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The Coming Censorship Wars

KentuckyFC writes "Many countries censor internet traffic using techniques such as blocking IP addresses, filtering traffic with certain URLs in the data packets and prefix hijacking. Others allow wiretapping of international traffic with few if any legal safeguards. There are growing fears that these practices could trigger a major international incident should international traffic routed through these countries fall victim, whether deliberately or by accident (witness the prefix hijacking of YouTube in Pakistan last year). So how to avoid these places? A group of computer scientists investigating this problem say it turns out to be surprisingly difficult to determine which countries traffic might pass through. But their initial assessment indicates that the countries with the most pervasive censorship policies — China, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia — pose a minimal threat because so little international traffic passes their way. The researchers instead point the finger at western countries that have active censorship policies and carry large amounts of international traffic. They highlight the roles of the two biggest carriers: Great Britain, which actively censors internet traffic, and the US, which allows warrantless wiretapping of international traffic (abstract)."

50 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. to paraphrase a quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eventually the internet will treat the USA as damage and route around it.

    1. Re:to paraphrase a quote by peragrin · · Score: 3, Funny

      then what of Britain or Australia or france, which already use censorship on it's people.

      Soon there won't be places to route the damage around.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:to paraphrase a quote by squidinkcalligraphy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Australia doesn't _yet_. The govt is trying to set up a system, but hasn't got there yet

      --
      "I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
    3. Re:to paraphrase a quote by Dan541 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Australia doesn't censor the internet.

      We still have the right of free-speech for now.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    4. Re:to paraphrase a quote by unlametheweak · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are labeled a Troll, but I do distinctly remember reading an article that explains that a lot of ISPs do actually route around the USA because of its surveillance policies. Actually, it was quite easy to Google for information: The Internet interprets the USA as damage and routes around it. Your Troll moniker is certainly unjust.

    5. Re:to paraphrase a quote by fostware · · Score: 2, Informative

      Australia does not have the "right to free speech".

      Nowhere in our constitution do residents have "free speech". we've assumed it comes from the UN's Human Rights, but it hasn't been enacted in law, so courts are not required to acknowledge it's existence.

      For a sobering read : http://www.aph.gov.au/LIBRARY/Pubs/RN/2001-02/02rn42.htm

      --
      "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
  2. skibaldy by skibaldy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A society that uses Censorship must have something or someone to hide.

    --
    I love life, live life to love.
    1. Re:skibaldy by DavidR1991 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm kind of on the fence about my country's censorship (The UK, that is). As far as I know, it's only child porn that is actively censored, and whilst I don't mind it being censored due to what it is, it does spark the question "Where will it stop?"

      The other problem is that they don't censor everything else that's illegal - so should they continue to censor child porn and nothing else, or censor everything illegal? Or abandon all censorship? It's a tricky conundrum once it starts to involve the law :/

    2. Re:skibaldy by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Take a look at the USA constitution to see where will it stop. The answer is, it won't ever stop. Whenever a government manages to circumvent a freedom for some "great" reason, they continue, and continue, and continue. First they let wiretaps be admissible in court, today, the government via the "Patriot" Act allows any US citizen to be wiretapped to fight against "terrorism". Its a downward spiral, first its always something that most people agree with, then they start rapidly expanding and next thing you know you are living under tyranny.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:skibaldy by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      So wait, tell me where this censorship is going to stop?

      First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

      Have you not seen throughout history that those who censor end up censoring *everything*? Sure, first everyone can agree that child porn is bad, but if we don't speak out against this who knows what will be next.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:skibaldy by digitig · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Except that in real life the world isn't binary, my friends.

      Maybe it is all binary -- just a lot of bits.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    5. Re:skibaldy by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm kind of on the fence about my country's censorship (The UK, that is). As far as I know, it's only child porn that is actively censored

      The trouble is with that "as far as I know". Even the government doesn't actually know what's being censored. It's been completely handed over to a self-appointed body, with no oversight, no accountability and no appeal process. And why do you think it's only child porn being censored? Because the censors say so. What's wrong with this picture?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    6. Re:skibaldy by mazarin5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As far as I know, it's only child porn

      "Where will it stop?"

