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Toward the Open Company

Arto Stimms writes "The author of the e text editor is using the principles of open source to transform his company into an Open Company. Not only is he releasing the source, the company itself becomes totally open: no concept of bosses or employees. Anyone can join in at any time, doing whatever task they find interesting, for whatever time they find appropriate. This is in service of the idea of 'the real freedom zero': the freedom to decide for yourself what you want to work on."

26 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Just like a closed company... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...but without the paycheck.

    1. Re:Just like a closed company... by megamerican · · Score: 4, Interesting

      However, you can fire yourself and then go collect unemployment.

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    2. Re:Just like a closed company... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "At least in Canada, you don't get unemployment insurance if you quit, it's only for people who are laid off."

      "Same in the US."

      Generalizations are always a bad idea! (it's funny; think about it.)

      In Massachusetts you can quit and still collect under certain circumstances, though you may need to go for an appeal. I have done it. In my case my job responsibilities changed drastically . I explained to the appeals officer that they were trying the equivalent of demoting a lawyer to secretary and keeping the title (the new boss was afraid of technology and wanted to do all the testing manually, and I was in charge of SQA at the time). He understood that even with the same title and pay, I would still only have the experience of a secretary to show on my resume for my efforts. Case closed. I got approved via snail mail the next day !

      The best part was wiping the smile off the face of the HR moron who told me he loves to go to appeals and I don't have a chance of winning because he does it all of the time. No I take that back. The best part was explaining to one of the three lawyers that he brought with him to intimidate me that it wasn't as court of law, and he couldn't object. It's like the Visa (Mastercard?) commercial:

      Winning the case: 26 months of income if needed.
      Watching the way the lawyer was on the verge of tears of anger: priceless ! ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  2. I don't think it will work... by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is the kind of thinking that made the hippie commune into the corporate juggernaut it is today. By "corporate juggernaut" I mean, virtually extinct.

    The best "Open" corporate structure I've ever head of was a company that had a policy where no person could make more than seven times as much money as any other person in the company.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:I don't think it will work... by mrlibertarian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...a policy where no person could make more than seven times as much money as any other person in the company.

      Imagine two goods, good A and good B, that are sold on the open market. Good A sells for a price that is eight times greater than good B. Person A was able to produce good A in one day, and person B was able to produce good B in one day. So, on the open market, person A makes eight times more money than person B in the same period of time. That means consumers have judged person A to be eight times more productive than person B, even if person B worked much harder!

      So, if person A and person B happen to be working for the same company, why shouldn't their boss pay person A eight times more than person B? Why should their boss come up with some arbitrary limit?

    2. Re:I don't think it will work... by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If that were the case, the company should seriously think about producing more of good A and less of good B.

      I get that it's a hypothetical, but it's not realistic. You're trying to force a choice when that choice doesn't really need to be made... There are other options.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    3. Re:I don't think it will work... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The best "Open" corporate structure I've ever head of was a company that had a policy where no person could make more than seven times as much money as any other person in the company.

      Ben & Jerry tried that, gave it up after a few years... nobody wants to buy $23/quart ice cream and they just couldn't get competent executive management to stick around at 7x the salary of cost competitive labor.

    4. Re:I don't think it will work... by Esc7 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know by your handle this is going to fall on deaf ears but:

      Your theoretical example is perfectly logical. Unfortunately I'm having a hard time transferring it to a real world example in my company, or other companies.

      Now if one person made oranges and the other made gold bars it would make perfect sense. But people don't "make" oranges. They pick them. Or they plant them. Or they tell people when to pick them or plant them. Or they supervise people who tell other people when to pick or plant or water them. A little more complicated now right?

      What people produce isn't really goods, it is "work" that is added to things to make them more valuable. Turning a lump of clay into a statue. Turning libraries and code into programs. Turning ore into metal. Turning disparate data into a useful statistical analysis for the rest of the company.

      Unless you're talking about yesteryear artisans and craftsmen, you're going to be hard pressed to find a person who completely produces a good with no help. In fact, some would say the whole point of modern industrialization is that we take complicated things and break them down so we can move any person around and still produce the same good.

      And when the production isn't an assembly line anymore and becomes this complex web of people who do jobs which effects are near impossible to quantify, well I would say hugely differing salaries are not as defensible. Plus having this "artificial" limit tells the employees that if there is a rising tide, it will raise all ships. People like fairness and equality and the feeling that someone gives a damn about you and if this policy accomplishes that, good for them.

    5. Re:I don't think it will work... by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Imagine two goods, good A and good B, that are sold on the open market...

      I've been through the economic allegories hundreds of times before. All of us on Slashdot have. I've read the Wikipedia summary of Atlas Shrugged (sorry, I'm not reading it, too high of an opportunity cost), and have been through several semesters of college economics, accounting, and finance.

