it's relatively easy not to read the newspaper. And for another, the newspaper doesn't contain even a minute fraction of the info that can be found on Google and Wikipedia in 10 seconds.

      I can get home from that day's proceedings and have Wikipedia summaries of the law, tons of background info on the defendant and plaintiff, and every news article about the case ever printed in about 2.5 minutes using the internet. How are you going to research case law about employment contracts from home without the internet?

      Go read the article. It covers all this.

    5. Re:Easy solution by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I myself have always wanted to do my civil duty and serve on a jury but know that I will never be able to because of some stupid stuff I did when I was young.

      There's the foolish indiscretions of youth, and then there's felonies.

    6. Re:Easy solution by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Books come to mind. Besides, there's nothing that says you can't read online stories or news events. Just not what case you're deciding on. Are you saying you and others lack self-control so that for one month you can't not look at a news article related to your case? (ignore the double negative)

      Of course, as the original article relates, the obvious answer is yes. Apparently people lack self-control, and common sense, to not read or listen to any news story about the case they are deciding on or even cases similar to the one you are deciding.

      If the fact that the supposedly most intelligent creatures on the planet can't control themselves for one month to not look at something they aren't supposed to look at, then not having access to electronic devices is the price one must pay.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    7. Re:Easy solution by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is the problem with the system, which explicitly fills large amounts of time with testimony of little or no real value to the case.

      Most trials aren't really about "truth" as much as about being "fair". And what is "fair" is totally stacked against the state, and in favor of the defendant.

      And people like OJ are free because Furman said the N word (slight over simplification). That's the system. Everyone knows OJ did it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:Easy solution by jbolden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mark Furman perjured himself on the stand and the defense showed that he had violated the law as a matter of course. Obviously evidence he collected needed to be questioned. The prosecution should have double and triple checked the evidence, and had more of it. A murder trial should not come down to a single glove.

    9. Re:Easy solution by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The worst part is, the Jury is supposed to be a passive box that just absorbs whatever information the lawyers wish to provide. If you use your brain and start coming up with questions of your own, well, tough because you're not allowed to ask them. Even if one of the lawyers is completely incompetent and missing all sorts of obvious points, you're not allowed to do anything. It is your duty to hang that fellow just because his public defender barely even knows his name, much less his case.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    10. Re:Easy solution by Mikkeles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      'And what is "fair" is totally stacked against the state, and in favor of the defendant.'

      Yes; the State only gets to make the laws, the rules of evidence, appoint the judges (at least at the higher levels), have a very large group of investigators working specifically for them, and unlimited time and budget, while the accused has a whole lawyer and a gumshoe.

      Totally unfair!

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    11. Re:Easy solution by gclef · · Score: 3, Funny

      you're not allowed to do anything

      Of course you are...they just don't want you to know that you are. (Hint: google "jury nullification" some time.) (Hint #2: those two words are a really fast way to get thrown off a jury.)

    12. Re:Easy solution by jerAzevedo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is precisely how the law is supposed to be.

      The United States constitution is specifically designed to give the defendant an edge in court. The founding fathers believed that it's better to let a guilty man run free than let an innocent man be found guilty.

      Hence all the principles about innocent until proven guilty etc. This is a very important cornerstone of our country and sadly it seems a lot of people don't understand this. A lot of people would rather lock up almost anyone who gets put on trial just to make sure that all the guilty are in fact found guilty. The problem of course is that you end up locking up more innocent people than you do guilty people.

    13. Re:Easy solution by noidentity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And people like OJ are free because Furman said the N word (slight over simplification). That's the system. Everyone knows OJ did it.

      Everyone? I've never been to the city he lived in, nor was I in the courtroom. I'd rather have some guilty people go free than have an innocent person be put in prison.

    14. Re:Easy solution by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "So let me get this straight: you want to subject me to mind numbing boredom, for little more than the cost of parking and a sandwich? It's little wonder everyone does whatever they can to get out of it. Frankly, it's offensive that you think my time is worth so little."

      I can see your point, and I used to think JUST that same way.

      But, as I've started over the past years, to really start to pay attention to what's happening in this country, with rights being nullified, changes to laws, expansion of laws, learing more of what I should have been taught in civics class.

      I'm thinking the opposite now, in that...do YOU really consider your civic duty to be so worthless? Do you find that the principals for handing out justice (which you or someone you know could easily be on the wrong end of a trial) so worthless, that it isn't worth sacrificing a little of your time and money, to participate....and try to lend (hopefully) an intelligent ear and brain to try to help decide a fellow citizens fate?

      Worst case scenario...YOU are falsely accused of something that would mark or ruin you for life, or deprive you of your liberty or very life.

      Would you want someone like YOU on your jury....sitting there bored, not paying attention, pisseed about missing work, and just wanting to vote whatever way will get you out of there the fastest?