      As far as you know, only child porn. What you don't know is the problem with censorship in the first place.

      --
      Fnord.
    7. Re:skibaldy by badfish99 · · Score: 4, Informative

      We know for sure one thing that the UK tried to censor: the album cover image on Wikipedia. We only found out about that one by chance. Presumably they censor many more things like that, that we haven't found out about. And since the item in question had been openly on sale for many years, we know that it is certainly not illegal.

    8. Re:skibaldy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I found the Australian and Danish block lists on Wikileaks, and a random sample weren't blocked by my big-name UK ISP. I checked all the ones that looked like they shouldn't be blocked at all (shock sites, anti-abortion etc). I didn't want to look at all the child porn, but I tried about 5 and the home pages all loaded.

      The censoring in the UK is at the level of the home user's ISP anyway, so there's no need to "route around" anything. It's inaccurate to say Great Britain (well, the UK) censors Internet traffic. The government has asked ISPs providing connections to home users to filter DNS requests for some websites. This is nothing like the Chinese Firewall, for instance.

    9. Re:skibaldy by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's the problem. Some censorship is critical to national security, or other types of security. Right now nuclear devices are too hard to build for any single idiot. Fusion research may change that. Would you want THOSE plans public ? Or censored ?

      There is a difference between non public or under a NDA than censored. For example, is an author's work that he never published censored? No. Its simply not published. While nuclear blueprints would certainly be non-published, and in the contract to which you sell your soul to a country when you become a government officer, they may forbid you to release such documents. That is not censorship, that is just not publishing them.

      Now if, someone were to write "How to make a weapon of mass destruction for under $200" and the government forbid people to buy the book or the book to be published and the creators did not sign a contract that forbid such action, yes, that would be censorship.

      And for your comment on flaw finding, you assume that the average person can simply find a flaw by looking at detailed blueprints that an entire team of architects could not find. That is unlikely, most terrorists are average people having little to no specialized skills, they aren't a professional architect, they aren't going to be able to find these said flaws. Give a script kiddy the source to the Linux kernel and tell them to find a buffer overflow, they won't be able to do it. Similarly, an ordinary terrorist isn't going to be able to find these magical faults in buildings with the blueprints.

      In DNA manipulation, some procedures aren't all that difficult, even to do in your own garage. Preparing a bioweapon isn't hard (it's not killing yourself in the process and delivering the weapon that are the problematic parts), perhaps it should be published how it's done, with extra emphasis on those parts where the terrorists that have tried had real trouble with (e.g. an ineffective delivery device for sarin gas was the only thing that prevented the tokyo subway from being filled with that gas. Can't have that ... let's publish a few DIY plans).

      Exactly, so what though? It is improbable to impossible that an ordinary person could successfully make a devastating bioweapon. Even a skilled biochemist would have much, much, difficulty. Its equivalent to saying that an ordinary person could somehow make effective weapons that took a large team of scientists many years to do, and even then it rarely worked.

      You assume that someone could, and would publish "How to make a bioweapon 101" and assume that the average terrorist could read, comprehend, and carry out the steps if they were in fact correct. You can't buy Anthrax at your local store, you aren't going to find old bottles of smallpox in an abandoned warehouse, etc.

      Child porn stimulates abusing children sexually for financial gain. Censorship can prevent the financial gain, thereby lowering child abuse. Of course this is a good thing.

      Sure, lowering child abuse is a good thing, but censorship is not the way to go. Already, child porn has been elevated to a thinkcrime. Where by not doing any action that directly harms anyone, you are committing a crime. You are, in effect making information illegal. Now, non-free governments always start by restricting things that are "bad", but soon "bad" encompasses more, and more things until you get a situation like China. What do you think that the Chinese think that their government is censoring? Not free speech, but immoral, and generally "bad" things.