      I look around today and say to myself, I could run GM, Lehman Brothers, and AIG, into the ground just as well as anybody. Why shouldn't I get paid the big bucks like those guys? The fact is, they aren't worth what they get paid. There is some sort of flaw in that logic. If Ayn Rand was right, engineers would make more money than CEOs.

      Seven times the minimum salary isn't an "arbitrary limit", the owner of the company I mentioned spent quite a bit of time figuring out that amount. At the time I met the owner of that company he was making $350k and the janitor was making $50k. If the janitor wasn't worth $50k, he would fire him, it's that simple. He told me that the janitor was very good at his job, and had been working for him for many years.

      Policies like that encourage people to be conscientious about their work. It also reduces employee turnover, and hostility between the work force and the management. In the end, the company is more efficient because of it.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    6. Re:I don't think it will work... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taking it farther, people would only wish to be producing good A, until the point where the market for good A drops in price down to where good B and good A have roughly the same margins.

      Treating people as commodities, you have the present situation in north america. Everyone is in a pile on to be "a leader" (by which I mean CEO), to get the top dollar. Very few people want to be the scientists, engineers, accountants, factory workers, janitors, nurses, etc. required to fund that CEO because the wages are low(er). People choose career paths that will lead them there, which often neglect the company fundamentals.

      Because of this problem, we have a shortage of the types of labor we want, but to avoid the unpleasant solution (amongst decision-makers) of paying higher wages based on need, we have are providing an escape valve via globalization strategies. We can back fill exportable jobs via cheaper foreign labor by taking advantage of arbitrage. This further exacerbates the problem locally, by reinforcing the trend to CEO-type positions (and janitorial/nursing, should that prospect look dim).

      In the long run, assuming no armed revolts, it will ultimately balance out. It's clear the time constant required for stability exceeds the lifetime of most of us here on slashdot. A better solution to achieve control sooner is to reduce the discrepancies in pay, and attempt to change our cultural values away from being "the" boss, to being a solid, reliable individual who is an expert in his chosen field.

      We all know that if you have a company of 80k people, and the ceo goes from getting 100M in a year to 0 in a year, it won't make a huge impact to each employee if spread equally ($1.25k/yr), but it may make a huge impact in driving the labor market the way we need it to.

      If CEOs are chosen based on the person with the best capability of leading organizations and making decisions, other factors removed, rather than the person who most wants to make a fortune... I think good things would happen to our labor market and our corporate governance.

      This isn't quite a hippie commune mentality, wages will vary based on need and difficulty in producing qualified individuals. But it will be more stable than the rabid elitist method we currently use.

      The question is how to produce this ideal when the people who have the money and/or authority who traditionally create and profit from a top-down model won't immediately benefit (or in fact would lose out). Since the investment for software projects is very low (particularly open source), it is interesting to see how ideas like these work and how they could be applied to other areas.

    7. Re:I don't think it will work... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Informative

      Once a cornerstone of its socially responsible identity, the company removed its salary cap on the compensation of its highest paid employee in 1994. The company historically limited the salary of its highest paid employee to no more than five times the salary of the lowest paid worker (though the ratio was revised to seven-to-one in 1993). With the removal of the cap, the gap between the highest and lowest paid employee has risen to unprecedented levels. The ratio was an astounding 16-1 in 1998 and is even higher once the current value of unexercised stock options are factored in! Of course, even under the former stringent salary cap, the ratio was misleading for it did not take into account stock options for executives. http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/236/Patel,_Tupate_-_Paper.html

    8. Re:I don't think it will work... by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The reason that CEOs get paid more than they are worth is that executive compensation is really a big circle-jerk.

      A CEO of one company is typically a board member of several others. Nobody in the game is motivated to keep salaries in check because they don't want to limit their own.

      In addition, placing a current club member on your board is often required if you want to become a public company.

    9. Re:I don't think it will work... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ideally, Ben and Jerry would have found a qualified CEO that would have the same love of ice cream that they have.

      Yes. We need more qualified 4-year-olds.

  3. Re:sit on my ass by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's disconcertingly close to what I actually do.

    --
    Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
    altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
  4. There's already a name for this... by Chris+Missiles · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think the new buzzword for this is "crowdsourcing".

    1. Re:There's already a name for this... by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the new buzzword for this is "crowdsourcing".

      I was thinking more along the lines of "abandonware".

      No longer interested in being the sole contributor to your yet-another-editor software project? Send out a press release touting it as a new paradigm in "Open management"!

  5. Cool by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Funny

    They can invent "Open Bankruptcy" next. Call me when they reach "Open Assets Selloff" by the creditors.

    What? Too cynical? Is that even possible anymore?

  6. Re:Ok, I will join! by Quothz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Oh, you mean this company is not going to pay me and I should work for free?

    Read. The. Fucking. Article.

    No, really.

  7. Bzzzzzzz bzz bzzzzz bzzzz by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 3, Funny

    Or cloudsourcing. No. Crowdcomputing? Wait... Clouds of crowds sourcing computers?