      Something to ponder.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Easy solution by Varitek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The founding fathers believed that it's better to let a guilty man run free than let an innocent man be found guilty.

      And that should be trivially obvious too - it doesn't take a complicated debate on ethics. When a guilty man is found not guilty, a guilty man goes free. When an innocent man is found guilty, an innocent man is punished and a guilty man goes free.

    16. Re:Easy solution by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Funny

      Last time I reported for Jury Duty they wouldn't even let me bring an iPod into the building, let alone anything with Internet access...I guess it's a state-by-state thing.

      You're right, it's definitely worse here in Texas. Last time I was on a jury, they wouldn't let me bring my gun into the courthouse.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  3. It's not the internet - it's morons by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The internet just makes it easier and faster for morons to display their stupid. In the old days, that same jackass who just had to twitter about the trial he's on would have been knocking back beer in a local bar and going on about the trial.

    1. Re:It's not the internet - it's morons by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was my thought as well. How do you blame technology for some jackass failing to take his civic responsibility seriously?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:It's not the internet - it's morons by lymond01 · · Score: 4, Funny

      How do you blame technology for some jackass failing to take his civic responsibility seriously?

      With technology, he's a more efficient jackass.

    3. Re:It's not the internet - it's morons by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, actually, what I meant was "their stupid."

      I didn't want to say that the internet makes it easier for them "to display that they are stupid" which is the paraphrase for your "correction." I was using "their stupid" as a replacement for "their stupidity." I'm making use of a language in a slightly non-standard way, as a conscious decision.

      Thanks, though.

  4. I've done jury duty. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I carried my mobile phone all the time, and used it in the common area to talk to my girlfriend, check my email etc.

    I had access to the internet through a wireless hotspot, and I read /. and The Register, NotAlwaysRight.com and other chod websites, and chatted with some other jurours.

    I was told that the case had to be decided upon by the edivence heard in court, and that I wasn't to discuss the case outside of the court room or deliberation room. So I didn't. It was that simple.

    It's not a question of the rules needing to be changed, it's the need for people to follow them. If they don't, they tarnish the legal process and the people will lose faith. Trial by Jury will become Trial by Media, and we all know that they are TOTALLY unbias.

    As usual, this is an education problem, not a rule problem. As IT folk, you should know that the answer is almsot always "educate the user" not "restrict the user".

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  5. So.. you're telling me that by reading /. by DirtyUncleRon69 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can get out of jury duty?

    --
    They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    1. Re:So.. you're telling me that by reading /. by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Funny

      Only if you were sitting on a jury judging a RIAA trial or Hans Reiser ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  6. Re:So change the rules by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I was in a jury, I'd be very interested in the relevant case law.

    The problem is that as a member of the jury it isn't your job to look at the case law. You are supposed to be a finder of fact, i.e: did the defendant commit this act. It's up to the judge to review the case law and if he does a piss-poor job of it then the defendant has grounds for appeal.

    you can't block people off from information any longer.

    Actually if they wanted to they could.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  7. Re:So... by abigsmurf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because people are not experts on a subject matter.

    It's like self diagnosis. If you look up your symptoms you could find that you have a mild cold, You could also discover that you 'have' any number of exotic deadly diseases. It takes a trained doctor to be able to ask the right quests and examine you and narrow it down to the most likely disease.

    Lawyers and judges are skilled at knowing what is and isn't relevant to a case, at knowing how to get vital information from an expert. If you've looked up information that has been left out of a case, there may be a reason it's been left out. The defence might have chosen to leave out a piece of evidence you think would prove innocence deliberately because it carries unforeseen implications.

    If you look at someone accused of murder and look up that he has previous convictions for violent assault, that would make it seem more likely he was a murderer. However a judge may view that the assault charges were simple drunken brawls but the murder was planned, cold and calculated. The drunken brawls aren't related enough to the present case to justify the impact they'd have on the jury.

  8. Re:I didn't get how that was supposed to work by ChromaticDragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I imagine one thing that makes the judge qualified to judge what evidence is permissible is a better understanding of the issues (and case law and history) related to things like the 4th amendment.

    It may be a "fact" that drugs were found in the defendant's car. This "fact" may be deemed inadmissible if 4th amendment rights were violated. It is possible that despite this the defendant was indeed guilty. But it is also possible corrupt cops planted the "evidence".

    I imagine there are a slew of things like this. So although I would chafe under restrictions preventing me from doing basic research to better understand things related to a particular case, there's no need to disrespect a judge's role here.

  9. Re:I didn't get how that was supposed to work by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They say it's supposed to be a jury of your peers, but then they say that the Judge should have absolute control over the information the Jury can consider when reaching it's verdict. That kind of defeats the point, right?