      Let's face it, censoring some things should be done. Basically anything that crosses a certain threshold of criticality and cannot easily be modified should be a secret, and it should be a crime to divulge such information to anyone who does not need to know. Everything from building weaknesses to certain scientific results ...

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    10. Re:skibaldy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't like the the truth, so you change the standard.

      The US is a tyranny. No one can know the law or how it will be applied. Honestly pleading "not guilty" can be punished more than most felonies are. Anyone can be imprisoned indefinitely on the basis of unsubstantiated secret allegations. Financial transactions and private communications are heavily monitored. Property can be seized without due process - having more than $10000 in cash is considered prima facie evidence of guilt - you have no property rights, since they are suing the cash itself, not you. The ability to travel is no longer a right but a privilege contingent on showing your government-issued papers and not being on the "terrorist watch list", which is really just an alleged enemies list. No other countries except Russia and China imprison more people.

      Your posts continually reveal further depths of moral bankruptcy and abject toadying to the lowest forms of parasitic usurping political scum. You have no place in this country, this world, this life. Your ugly idiocy befouls all that is good in mankind. I loathe your very essence and wish your evil spirit complete and eternal annihilation.

         

    11. Re:skibaldy by Zarluk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps, instead of investing on censorship we should invest on eduction so that "the people" could understand a little better what "the game is about" ;-)

    12. Re:skibaldy by Quantos · · Score: 2, Informative
      I would like to see where you get your facts from. Could you perhaps shed some more light on your claims?

      No one can know the law or how it will be applied.

      There are quite a few excellent lawyers out there, they do know the law and how to apply it.

      you have no property rights, since they are suing the cash itself, not you.

      I don't think that it's possible to sue a stack of cash, no matter how big it is.

      The ability to travel is no longer a right but a privilege contingent on showing your government-issued papers and not being on the "terrorist watch list", which is really just an alleged enemies list.

      Travel is a right, within certain guidelines. True it has gotten worse lately, for some people at least, I know many people that travel without a problem at all.

      No other countries except Russia and China imprison more people.

      Check your figures again, I'm pretty sure that the U.S.A. imprisons more people per capita than any other country.

      Your posts continually reveal further depths of moral bankruptcy and abject toadying to the lowest forms of parasitic usurping political scum. You have no place in this country, this world, this life. Your ugly idiocy befouls all that is good in mankind. I loathe your very essence and wish your evil spirit complete and eternal annihilation.

      Finally, stop talking to yourself :)

      --
      Some people are only alive because it's against the law for me to hunt them down and kill them.
    13. Re:skibaldy by mrmeval · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well you might go back to Lincoln or a bit later to the national fireamrs in the 1930's act or the 1968 gun control act or the 1986 out ban on new NFA registries or the go back to the era of the NFA and the tax on hemp which became a ban because you can't pay the tax.

      Governments are made of two kinds of people, those that really serve the people and those that serve the system. Those that serve the system end up running it. That's Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

      http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2view/view408.html#Iron

      You can't change it, you can't steer it with any precision and you can't make it go away easily.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    14. Re:skibaldy by Nursie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not that I agree with the other side of the argument, but there have been US cases where money (or other asset) was the defendant.

      It's really weird.

    15. Re:skibaldy by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Informative

      And for your comment on flaw finding, you assume that the average person can simply find a flaw by looking at detailed blueprints that an entire team of architects could not find. That is unlikely, most terrorists are average people having little to no specialized skills, they aren't a professional architect, they aren't going to be able to find these said flaws.

      1. Many of the leaders in terrorist movements are (western) college educated engineers, scientists, doctors, or they received a practical education on the ground.
      Here's two /. discussions about it
      http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/01/29/1614206.shtml
      http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/03/1943247.shtml

      2. The growing fear is that educated westerners (i.e. white people) are going to be radicalized and disrupt the :cough:non-existent:cough: racial profiling that exists.

      So while "most terrorists are average people having little to no specialized skills", the reality is that the people planning attacks are educated people with specialized skills.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    16. Re:skibaldy by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Child pornography is the rape of a child for the sexual entertainment of an adult.

      Child pornography may be documentation of said rape, not the actual crime.

      Distribution of the video is an added kick for the rapist

      How do you know this? And should something be a crime because a rapist enjoy it?

      a lasting hurt for the victim

      I'm not a psychologist, but I have a feeling a victim of child abuse have much worse things to worry about than searching the web for images of themselves.

      and can be quite profitable as well.

      A lot of things are profitable, most of these are legal.

      You are not an innocent when you download and retain evidence of a rape.

      Is it illegal to own a copy or image of every type of crime evidence?

      You are not an innocent when you are a client - a customer - who is in the market for more of the same.

      What if you're not a client or customer, but just get everything for free?

      The feeling I get here is that you simply think it's morally wrong, and want to ban it because of that. Then inventing random arguments to support it.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    17. Re:skibaldy by drsmithy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Child pornography is the rape of a child for the sexual entertainment of an adult.

      Child pornography is also a 15 year old girl recording herself nude on her mobile phone and then sending the video to her boyfriend in his 18th birthday.

    18. Re:skibaldy by pipatron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yet another person who doesn't understand the difference between a digital copy of something and a physical object. That analogy is really bad, and by using it you only make yourself look like a fool.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    19. Re:skibaldy by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Child pornography is the rape of a child for the sexual entertainment of an adult. Distribution of the video is an added kick for the rapist - a lasting hurt for the victim - and can be quite profitable as well.

      It can be all of those things. It's also the 17 year old girl I fucked all last night (age of consent is 16 here) sending me a sexually explicit pic of herself. Or according to the even more fucked up laws of Norway it can be a cartoon someone draw, any girl playing to be under the age of 18 or a story or any other form of work that sexualizes someone under 18. Censorers love people like you, because you take the worst possible a law can cover and use that as justification for the most overbroad censorship.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    20. Re:skibaldy by dryeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is what I hate about some Americans. They actually believe the propaganda they have been fed about being so free. Meanwhile they can be sent to jail for possessing a seed. And if that isn't bad enough they also still have the left over feudal concept of felony where after getting caught with that seed their whole life is ruined, including having most of their possessions taken away.
      They can't vote to change the unjust law that put them in jail. The rights that Americans consider basic like owning Firearms are taken away forever. And they call it freedom.
      Even the way they appoint a new tyrant^w leader is totally corrupt with vote fraud considered OK, the politicians themselves put in charge of the election process so even basic things like the shape of a riding is totally corrupted.
      In some states it is illegal not to show ID as well as how difficult it has become to simply travel.
      It is considered perfectly fine that their overfull prisons are a hotbed of anal rape and they actually kill people.
      I guess what it is is some Americans have a warped view of what freedom is.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    21. Re:skibaldy by dryeo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you really think that in government (at least above the local level) there are some that mostly want to serve the people?
      To quote Lazarus Long
      Political tags-such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth-are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those want people controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    22. Re:skibaldy by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      in Australia it's even worse. child pornography is a 15 year old girl recording herself nude on her mobile phone and then sending the video to her boyfriend in his 15th birthday. it doesnt matter that both parties are under 18 and both are consensual, the girl could be charged with making and distributing child porn and the guy for possession of child porn.

      triple j (an Australian government funded radio station) had a segment late last year where they interviewed a bunch of school students and asked them about this. a large number of them admitted they'd been involved in such acts in the past and had no idea it was even illegal.

      it's a perfect example that there is way too much focus on how the law is written instead of what it is supposed to achieve

      --
      TIAEAE!
    23. Re:skibaldy by Toonol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The historical view of Americans that the government is the enemy is one of the greatest forces for good in our nation. The fact that so many Americans are losing that view is contributing greatly to our current social problems.

      Governments, even the best of them, should be viewed as a necessary evil.

    24. Re:skibaldy by EdIII · · Score: 2

      -1 disagree with everything you said, including your sig. 8-)

      Same to you.

      The word terrorism is put into quotes most often because it is perceived to be bullshit that the government is actually using it to fight terrorism. Now I understand that it might offend you if it was put into quotes and you interpreted that as somehow trivializing the loss of 3,000 Americans on that day. However, your are wrong about why he was doing it.

      In any case, I don't find the death of 30,000, 300,000 or 3,000,000 Americans cause to give up any of my rights. I find that cause to completely obliterate a foreign nation and "salt the earth" to the point that nothing will grow there for 10,000 years. Evolved people that value life and their ideals can only exist in peace as long as there are not legions of angry hate filled men bent on destroying them.

      The reason why I am so angry is that the whole reason we should be spending so much money on hired illegal mercenaries and spending so little money on the poor bastards (our soliders) to go over there and fight is so that we can preserve our freedom.

      He is exactly right. The Patriot act and the resultant behavior of the government is inexcusable. I refuse to cower in fear, give up my freedoms, and betray everything that it means to be an American in the first place just to give more powers to the government to be abused.

      So where are we now? Terrorism still exists. We have less freedom and peace. There has not been a measurable increase in our security. We have spent nearly a trillion dollars fighting two wars with practically no results. That's right. NO RESULTS. Afghanistan has made more progress than Iraq, yet is still seeing a resurgence of the Taliban more than ever. We never even touched Pakistan, which is far greater of a threat now than ever.

      He said:

      Whenever a government manages to circumvent a freedom for some "great" reason, they continue, and continue, and continue. --- Its a downward spiral, first its always something that most people agree with, then they start rapidly expanding and next thing you know you are living under tyranny

      People like you, meaning people that make arguments such as yourself, always seem to gloss over this and never actually confront this truth. There is PLENTY of evidence in our global history that this is a true observation. Why would America be so different than everywhere else? You really think the Germans in 1930 were morally and ethically inferior to us? They valued the ideas of a tyranny-free country less than we do? Germany went from a rather normal country to complete tyranny in only 12 years with marked similarities to us now.

      The 3,000 people that killed was a terrible thing. However, people such as the poster and myself should be able to question the loss of our freedoms and make observations about the slippery slope we are on without being labeled as unpatriotic.

    25. Re:skibaldy by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2

      Anything short of a lethal virus, chemical weapon, or fissionable material is fit for use by the average citizen, as far as I'm concerned.

      Lethal viruses are -not- censored. Not in the US, not even in Europe. This has only been abused 2 or 3 times in 50 years and is critical to university research. You basically have to ask the CDC to send you some, and provide some justification (they merely store it, you could literally state that you want to kill your mother in law, and they'll still send you the viruses you request). Heh, in the US the taxpayer even pays for the stamp and the packaging of potential lethal weapons.

      Fissionable material is censored above quantities of about 100gr.

      There are other hugely dangerous substances basically for sale. Hydrogen cyanide gas can be bought in any western - and eastern - city, as ironically it's necessary for food preparation in factories. Don't tell the terrorists. LD50 (the dose that 50% of people die off) is a few mg, method of delivery is merely contact with the skin. It's method of preparation, though very easy, is being kept secret. Even though every chemist will be able to come up with a method. It can remain airborne for 15 minutes in a sort of emulsion with the right mix. Both these formulas you will not find in any chemistry book, despite the first being very uncomplicated. Especially preparing it from another -less dangerous- form of cyanide is very trivial indeed.

      But you do agree that at least one thing should be censored.

  3. Begun by memorycardfull · · Score: 5, Funny

    these [censored] wars have.

  4. simply put by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In few years the Internet as we knew it will become a Frankennet made of closed bubbles that will talk each other only through heavily filtered pipes. Every nation will spy on its own citizen and impose filters to limit or stop connectivity when necessary.
    Freedom of communication is simply a too dangerous weapon to be left in the hands of common people.
    AFAIK, this process already started a few years ago.

  5. Not just the US, pretty much everybody by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    Any country with an active sigint program is snooping international internet traffic coming through their pipes. After all, that is the job of an intelligence agency. Only questions are to what degree and sophistication. Oh, and here's a list of countries with SIGINT programme.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGINT_by_Alliances,_Nations_and_Industries

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  6. Who needs to avoid these countries? by owlnation · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not sure who we are talking about. Who is it that needs to avoid countries actively censoring?

    Considering the countries actively censoring or monitoring I'm aware of are: USA, UK, Germany, France, Belgium, Czech Republic, Poland, Russia, Austria, Australia, China, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. I'm sure there also many more.

    Are we talking about Latvia trying to route to Luxembourg here? Who?

    Surely... The sane thing to do is to actually stand up and stop governments censoring and monitoring, rather than talk about some small country re-routing to another. Look at the list above, that's probably 75% of the internet there (I'm guessing that figure).

    Re-routing is a sin of commission. Lets actually fix the fucking problem, rather than step over it. Our Governments do not represent us any more. Get them out of office. Make your voices heard, while you still actually have them.

    Or are you just going to sit there and take it? The time to act is now, not soon, nor when it gets really bad.

  7. Re:voluntary, domestic censorship only in GB by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How is that voluntary? In most cases you can only slightly "choose" your ISP, and even then you simply have to get the least evil. Voluntary for the ISPs, but that is not voluntary for the end user, not in the least.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  8. Re:What a load. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    None of the countries who censor the internet are ever portrayed as "free". Though the governments of those countries claim that they are free, even the media and the average Joe know that they are not free. On the the other hand, all the western civilizations try to claim that they are the most free nation on the face of the earth. Ever. And the mainstream media buys into that, all the while they are doing things that if they were taking place in another country would make that country seem more "non-free" by the media.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  9. Total frickin encryption, all the time by presidenteloco · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If these piss-ant dictators and foaming moralists won't leave well enough alone, we'll just have to encrypt (TOR) the lot of it.

    I am really serious. If we don't start using encrypted traffic
    routinely and by default on the Internet soon, then doing so
    will without doubt be made illegal.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  10. Re:voluntary, domestic censorship only in GB by xaxa · · Score: 3, Informative

    How is that voluntary? In most cases you can only slightly "choose" your ISP, and even then you simply have to get the least evil. Voluntary for the ISPs, but that is not voluntary for the end user, not in the least.

    In the UK, if you can get ADSL you can choose *any* ADSL provider. All the phone lines are owned by the ex-monopoly (BT), but BT are required to lease the line to any broadband provider the customer chooses.

    At the moment, the ISPs that don't censor are the smaller ones, which tend to be slightly more expensive -- but also provide better customer service etc.

  11. An incident all right. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are growing fears that these practices could trigger a major international incident

    Just wait until the print newspapers are gone. When the only source of news is via the internet...

  12. Who cares? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not about the censorship, that is an issue if you live in a country that does it, but the monitoring? I mean really, do you assume your traffic is private? If so that's a really bad idea. I've always assumed that my traffic going over the net could be watched. Governments aren't the only people who could watch you. For example at work, we have a packet sniffer to help diagnose problems. Usually it sits idle watching nothing. However we can watch any traffic we like, and can do so invisibly. If I want I can mirror a port and watch everything someone does.

    So you should always operate under the assumption that your traffic could be watched. Your ISP, another ISP, your government, another government, a crafty hacker, etc all could watch what you are doing. That means that if what you are doing needs to be kept secret, encrypt that shit. Don't send passwords. credit card numbers, etc in clear text. Use things like SSH/SSL for important stuff. Heck use them for non important stuff too if you like, it isn't as though encryption hits modern computers that hard these days.

    Point is I don't see why as an individual you'd worry if a foreign country is monitoring your traffic. They could just be one of many. I can see concern if your government is monitoring your traffic, and especially if they are censoring your traffic, but in general, assume shit you do on the Internet is watched.

  13. Circumvention by thethibs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the end, anyone with an IP address can act as a host or relay. If something wants to get through, it will.