  8. Re:Ok, I will join! by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You should upgrade to DaveV2.0 (I heard the feature set includes RTFA'ing).

    There is a trustrank plan for assigning compensation, which is a little farfetched, IMO. FTA:

    By basing the compensation on continuous rating by your peers, it becomes possible to start out by just participating a bit in your free time, and then gradually, as your ratings increase, spend more and more time on the project.

    The problem is that any kind of trustrank system can be gamed. This would likely degenerate into a core clique that games the system to reward themselves disproportionately -- even if the concept ever got off the ground.

    Never mind the people who make valuable contributions that are unpopular among code contributors (such as marketing, sales, accounting, etc).

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  9. Digging through the references. by Samschnooks · · Score: 3, Funny
    Digging through the references, I got here. Then I saw this

    Slashdot introduced its notion of karma, earned for activities perceived to promote group effectiveness, an approach that has been very influential in later virtual communities.

    So, to get paid more, you just say that Apple did it better and the Microsoft's version sucks and the best implementation is in Linux?

    And to get vacation do you post stuff to get "Funny" ratings like; "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of e-editors" or "In Soviet Russia the e-Editor you!" and then there's the "All your e-Editors are belong to us!"

    Yep, the Open Business, sounds like a great way for the Karma whore to make a living!

  10. Re:Seriously.. has no one read Atlas Shrugged by Hemogoblin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Getting really offtopic, but I thought I'd share this interesting Economist article regarding Atlas Shrugged.

    Atlas felt a sense of deja vu
    Feb 26th 2009
    The economic bust has caused a boom for at least one author

    BOOKS do not sell themselves: that is what films are for. "The Reader", the book that inspired the Oscar-winning film, has shot up the bestseller lists. Another recent publishing success, however, has had more help from Washington, DC, than Hollywood. That book is Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged".

    http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13185404

  11. Sounds Like an Open Co-op by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The guy doing this determines the operating expenses, including (I'd assume) their own salary. If it's really as open as they claim, all the accounting will be public, too. So anyone who wants to do some work can see how much the company is spending on those operating expenses, and the (ongoing) income statements. If they accept it as reasonable, they can do the work, or they can just not do the work.

    This principle could work. It's like a cooperative company, "employee owned", but without employees owning shares in the corporation getting dividends of the profits (income - expenses), just a direct share. Eliminating the shareholding eliminates control, but it also makes coming and going as a "profitholder" much easier.

    Of course the real problem is the "trust metric". It's a popularity rating, set by members of the group on anyone else who joins the group. Joining requires only contributing code. There's going to be a fair amount of (paid) work by group members reviewing the code to decide trust, but that's a necessary part of software quality anyway.

    The real problem is for people who contribute code (or review, or other work) who aren't rewarded with trust metrics by others in the group, perhaps because of a bias by some against others because of the type of work. If some people contribute only code, and others contribute only review, that might lead to a "class war" where one group discounts the value of the other, regardless of the (only guessable) "real" value of each kind of work to the profits being divided up. If more people review than code, even if that's not necessary, and the reviwers all have a bias in rewarding each other's work more than they reward coders, an coders don't have a bigger bias against reviewers to compensate for their smaller numbers, then reviewers will get a higher rate of reward than coders. Which could prevent any coders from contributing. Or the sizes/biases could be reversed, and reviewers could get shorted enough that no one reviews.

    I think this project goes too far all at once. If this system were familiar across our large Internet development population through its exercise within closed groups, with more permanent membership, perhaps assigned traditionally by a boss who hires, it's less likely to be torn apart by people who don't understand they're working against their own best interests. Then, once it's understood to be workable by people who understand their best interests, and not just an easy target for losers looking to game a system they merely clumsily destroy, maybe the transition from co-op to open co-op would work.

    Does anyone know of any successful closed co-ops running like this one, but centrally hired, fired and assigned shares of the profits?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  12. Re:Seriously.. has no one read Atlas Shrugged by overzero · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll read your "history book" when you watch my "documentary."

  13. Unfair. by Aladrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The system is supposed to ensure fairness by having employees rate each other, but I know how this goes simply by watching people around me, in person and in real life.

    Every 'contest' I've ever seen has been about popularity, not efficiency. They guy who sucks up to everyone and buys them beers after work will have the highest pay, while the guy who does his shitty job in silent magnificence will have one of the lowest pays. In addition, everyone in a group will rate their own group members higher than they rate other group's members. This means the biggest group will have the highest average pay as well.

    Absolutely none of it will be based on efficiency or profitability.

    That is, assuming it's truly 'open' and not just claiming it and then having the owner overrule everything anyhow.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
  14. Re:Ok, I will join! by TheSpoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This would likely degenerate into a core clique that games the system to reward themselves disproportionately -- even if the concept ever got off the ground.

    So basically, executives?

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs