Increase In Xbox 360 E74 Problems

Xbm360 writes "According to data collected by Joystiq as well as Google Trends, there's been a steady rise in reports and discussion of the so-called E74 error on Xbox 360 consoles since August of last year. The E74 error is related to video problems caused by either a faulty AV connector or, more often, a loosened ANA/HANA scaling chip. This is not the first time the Xbox 360 has experienced technical issues; in recent years many people have complained about scratched discs and over-heating consoles — the 'red ring of death.'"

Comments

Heh, figures.

[rarel]

I don't want to troll, but that's exactly why I chose to buy a PS3 instead of a 360. It cost me more, and the 360 has *plenty* of games I'd like to play, but I just can't justify paying that kind of money for a shoddy brick that could actually be broken before I even plug it in for the first time.

I'm not disappointed by the PS3, I actually have quite a lot of fun with it, but I'd have bought a 360 Elite instead a long time ago if it weren't for the litany of failures reported everyfuckinwhere.

The games are cool, but they managed to ruin this making the hardware a piece of crap. Mod me troll if you like, that's just how it is.

Re:Heh, figures.

[ericrost]

I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but I am on my third Xbox (I've only purchased one). The first one would sometimes freeze up on powerup, sometimes give an E74, and they wouldn't replace it till it RROD'd, it lasted two months. The second one lasted just over a year (long enough for the standard warranty to run out) it started randomly freezing up in the midst of games, the menus, etc and at completely random intervals. They refused to replace it. Flatly refused, the only thing the 3 year warranty is for is RROD's. Eventually (a few weeks later) it did RROD:

Advice for the unfortunate out there, don't pay $100 or so to ship your console to Microsoft if its freezing up, wait a bit and actually use it and put up with the freezing for a few weeks, it seems likely to result in a RROD.

Re:Heh, figures.

[berend botje]

Perhaps I'm killing them (except for the one DOA), however I'm not sure how I do that.

They are stationary, in a well ventilated space. No extreme temperatures or humidity. No pets, no kids. There are no known issues with the power company (no brown-/blackouts in over a decade).

So please tell me how I kill them. It would save me a trip to the post office every now and then.

It seems I'm not alone in this. Google is filled to the brim with people that are on their n'th replacement.

So maybe it isn't me. Maybe it isn't all the others that suffer high failure rates. Maybe, just maybe, it's that the design or build quality is poor. I think so, at least.

Re:I don't quite see what this is about

[miffo.swe]

The issue is that an Xbox360 is less sturdy than anything else on the market right now. Compared to Wii and PS3 its a pile of manure disguised as a gaming console.

Its just shitty hardware Q&A from the same company that excels in bad quality software.

After this long...

[sunami88]

All this time since launch, and consoles are still dropping. I feel a fool for giving them my money *stares pointedly at his 360 with messed up video output*.

Call me a troll, but I feel ripped off: Fucking FAIL

Re:I don't quite see what this is about

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

My guess would be that it's mostly caused by Microsofts relative hardware inexperience.

Demonstrably false. Microsoft have a quality console under their belts. Despite it's ponderous bulk, the original Xbox was a reliable console. I've rarely heard of system failures or disc scratches, and the device stands up well to custom modding. In addition to this, it was the first mainstream console to have hard drive and an ethernet link. And that was all from a company which, to my knowledge, had never produced a single hardware product.

Now that same company comes out and produces the 360 with its notoriously high failure rate. And it's wasn't down to the complexity of the design. The red ring of death was due to parts and material failures. Scratched discs were again down to a substandard component. Now we have a loose video chip problem.

This is NOT down to design. These issues are trivial to fix if only Microsoft was willing to pay the money. The fact is, they're not. These errors all exist because Microsoft is cutting costs across the board on 360 manufacturing. For every error that is found, you can be sure that three more lurk beneath the surface as a result of substandard parts, components and assembly line procedures.

The reason is clear. Despite their deep pockets, Microsoft are not willing to make the kind of losses everyone assumes they can make with the 360. But they still want a lower price point. It's not just manufacturing. Look at Live. Microsoft are the only game service provider in the world who are charging people to play titles online. When everyone else; Nintendo, Sony and Valve, make playing online completely free, the Live gold membership fee required to play every single Xbox 360 title online stands out like a sore thumb. It's particularly egregious standing next to Microsoft's own Games for Windows: Live, which is also free.

Bad hardware and unnecessary online fees. Why would a company in Microsoft's position continue to hinder itself in these ways? The answer is that they want the 360 to succeed, but are not willing to shell out funds indefinitely to achieve this. The console needs to sell massively, but they are not willing to charge people for this, so production costs are cut instead. The console needs to make money off people during its lifetime, but they are not willing to do this through selling games, so they charge for services that should be free.

Everyone has assumed that Microsoft's funds are essentially unlimited when it comes to their goal of getting a Microsoft console into the living room. I don't think this is true anymore. Over time, it has become clear that a console in the living room is not going to serve as the hub of a digital household. I think Microsoft has realized this and is now simply treating the Xbox as another part of its home computer strategy, but not as an essentially one that must be maintained at any cost.

Re:And who said

[scubamage]

Are you effing kidding man? No offense, but chip creep? That hasn't been an issue in production hardware that *I* have seen for well over 15 years, possibly 20 - even in the cheapest, shoddiest equipment. For it to suddenly appear in an XBox 360 is nothing short of pathetic. Set your fanboyism aside - and don't kid yourself, reread your post and you'll see that's exactly what it is - just look at the actual issue.

For those who don't know what chip creep is, it's the term used to describe the movement of chips that occurs when they're not soldered/improperly soldered, and is caused by repetitive heating/cooling over a span of time. The metal expands and contracts, which eventually causes it to work itself loose. It's an issue as old as the hills, and its really pretty shameful for it to be occurring in the 360.

Re:I don't quite see what this is about

[FrankieBaby1986]

Not to be an apologist, but i think you missed the point in the trade-off with DVD-R's.

It is well known that writeable CD's and DVD's have a limited shelf life. They're not intended for archival purposes.

The point is that every X years, where X is sufficiently short to prevent data loss, you can make an EXACT COPY of the higher-quality video, with extremely little or no loss in quality.

Try that with a VHS tape.

Re:I don't quite see what this is about

[arkhan_jg]

No, it is definitely bad design.

The 360 GPU heatsink is tiny compared to the CPU heatsink, because they had to squeeze it directly under the DVD drive because of their layout. I have heard that originally that had more room - and a bigger heatsink - but it was shrunk when the case was redesigned to be smaller. The board is also under curve stress because of the case, so when the GPU gets so hot it starts to melt its own solder slightly, you get bad joints, and bing, it dies.

Many people have fixed their own RROD problem, at least temporarily, by disassembling the unit and heating the GPU heatsink with a hairdryer, while using something like the X-clamp replacement clamps to keep the heatsink clamped down tight, and effectively reheat and reflow the solder joints. Some people have used flux to fix more problematic consoles, and some repair specialists have even got their own reflow ovens.

Several of the console revisions have basically been an extra heatsink with a heatpipe to try and stop the GPU literally cooking itself off the board. The newest consoles, with the process shrink, have smaller power supplies and generate less heat in the first place, so should be more reliable.

The biggest problem with the 360 is overheating, even in normal use, and that's down to too small a case with consequential undersized heatsinks.

However, I'll grant you that the DVD scratching problem is simply down to them being cheap - they skipped putting bumpers in to stop it digging into the disc, because it saved them a couple of cents per console. The problem comes about because they're spinning the disc too fast, with insufficient magnetic grip. They could have redesigned the drive, but it would have made it too slow reading, or take longer to spinup/eject discs. Microsoft knew about the design problem, but went ahead anyway, because they were too cheap to fix it.