    There was an advantage to the uucp forwarding network, in that routing could be managed and the number of possible paths was immense. Anyone with a basic PC and a modem could install Waffle and become a uucp node. For two years when the wall was still up, I had an ongoing conversation with a mathematician/cryptographer in Minsk (no Tom Lear jokes, please). I was always concerned that the Soviets would find him out, but he never shared my concern. Messages between us usually took more than twenty hops, one of which was a diskette hand-carried between East and West Berlin.

    A little-known fact is that the fall of the Soviet Union was in part coordinated via email carried on uucp and fidoNet. Mainly this was because these networks ran "below the radar", from one phone to another and could change their locations at will. There also was an advantage in these networks' use of Zmodem for exchange. Zmodem's error correction, rate adjustment and pig-headed retry made sure the message got through in spite of the really poor state of Soviet phone service.

    The Internet's biggest weakness right now is that most of the traffic ends up on a small number of backbones. The only thing standing between the current tree-structured internet and a true network is incentive. Censorship would probably stimulate a change in topology.

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
  14. All Censorship Sucks by b4upoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This article points to one very real problem with censorship. Once one party assumes the right to censor then all parties, everywhere assume the same privilege. The simple fact is that any censorship, no matter how seemingly innocent, is an attack upon the freedom of all people in all nations.

  15. Nit: by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... most terrorists are average people having little to no specialized skills, they aren't a professional architect, ...

    You shouldn't make that assumption or use it in anti-censorship arguments. In fact a non-trivial number of the planners in terrorist organizations ARE such experts.

    Osama, for instance, is/was a civil engineer and owner/operator of a major civil engineering firm. Not only is he such an expert but he had many more working for him aboveground and thus plenty of potential recruits for underground work.

    It's pretty clear that the attack on the Twin Towers was well designed to take the building down, probably by experts working with the building plans: The building had a failure mode that could be exploited by heat (weakening the floor structures, which braced the supporting walls against buckling, so the floors would drop away and leave the walls unbraced) and the planes were fully fueled and banked just before impact so their fuel would be deposited on several consecutive floors.

    Planners in terrorist organizations don't necessarily ever end up on the operations. Thus they aren't expended and a few of them can plan many attacks.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  16. USA vs. $30,000.00 in US Currency by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Informative

    > I don't think that it's possible to sue a stack of cash, no matter how big it is.

    Actually it is. I picked the first example I could find from a little Googling, but here's the docket for the United States of America v. Thirty Thousand Dollars ($30,000.00) In United States Currency for your reading pleasure.

    I also found this news article about how this works in another case, which is more than a little disturbing. You're simply not allowed to have too much cash these days. They think it proves you're doing something illegal. Even if they're right most of the time, I think it's terrible what they can do to the innocent.

  17. All censorship is about control of information by AnalPerfume · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before the internet the only way you could have a voice that told a story to a large amount of people was to publish it, which cost a LOT of money and had a gatekeeper (editor) to decide if it was suitable. If your story was exposing corruption within a corporation and that corporation sponsored that publishing house, you have zero chance of it getting published. Publishing is not just the cost of printing, but the distribution network to get it to a large number of widely spread out locations. You could print the story yourself which would cost a small fortune, then drive around delivering it yourself which would cost another small fortune in fuel bills. Then your next problem is how to recoup your money. That's just the print industry. TV and radio are even tighter controlled and much more expensive to break into.

    The point is that before the internet the elite had control over the gatekeepers; the gatekeepers can now be bypassed by anyone with access to the internet.

    Even when PC's were still very expensive and programs were still complicated, knowledge like how to put up a website was seen as having skills beyond the normal user, internet censorship wasn't really an issue. From there grew some things that weren't illegal at the time but gradually became illegal like publishing child porn. The only reason these types of things weren't illegal in the first place is that when the laws were written they didn't foresee this "internet thingy" and had to be amended to take it into account.

    As PC's get cheaper and easier to use, as services pop up that make it easier and easier, not to mention cheaper or even free for average non-technical users to set up some web presence. Throw a stick and you find plenty of examples from MySpace, Facebook, WordPress etc. This means that all those voices who had knowledge of some wrongdoing now have a voice and are increasingly willing to use it. It means that everyone willing to try and scam someone from a safe distance now has a way to do it. It means that everyone with an agenda (good, bad or just sad) now has a way to organize and recruit.