    A jury of your peers is a jury of people like you and not, say, a group appointed by the government, or only rich people, or just the judge.

    What makes a judge so smart he can decide to withhold information and outside consultation from Jurors, when we normally would have that available to us when making decisions in real life.

    That is part of his job. There are facts that would sway the jury via emotion that should not be considered in the case at hand.

    The judge has control over the information available to the jury because the jury is only supposed to consider the information that is relevant to the case. Outside information may prejudice the jury against one party or the other. Consider a case where one party has convictions for a different kind of crime many years ago, say marijuana possession. The person is arrested for petty theft. Should convictions for possession be admissible in the current case? That is what the judge decides.

    How about a case where a woman is charged with a crime and in the past lost her children to Child Protective Services. Should the fact that her children are in foster care be considered in her current case?

    How about a case against someone many believe killed two people and was acquitted? Should that case be introduced? It could cause members of the jury to vote guilty, not for the allegation in the case, but rather for the case he has already been acquitted of.

    And such jury tampering could just as easily be prevented by monitoring communications and arresting people who are trying to manipulate the outcome for personal gain.

    Who is going to monitor, for how long, and how? And, what exactly is personal gain? What if someone does it to send the defendant to jail because he does not like the defendant? Or, the defendant's wife? Or, tries to get the defendant off for similar reasons? What if one wants to just tarnish the record of one of the attorneys?

    One thing to keep in mind is that most people are terrible at determining what is relevant to making a decision and, as a result, make bad decisions.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  10. Re:So change the rules by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, this is another "information wants to be free" issue. I can understand asking jurors to not Google about the specific people involved in the case, but to prevent them from looking up general information is absurd. If I was in a jury, I'd be very interested in the relevant case law.

    The jury isn't the trier of law, that's the judge's job. The jury is the trier of fact. Any application of case law independently by a juror, wherever they derived the knowledge and however correct it is, would be misconduct. The jury is to determine the facts, not to apply their own understanding of the law. This is important, because the judge articulates and applies the law, and that articulation is subject to review on appeal. A silent, unexplained application of law by a juror (and, a fortiori, multiple of them by different jurors) cannot be effectively reviewed on appeal because no one knows what it is. The deference given to the juries decision on points of fact (it being overruled on appeal only if the evidence could not reasonably support the conclusion found) is entirely dependent on the premise that the jury is just following the instructions they are given and determining the facts in accordance with those.

    That's not to say the rules couldn't be changed, but these aren't just peripheral rules -- to change the rules on what jurors can do upends a lot of the fundamental principles of the jury system. (And that's only dealing with the aspect of the trier of fact vs. trier of law role; then there is the whole question of how they perform the role of trier of fact, and the issue of excluded evidence, which often directly involves the Constitutional rights of the people in court, and Constitutional limits on powers of government.

    It's the age of the Internet, you can't block people off from information any longer.

    To an extent, the rise in mistrials is a result of it being easier to detect the kinds of violations that people engage in. It's a lot easier for a party to a case to find out and bring to a judge's attention juror misconduct that consists of or is announced in internet postings than when its just talked about around a watercooler.

  11. The Internet will save our judicial system. by spinninggears · · Score: 5, Informative

    Having served on several juries, a number of misconceptions need to be cleared up: You can ask questions. The judge may not like it, but if you submit it properly, do not discuss it with fellow jurors, it might be allowed. The right question can completely screw things up for the prosecution or defense, so you will not be thanked. Juries violate all sorts of instructions all the time, and outside info is part of the game. Getting outside information puts pressure on the legal system to do things right, and they don't like that. I do not recommend causing a mistrial, but at the same time, a juror cannot be expected to remove their brain will serving. During one trial that I was a juror for, the prosecution put on a police officer who stated something that was patently not true. The freeware public defender did not challenge it. I was faced with a dilemma -- quickly verify my correct knowledge (just in case I remembered wrong) or go with the police testimony, and convict an innocent man.

    1. Re:The Internet will save our judicial system. by geekoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "legal system to do things right, a..."

      Bull.

      outside information can prejudice a juror. The role of juror is to come to a conclusion based on the allowed 'facts' in that court room.

      If the internet was an unimpeachable source, then we could have a nice discussion about looking into it and it's impact on the criminal system. Since it is not, then you have jurors as likely as not getting bad information.

      If it isn't challenged, then it is true for that court room.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:The Internet will save our judicial system. by spinninggears · · Score: 4, Informative

      The defendant claimed he had knowledge of some of the facts of the case because he had seen it on television. The prosecution, through a police officers testimony, claimed that the specific information could not have been in the television report, because TV crews were "kept back". I, however had seen the same report as the defendant, and had the same memory of the evidence as the defendant. The public defender was out of investigative money (in my county they are give a flat amount, if they exhaust it, too bad). I did not violate the judges instructions to not use outside info by retrieving the video on-line, instead I asked a question in writing, that woke up the public defender, who did it instead. At this point, the floodgates were opened, the police began having to retract most of their testimony (which was fabricated). A couple of months later, a judged kicked 2 yrs worth of convictions on a number of people arrested in the same "gang crackdown", citing police misconduct.

  12. Check brain at the door? by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nothing outside the courtroom should influence your decision in court.

    Except that I come into the courtroom with 41 years of real-world experience & education which may or may not be approved by the judge, which may include direct knowledge of relevant laws, and which does include the knowledge that some judges will stifle relevant facts which may throw the case. As a juror, I am not merely a pawn in the game, I am (and intend to remain as relevant) an informed intelligent citizen who holds a 1/12th stake in soveriegnty over the case at hand. Not only are the facts presented up for evaluation by the jury, but the law itself and even the judge are subject to the jury (save only for plainly egregious verdicts). The defendant's freedom, and perhaps life, is at stake - as juror, I owe him more than meek submittal to a judge's biased orders and lawyer's incompetence or ulterior motives. To the officers of the court (attorneys included), the defendant is expendible; the jury should not concur.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Check brain at the door? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that I come into the courtroom with 41 years of real-world experience & education which may or may not be approved by the judge, which may include direct knowledge of relevant laws, and which does include the knowledge that some judges will stifle relevant facts which may throw the case

      I can smell the hubris from my office.

      What about things you "know" that are incorrect? Maybe you read something that was incorrect, and now you believe a falsehood to be true?

      You, like many slashdotters (at times myself included), need to check your ego at the door.

      Your attitude presents a danger to the fairness of the justice system, since as a juror, you would opt to supercede your personal opinion over the laws of the state and the legal administration of those laws in the courtroom. Please make sure you make your viewpoints known during jury selection so that counsel can (rightly) remove you from the jury pool for your refusal to comply with the legal system.

      It's pretty common for geeks to think they know better than everyone else, and sometimes this may even e true... I just think when you're dealing with something as important as someone else's life/freedom, it's time to get off your high horse and play the role the justice system is designed to have you play.

      If you think a judge is throwing a trial, then I'm sure the defense counsel/prosecutorial counsel feel the same way, and we have system DESIGNED to deal with this (appeals process). It is not your right, or your role, as a juror to decide to disrupt a legal proceeding by playing by your own rules.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Check brain at the door? by ctromley · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Jurors need to act responsibly, no question. Twittering on a case in process is irresponsible. As expressed above though, responsibility should also extend to standing up against stupid rules. Example (sorry, can't cite a source): There was a murder case where the victim was stabbed to death and the defendant was found in posession of a bloody shirt with several cuts in it. The defense attorney convincingly demonstrates that the cuts don't match the stab wounds. A juror poses a question. This is obviously very unconventional - but even more unusual, the judge allows it. The juror asks if the cuts match when the victim is curled up in a defensive position. They do. The defendant is convicted. ONLY because a juror spoke up. Another example is video tape of expert testimony that has obviously been edited due to objections by counsel, and then presented without the approval of the expert witness regarding its accuracy as edited. Which of course renders it useless as expert testimony, but it's admitted anyway. Damn the rules. Jurors, and all those involved for that matter, need to do the right thing. Maybe causing a mistrial is the most responsible thing you can do.

  13. Re:So change the rules by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That is not entirely true. Jury nullification occurs when a jury makes a decision on a point of law (i.e., that the law itself should not be enforced).

    That jury nullification exists as a de facto power is a very different thing than whether or not it is proper. It certainly is the case that the jury can decide the fact questions presented to it on any basis it chooses, including improper ones. Its a bit more debatable whether jury nullification is proper, but in any case jury nullification is not a finding on what the law is, it is a finding that the law should not be applied at all and that the defendant should be let off notwithstanding the law.

    Inasmuch as jury nullification is a desirable power of juries (whether or not technically a proper one), I would say that independent, out-of-court investigation, whose contents are not revealed completely to the parties, by jurors in support of it is equally problematic as such investigation in the jury's role as trier of fact, for the same reason: it brings arguments into the jury deliberations that have not been presented to the parties to the case and which the parties whose interests are harmed have no opportunity to rebut.

     

  14. Re:No fact checking for you! by justinlee37 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is the big problem -- if a juror does independent research to uncover facts about the case, and uses those facts to come to a decision regarding guilt or innocence, the attorneys for the defense and the prosecution have a right and a duty to hear of those facts and either support or debunk them in the courtroom. Furthermore, some forms of evidence, such as hearsay, are not legally admissible. It is the responsibility of the judge to ensure that hearsay is not admitted into the trial and allowing jurors to do their own research prevents the judge from performing his responsibility and thereby ensuring a fair and legal trial.