    As people spend more and more time with online services which they are interacting WITH other people instead of being a target being sprayed with adverts from corporations in the hopes of leeching some cash for shit they didn't really need. Not only does that take their time and loyalty away from the traditional media companies, it also exposes them to different stories than they see in the mainstream, or different versions of the same stories. That's not to say everything they see / hear / read online is true, but then again that is also true of the mainstream media corporations who they previously DID believe to be true......before the internet made them skeptical.

    Without this free access to publishing online, sites like wikileaks would never have gotten than knowledge to the masses. By "the masses" we're not just talking one country, we're talking "the whole planet". Well the whole planet who have not censored them. Without the internet that knowledge would never come out, and the corporations involved would continue to get away with murder because they control the gatekeepers of the knowledge. Any who step out of line have work addresses which can be visited by some "re-educators" with baseball bats. The internet has changed all of that, it's no surprise that the elite are scrambling around trying to silence stuff, they have a LOT of skeletons in their closets which would seriously damage their liberty, money or their reputation which they've carefully managed over the years by controlling the gatekeepers. In short, they have lost control, internet censorship is the only response they have to regaining that control.

    1. Re:All censorship is about control of information by AnalPerfume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I had a few more thoughts while making coffee and since /. won't allow editing of your own posts I'm forced to reply to mine, sorry.....it would have been in the post above if I chose not to publish before making coffee.

      When people can set up as bloggers and gain credibility as a reliable source of information based on what they say, this has to be seen as dangerous to the mainstream. It can cut though a lot of money slushing around to get a controlled message out, only to find the controlled version is being dissected by someone with real credibility. When sites and forums offer an uncensored channel of feedback and reviews on something that the manufacturer won't (Apple I'm looking at you here) it can have a hefty impact countering the millions of dollars spent on polishing the message. Microsoft also fell foul of this with Vista being shown as the POS it is despite Microsoft trying to silence the dissenters and bribe the mainstream media. In Microsoft's case it meant that they shipped a dead product that nobody wanted. They had no choice after a while to advance Windows 7.

      More and more people are starting to figure out that the last place you want to go for REAL information on a product is the manufacturers sites, as all you'll get there is a sales pitch designed to hype up the positives and not mention the negatives. Corporations know their messages are seen increasingly as sales pitches and are desperate to get the message out but from a source the consumer won't filter out. This is where the role of "independents" come in.

      Before the internet these so called "independents" were still being controlled by advertising money etc. If Microsoft advertised in every PC magazine on the shelves, are any of them likely to expose one of Microsoft's crimes if they got a scoop on it? Now with the internet independents can establish themselves by their actions, and are not reliant on advertising by corporations who would rather shut their message down. This means there are REAL alternative voices drawing people away from their carefully controlled messages. Without the internet, if you got all your PC knowledge from magazines you'd be under the impression that Windows and PC's were the same thing, and that it was impossible to separate them.

      The ban on online gambling in the US was never about protecting American citizens from harm, it was about protecting the Las Vegas profit streams as more and more American gamblers stayed at home and gambled online instead of visiting their establishments.

  18. Re:prove it by Toonol · · Score: 3, Informative

    "NEWARK, Ohio -- Central Ohio authorities have filed felony charges against a 15-year-old girl accused of taking nude cell phone photos of herself and sending them to high school classmates.

    Police say the Newark Licking Valley student was arrested Friday and held over the weekend. On Monday, she entered denials to juvenile charges of illegal use of a minor in nudity-oriented material and possession of criminal tools.

    A spokeswoman for the Ohio attorney general's office says an adult convicted of the child pornography charge would have to register as a sexual offender, but a judge would have flexibility on the matter with a convicted juvenile.

    A prosecutor says Licking County authorities also considering charges for students who received the photos." (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434645,00.html)

    True, I don't know if she was convicted, but she was charged with a felony.

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion