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MIT To Make All Faculty Publications Open Access

Death Metal writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica: "If there were any doubt that open access publishing was setting off a bit of a power struggle, a decision made last week by the MIT faculty should put it to rest. Although most commercial academic publishers require that the authors of the works they publish sign all copyrights over to the journal, Congress recently mandated that all researchers funded by the National Institutes of Health retain the right to freely distribute their works one year after publication (several foundations have similar requirements). Since then, some publishers started fighting the trend, and a few members of Congress are reconsidering the mandate. Now, in a move that will undoubtedly redraw the battle lines, the faculty of MIT have unanimously voted to make any publications they produce open access."

58 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. Hats of for MIT by unity100 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    now that's the kind of university that one would want his/her children to go to.

    1. Re:Hats of for MIT by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 4, Funny

      Unless the are copyright capitalist barbarians.

      --
      The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
    2. Re:Hats of for MIT by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, because I would have been devastated to see my kids attend MIT before this.

    3. Re:Hats of for MIT by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      The girls are much hotter at Stanford. Of course, given that you're a math geek, arrogant, and also a Slashdotter, that's unlikely to be a factor for you anyway.

    4. Re:Hats of for MIT by zeldor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      for computer science I would say yes rice is a better option.
      do undergrad there, save the money, then go on to master and postdoc
      at either stanford or MIT.

      --
      If I could walk that way I wouldnt need cologne.
    5. Re:Hats of for MIT by moosesocks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've said this many times before:

      If you send your kids to MIT, have them study marketing.

      MIT's engineering program might be quite good -- I have no reason to doubt this. However, the amount of PR buzz that the school generates is disproportional to the amount of research that they produce, especially compared to similar institutions. Their marketing people must be very good.

      As an aside, I should also grumble here about my ethical issues with an institution of learning that charges $45,000/year, and intentionally limits the number of students it takes on, despite having a pool of applicants that (by their own admission) are perfectly qualified to attend.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    6. Re:Hats of for MIT by frosty_tsm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As opposed to the comp sci major unwashed stereotype? :-)

      My experience has been that there are different tiers. Schools within a given tier are going to have comparable program quality (but one's style might match you better). Generally speaking, going to any school within the top 50 or 100 for a field will result in a good education. Also, some schools are higher in their ranks because of their research. However, graduate students benefit from this far more than undergrad students do.

      I will say this, though. Being in the real world with a lot less college debt is nice.

    7. Re:Hats of for MIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Unless the are copyright capitalist barbarians.

      In which case they go to Harvard.

    8. Re:Hats of for MIT by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Funny

      For a second there I could have sworn you said Harry Mudd and was going to ask what their rates for androids was.

    9. Re:Hats of for MIT by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As an aside, I should also grumble here about my ethical issues with an institution of learning that charges $45,000/year, and intentionally limits the number of students it takes on, despite having a pool of applicants that (by their own admission) are perfectly qualified to attend.

      WTF? You're complaining that they don't have infinite capacity? There's a limit to how many professors and classrooms even a $45K tuition can buy, you know!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    10. Re:Hats of for MIT by Paua+Fritter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, Harvard mandated Open Access in 2008.

      Dirty communists!

  2. Thank you! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This should put to rest any concerns that closed access journals protect the interests of the authors.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Thank you! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hey, what about authors that have an interest in surrendering their copyright, paying page fees, being threatened if they dare post a copy of their own paper on their website, and doing peer review for free for for-profit journals?

      What about them, huh? Are they not people too?

  3. Finally by Vornzog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a major blow to an industry with an outdated business model. Scientific publication is starting to move beyond the need for the middleman, and I am extremely glad to see it happen.

    That said, the major publishers will scramble to try and patch this hole in the business model, and they will probably make the overall situation worse before it really starts to improve.

    Oh well. Got to start that process at some point. Go MIT.

    --

    -V-

    Who can decide a priori? Nobody.
    -Sartre

    1. Re:Finally by magisterx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I fully agree that this is a major step forward, I would hesitate before saying this will or should remove the middle man. Remember the journals currently organize much of the peer review and handle vetting and editing functions. Their business model should and must change, but that does not mean they are obsolete just yet.

    2. Re:Finally by Samschnooks · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a major blow to an industry with an outdated business model. Scientific publication is starting to move beyond the need for the middleman, and I am extremely glad to see it happen.

      That said, the major publishers will scramble to try and patch this hole in the business model, and they will probably make the overall situation worse before it really starts to improve.

      Oh well. Got to start that process at some point. Go MIT.

      Nothing personal to you, sir or madame. I see "outdated business model" time and time again on Slashdot as an euphemism for basically saying "not offering something for free".

      First of all, business models do not become outdated. They may become worthless because someone has started doing business another way that eliminates one from making money from their current way of doing business. For example, in the beginning of the Internets, folks were charging for content. Then, someone had the brilliant idea that they don't have to charge and they'll have advertising. Thereby making most sites who charged the consumer for the content "outdated" and thereby making everyone else lose money. Then again, tell that to these guys

      Now consider this, many folks are becoming independent contractors and doing crafts and whatnot at home to make a living - just like the pre-19th century factory system. Outdated indeed.

      There's no such thing as an outdated business model. MIT is financing these publications by other means, that's all. Also, exactly how much does it really cost to publish this stuff online? The authors aren't paid. What are the costs associated? I don't think this is such a sacrifice for MIT or any other institution that does this.

    3. Re:Finally by godrik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do not agree in this case. The model is clearly outdated (in the sens not good for today). It had meaning before when there was no Internet. Accessing articles was expensive because you had to print journal issues.

      Today, we no longer use paper version but mainly electronic one. So the only thing the publisher provides is an electronic access to publications. But, universities and laboratories can do that them self.

      So why are we still using "private" journals? The only reasonable answer is : reputation. A journal such as Nature or Transaction on computers are well known. It is know that the editorial board only select top quality papers. But, one should recall that the editorial board IS NOT the journal itself but professors and researchers spread all over the world which do the job for free.

      Why not switch to per university (but peer reviewed) publication without the editors ?

      We could take the editorial board of a good journal and make an independent journal. The problem is research evaluation. It is currently done through crappy index such as the impact factor. A new publication method will badly perform according to this index and thus research will be badly evaluated.

      You need to be a prestigious university to say : "we do not want this model anymore". And that is what the MIT is doing which is great.

      PS: The publishers currently propose some minor correction to fit into a given format or to check for grammatical errors. This could be done by universities too. (or research lab, or independant foundation...)

    4. Re:Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember the journals currently organize much of the peer review and handle vetting and editing functions.

      There are better solutions for those services too.

    5. Re:Finally by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Also, exactly how much does it really cost to publish this stuff online? The authors aren't paid. What are the costs associated?

      More than you might think. While the costs of storage and bandwidth can be modest if you already have a significant IT infrastructure to co-opt a portion of... You still need to pay someone to design and operate the site. An institution the size of MIT will be producing a great deal of material, and that means you'll need a paid professional running the site. It's not an amateur hour job.
       
      Then there are the costs that most people who invoke 'publishing online' rarely realize even exist.*
       
      Working backwards from content ready to deliver to the webmaster - you have editorial costs, someone has to ensure the papers are ready for publication. Again, with the size and prestige of MIT that means paid professionals to ensure and maintain quality results and timely completion. This isn't somebodies blog or live journal where it's no biggie if that essay you promised your readers in the spring would be ready by the 4th of July - but doesn't actually appear until Labor Day, and they forgive minor spelling, grammatical, and design errors and flaws.
       
      Even before it gets to that stage - you need somebody to organize peer reviews. And again, with an institution the size of MIT that will be a non trivial task and likely one or more full time professional positions.
       
      Etc... etc... Content doesn't magically appear on the website, complete and finished. There's quite a bit of work and more than a few people 'behind the scenes'.
       
      Now being MIT, they can probably pawn some of this off onto undergrads, reducing the cost. Some of it will be work added to already existing positions, and thus while the cost may end up being obscured they are still there.

      * My impression that a majority of netizens spend the majority of their time where the background work is performed by volunteers, and the content is provided, prepared, and maintained by users and volunteers. They really have no idea just how fast the costs mount when you actually have to pay people to do the work. Just as an example - for a lark, while I was editing Wikipedia actively, I kept track of the time I spent editing in one month... And found I'd spent nearly 35 hours over the course of that month editing or doing research for the articles I was editing. At current local minimum wage ($8.55), Wikipedia would owe me (one very low volume casual editor) $300 - and that's just the direct costs and does not account for overhead or the costs of the related research materials!

    6. Re:Finally by Vornzog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see "outdated business model" time and time again on Slashdot as an euphemism for basically saying "not offering something for free".

      I do not speak for the Slashdot gestalt. When I write 'outdated business model', I mean 'founded on pre-internet artificial scarcity'. That doesn't mean free, it just means *both* the supply and demand curves shift quite a bit, and the places in the system where there are profitable opportunities shift. This applies to the MPAA, the RIAA, the scientific publishing industry, and a whole bunch more.

      Scientific publishing, in particular, makes money from both the author and the reader. They got greedy, claiming that they are the only way to distribute to the end reader, and that they are also the only way to set up a peer review. Both assumptions are wrong, and are now easy to get around, thanks to the internet.

      First of all, business models do not become outdated. They may become worthless because someone has started doing business another way that eliminates one from making money from their current way of doing business.

      If a business model was profitable, but now it is not due to advances in technology, it is outdated. Its time has passed. It is an ex-business model. It is pining for the fjords. It has gone to the great golden spike in the sky where all technologically inflexible business models must eventually go.

      Now consider this, many folks are becoming independent contractors and doing crafts and whatnot at home to make a living - just like the pre-19th century factory system. Outdated indeed.

      You picked a perfect example to illustrate my point. Pre-19th century, if you wanted a sweater, someone had to knit it. 21st century, if you want a handmade sweater, someone has to knit it. But the supply of handmade sweaters, which take a long time to knit, is far outstripped by the demand for sweaters.

      There are those of us who, recognizing the lost opportunity cost of spending hundreds of dollars for a handmade sweater, realize that we can get a machine-made sweater for a fraction of the cost. We substitute a similar product.

      The price of handmade sweaters is a supply side problem. The price of machine-made sweaters is a demand-side problem. The business models for these things are radically different due to the introduction of technology into the process. Handmade clothes are an art form, and are priced appropriately. Machine made clothes are a commodity and enjoy shatteringly larger profitability due to economies of scale.

      Building a business model centered around high demand for high priced sweaters is just silly. It *would* have been a viable business model prior to the industrial revolution and the amazing rise of the textile industry, but it won't work now. It is outdated. That doesn't mean it isn't a business plan - it's just a silly one that won't work any more.

      Scientific publishing will change. The publishers will find a way to adapt their business model and continue to publish, or will flail about with an outdated business model and they will perish. As in science, so it goes in scientific publishing: Publish or Perish.

      --

      -V-

      Who can decide a priori? Nobody.
      -Sartre

  4. Darned Liberals by OldFish · · Score: 5, Funny

    They're setting America on a path to certain destruction. Why how's a good, god-fearing businessman gonna make a buck if he can't do it by reselling publicly funded publications???

    I think the businessmen have tried to close public access to NOAA data too.

    1. Re:Darned Liberals by Yamamato · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why was this modded troll? Did someone miss that whooshing sound in their ears?

    2. Re:Darned Liberals by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, they did. Accuweather had their pet senator Santorum(yes, he's good for more than bizarre comments about homosexuals) sponsor S.768. This would have forbidden the NOAA from providing publicly funded data to the public.

  5. Unanimous? by dexmachina · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As much as I congratulate MIT on this, I'd be interested to see the official vote tally. MIT's faculty is rather largeish, and the article itself says that faculty are caught in the middle between the need for funding and the need for exposure. There's no way in hell that vote was unanimous. Sounds more like the motion passed by a simple majority, someone introduced one of those silly, "Motion to declare the outcome of this vote unanimous," motions, which was then passed by the same people. That's just speculation, but seriously...not one single dissenter on the entire faculty? No way.

    1. Re:Unanimous? by EvilDrew · · Score: 5, Informative

      The vote was unanimous at the March 18th faculty meeting: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/open-access-0320.html

    2. Re:Unanimous? by LateArthurDent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the article itself says that faculty are caught in the middle between the need for funding and the need for exposure

      The article says nothing of the sort. It says the line is being drawn between publishers and funding groups. Funding groups want open access precisely because it brings the papers more exposure, without the barrier of a paid journal subscription.

      The publishers are the only ones on the other side. Basically, their business model made sense before the internet, because the most efficient way to read papers was to have a subscription to a journal and read the physical copy. Today, the most efficient method is to just download the thing, and distribution costs are minimum. Peer review can still go on, since most editors for closed journals are volunteer professors (I remember my advisor offloading papers for me to review. He would still look over everything, but it saved him time, and got me experience).

      Also, unlike **AA members, authors of scientific papers don't get paid for each individual copy people buy, so all they really want is for their paper to be read by a large number of people, which increases their chances of being cited, of their work getting exposure, and of getting increased funding.

      Really...the only people who want closed journals are the owners of the closed journals.

  6. De facto standard already? by vsage3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many of the professors I know of host copies of their publications on their lab websites for all to view. Perhaps this decision by MIT is the first of its type officially, but it's hardly new.

  7. Computer Science by zerojoker · · Score: 3, Informative

    My notion of Computer Science is, that you will always find published papers on the homepages of the relevant authors. Regardless, of what the publishers say. If the publishers make you require sign away your copyright you will almost always find the relevant paper either in some "draft version" or some "technical report", slightly reformulated but essentially the same.

    I always thought that this is the standard also in other disciplines. What is the publication standard in other disciplines?

    1. Re:Computer Science by MrHanky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Standard? No. And as there's no standard way for how a web page should be organised, there's no standard way to find such articles, and no guarantee that they won't disappear tomorrow. Would you take the chance to cite a paper that's not even properly published?

      MIT's decision will hopefully mean that you'll find the electronic version through the library's database, with persistent links that don't disappear when a professor moves to a different university.

    2. Re:Computer Science by SoVeryTired · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's the same in Mathematics. You'll usually find a selection of "preprints" of a lecturer's most recent work, along with copies of his or her best-known papers.

      Typically, in order to lay claim to anything they're working on, an academic will upload a paper to ArXiv.org as soon as they possibly can. ArXiv is a site which allows access to preprints in maths, computer science, physics, dynamical systems etc...

      It isn't peer-reviewed though, so it's still necessary to publish in a journal.

      --
      Slashdot: news for Apple. Stuff that Apple.
    3. Re:Computer Science by ZombieWomble · · Score: 2, Informative
      On every paper I've been associated with (admittedly not many since I'm relatively new to this "science" malarky), the copyright signing over was related to a particular instance of the paper - that is, you signed away copyright not for the work as a whole, but the particular formatting and attributions which appear in the journal.

      Simply processing it in a different stylefile and removing any mention of the journal it's actually published in is sufficient to address this concern, meaning a "preprint" style formatting is perfectly acceptable to publish on your own page, or somewhere like arxiv.org (a point some of them explicitly acknowledge - and even seem to encourage somewhat).

      If this is the status quo elsewhere, this isn't really as dramatic a step as MIT would like to make it out to be.

  8. Too f&*(ing right ! by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's about time that publicly funded research make it back into the public domain. I'm sick and tired of my tax money going to enriching institutions of higher learning, and big Pharma (and other corporations) and seeing nothing in return but more generally useless, largely unnecessary, and unjustifiably expensive drugs, not to mention huge salaries.

  9. Good arguments against open access? by Tragek · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have a really hard time coming up with good arguments against open access publishing. Do they exist? Or are all arguments against flat out support of the publishers' business model?

    1. Re:Good arguments against open access? by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Running journals costs a lot of money and a lot of peoples time. You need editors to go over papers and to submit them to referees. Then you need editors to harass referees who aren't reviewing things in a timely fashion. Then you need editors to work with authors to make sure that everything in the paper is presented well. This is a lot of time and aggravation. If you aren't paying people to do this (as you get with a journal that is subscription) you either need to a) have a pay for review cost which creates a serious barrier for authors who are amateurs or are from schools with less funding or b) get volunteers to do thankless, time-consuming work, which is hard to do (working as an editor isn't something that helps get tenure that much). So yes, there are definite advantages to the closed source model.

    2. Re:Good arguments against open access? by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd buy point (a) if there wasn't a practice of journals charging authors for the ability to publish (which they pay in order to continue to have a career). I'd agree with point (b) if the peer reviewers were paid. There may be advantages to the closed source model, but neither of those are it.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Good arguments against open access? by professionalfurryele · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Publishing is expensive. Peer review is expensive. If you want to have high quality widely distributed science you need both. However, as a scientist myself I don't think this on it's own is a good argument against open access.

      Bottom line is we need a new way to do publish science, and such a system is evolving. There are a number of journals that are online only, or release copies of work for free (for example JHEP). The current system is only really viable for the big name journals (and many of these are frankly sacrificing the quality of the work they accept to move more copies). This new way probably wont look that different from the old way, but will probably be a similar model to the one JHEP uses now.

      Of course things are easier sciences like physics or maths than they are in biology which is why things move faster. For a start, in biology (especially biotech) there is a real push to keep things that might be profitable secret as long as possible. In addition scripts in biological sciences are often provided with no mark up conveying the authors intent. It is much easier to adjust for publication a latex file already marked up for you than it is to deal with a word file (which is why many journals in physics basically insist you hand over a tex file). This and other factors adds to the expense, which makes a more closed process more desirable.

      Bottom line is the scientific publishing industry is going to have to change. The scientists all want it to change. They want it to be cheaper to access because they want people to read their work (and cite it!). They want it online because paper copies are a pain in the backside and harder to obtain. And they are by and large both supplier and customer. If journals both big and small don't start moving towards a lower cost, more open system then the internet and new technologies will allow someone else to.

    4. Re:Good arguments against open access? by lfp98 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A typical NIH grant is $200,000 per year and if you expect to get your grant renewed, you better be publishing 3 papera a year. Open access fees are now ~$3000 per paper even at nonprofit journals (and they still claim to be losing money on it), so that's $9,000 a year, about 5% of your grant, just to publish your results.

    5. Re:Good arguments against open access? by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Informative

      While all of that is technically true, I was under the impression that in almost no circumstances are academic journal editors or reviewers paid for their work. Rather, to sit on the editorial board of a prestigious journal is considered its own reward.

      From what I have heard, even the publishers don't present it that way. Publishers (Blackwell Synergy, Wiley, ScienceDirect, etc.) aren't editors. Editors are academics. The publishers argue that journal costs pay for the actual cost of distribution, as well as the cost of organizing all the editors, reviewers, etc.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    6. Re:Good arguments against open access? by bigbigbison · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At least in the humanities none of these really apply. Editors don't get paid. They get to put a line on their CV that said they were an editor. It counts as part of their tenure (not as much as publishing but it counts).

      In almost all journals you have to subscribe to it in order to get your paper published.

      You also almost always have to sign away your rights to that intellectual property. If you want to go back to that paper and turn it into a book? You have to get permission from the publisher.

      Your university wants to make it available to everyone affiliated with the university? The library has to pay to get access to it. So the university (in part, in addition to teaching and such) is paying you to write the paper and get it published and then they are paying a company to get access to it. Of course they get access to lots of other journals too.

      there are few if any good reasons for academic publishing to stay closed.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
  10. its a policy, not a mandate by peter303 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The original article I read said they would encourage MIT faculty and students to put their articles on a MIT-supplied website and back authors to obtain copyright permission. However, they weren't going to abrogate copyright contracts of existing articles and put the stuff out there without permission of the copyright holder. As more and more major institutions get on board this will back the expensive, commercial journals into a corner.

    A possible compromise with the journals might be a 6 to 12 month delay before it goes on the MIT site.

  11. irony of growing "closed stack" research libraries by peter303 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am currently not affiliated with an university and have noticed increased difficulty in reading research journals at nearby libraries. The main culprit is online storage. Almost all the research libraries allow physical public patron access. But I can only read the online journals if I purchase a university computer account. I estimate over the past five years from the shrinkage of the magazine racks, half of the library journal subscriptions are only online now.

  12. medical is worst culprit by peter303 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Computer and engineering journals are fairly receptive to open publication. However, the medical journal industry is viciously protective. Pre-publication of articles threatens rejection and potential loss of priority rights. A lot of this is due to biotech which seeks to keep new technology hidden as long as possible. A number of people with fatal illness have complained to congressmen about the difficulty of accessing research on their diseases.

  13. econ by Main+Gauche · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is the same in many other disciplines. In economics, for example, this kind of story is non-news.

    For the past 10+ years, even most "old fashioned" journals allow you to post your paper, as long as you post some blurb acknowledging that you passed copyright to the publisher. That arrangement worked out just fine. As an academic, who cares who has the copyright; just give me the paper!

    Even for journals that did not offer this, authors would blatantly post their paper anyway. Yet I never once heard of a publisher going to an economist and asking them to alter their personal web page. (Yeah, yeah, insert "nobody reads the paper anyway" joke here.)

    More recently, the field of economics has seen open-access e-journals popping up everywhere. The writing is on the wall, as to the future of access.

    Finally, our school is in negotiations to make all publications open-access. This isn't just some faculty declaration; we're working on actually doing it. I imagine other schools are doing the same. So like I said, this is non-news to an insider.

  14. This is going to hurt smaller research groups a lo by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm a small-fry researcher at a small-fry university. Without name recognition, what gets my research read is the fact that I can (occasionally, when it's worthy) get it into a name-brand journal where approval of the referees signifies real merit. Without that exposure, no matter how good my research is, it will be very difficult to get it widely read because evaluation of quality takes serious time and thought -- time that most researchers are not willing to spend on every paper on Arxiv posted by any yahoo.

    The converse is also true -- I use the journal's screening to figure out what to read because I don't have time to read every single thing, even preliminarily. The most cursory reading of a novel scientific paper is ~10 minutes, and even then, I've probably just read the abstract, skimmed the figures and then jumped to the conclusion. You can't seriously expect me to do that for every vaguely relevant paper in the field -- I just can't. So if there is an important paper that I should read, I count on the journals to bring it to my attention.

    IMO, what will actually happen is that a free/open system is that the loss of the imprimatur of journal publication will mean increased reliance on other ways to quickly evaluate works. Without name-brand journals, name-recognition will become even more important, which will lead to even more of the sort of "superstar" science in which funding and interest is ever more concentrated in a few research groups.

    I'm quite happy with the current system, warts and all -- we pay the journals to do the insanely laborious task of filtering through all the submissions and providing us with a reasonable subset that represent (with some measurement error) the most salient works.

  15. Free to boot by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, I said "free". For those interested in getting an education from MIT in any course/degree offered, go to MIT OpenCourseWare for full free access to all material needed to learn whatever the school has to offer.

    Certification and faculty attention, however, is kinda pricy.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
  16. This is good and bad by NotNormallyNormal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I see this as good and bad.

    It is generally a good thing that the research gets out and is seen by as many people as possible. Show me a person off the street who is going to care about some paper on quantum mechanics, however. The scientists and researchers are generally going to have access to these papers in some fashion anyway, via university library electronic journal access or professional groups that they may be a part of (such as the ACM).

    The bad thing is that journals may selectively not publish papers they would have previously accepted from a researcher if they require open access. You may not think this is that important. They can find a different place to publish. Things aren't that simple when it comes down to it though. Faculty and research hires and promotions are often based on WHICH journals you publish in as much as how much you publish. As a young researcher I would hate to lose out to someone for a tenured position because they published a few less papers in higher profile journals but I had to publish in lower ranked journals because of open access.

  17. Re:This is going to hurt smaller research groups a by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm quite happy with the current system, warts and all -- we pay the journals to do the insanely laborious task of filtering through all the submissions and providing us with a reasonable subset that represent (with some measurement error) the most salient works.

    Do you? Or do you pay journal to organize unpaid reviewers to determine the quality of submissions, and to cover the cost of distribution? Because I thought that most reviewers and editors don't get paid.

    The point is that now distribution costs can be close to nil, but subscription prices keep increasing. I don't see why an open-access journal that was not affiliated with a commercial publisher could not accomplish the same thing, and maintain the quality of articles. The "imprimatur" will simply no longer come courtesy of a commercial publisher - the brand name, e.g., "Well-Respected Journal of X" can persist. After all, it is not the publisher that provides the quality, but the editors and reviewers.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  18. Geek girls IMHO are some of the hottest. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They may not spend as much time with makeup and outfits as the uberbimbos. But IMHO their bodies are often quite as functional. Even more so: Brains have a lot to do with that.

    Tracing the individual variations on peripheral neural pathways and working out their operation is even more fun (for both) when the tracee knows and appreciates what is going on and can give additional feedback beyond the basic flushes, indrawn breath, postures, erections, secretions, etc. And there's such synergy when the partner can reciprocate.

    Being able to have an intelligent conversation can be far better afterplay than smoking cigarettes. (Though sometimes it DOES distract.)

    Then there's the love for gadgets, tool-making, and tool use. (For instance: It's not a coincidence that some of the largest and most active consensual BDSM communities formed in Silicon Valley and other tech centers and organized over the net and email, or that some of the big names in tech are major participants. Did you really think all that pron on the intertubes was just frustrated geeks who COULDN'T get any? B-) But even if such tastes are more common with geek girls it's far from a universal attraction. So use care bringing it up.)

    But one of the hottest things about geek girls is that they can appreciate a geek's mind and tend to be attracted - indeed, turned on - by a good one. If said male geek can reciprocate, treating her as a valued team member rather than someone to play smarter-than-you-nyah mind games on, it's the foundation of a solid long-term relationship.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  19. Publishers stewing in their own blood... by bradbury · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One can argue that this is a stew of the publishers' own making. When you charge on the order of $20-30+ to receive a copy of a single article (which presumably costs pennies to distribute) then you are asking for a backlash. I applaud MIT for stepping up to the plate and suggest that the other Ivy League schools do so as well. Though the PLoS work which I believe is largely based at Stanford suggests that this is already in progress.

    Even PNAS is slowly increasing its public access articles (and with acknowledgement, their archives are largely open). So the public (and students) have much more access to scientific information than they once did. This does not however keep some publishing groups (e.g. Nature) from going in different directions. It appears to me as if Nature is on a path of only publishing commissioned articles [1] for review which may be very difficult for University's or Government's to regulate.

    I would challenge Nature's publishers -- here and in public -- "When and how do you intend to implement an open access policy?"

    1. It could be argued that Science is only a step behind.

  20. What about academic freedom? by yali · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm a big fan of the move toward open access. But I worry about the precedent for academic freedom.

    Think about it: a university is establishing rules and giving itself oversight over where faculty can publish. From the article: "Anybody who wants to publish with a journal that refuses to grant these rights will have to submit a written request for an exception to the MIT provost." Imagine 2 faculty members who want to publish papers in journals that do not cooperate with MIT's policy. One does popular research that the provost likes, the other does controversial research that the provost doesn't like. Why should the fate of these 2 faculty's research be left in the provost's hands?

    Like I said, I agree with the goal, but I worry that this is a lousy way to reach it.

    1. Re:What about academic freedom? by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But I worry about the precedent for academic freedom.

      The fact that I can find all the world's knowledge online except academic publications is far worse! The purpose of a Univeristy is to increase the knowledge available to mankind. Various sorts of academic freedom are important for that goal, but that freedom is a means, not the goal.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:What about academic freedom? by jhfry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to rain on your tirade, but this policy was UNANIMOUSLY approved by the same faculty it would effect. Perhaps the, very bright, faculty of MIT actually liked the policy and felt it was fair to everyone. Perhaps they considered what you have said, and found that the policy was fair or that your issues were unfounded. Somehow, I think that the faculty of MIT understand the ramifications of this policy and feel that it is 'good'.

      Not a whole lot can be said against any restrictive policy that has the unanimous support of all of those the policy restricts.

      --
      Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    3. Re:What about academic freedom? by blueskies · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The precedent here is: if the institution doesn't like how a journal does business, it can restrict faculty from publishing at that journal.

      Since there is open access, i think the faculty can try publishing at that journal. If that journal asks them to sign over their rights to the publication, they won't be able to.

      So actually the journal is preventing them from publishing, not MIT. In fact depending on how open the paper is, can't the journals just reprint the paper?

  21. Evolutionary pressure now comes into play. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    More universities MUST join this. Preferably, a number of state universities. At that point, congressmen will have a difficult time saying no to this.

    IMHO, now that it is started, evolutionary pressure comes into play.

    Those who publish their works online, quickly, with broad access, will be more available for reference from other works, compared to those who wait for journal publication. Their good works will get a higher citation rate and sometimes priority. Such feathers in their cap will selectively advance their careers and retard those of their journal-publishing peers. (Just as journal publishing replaced things like anagram-publication to claim priority without actually making the work public.)

    This will work even better if the peer-review function can be disconnected from the print-journal publication and ported to an electronic publication model. That would avoid burying the respectable work in the chaff and aid in search filtering as well as re-enabling the manual method at electronic network, rather than print library, speeds.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  22. Editors, Authors, Referees by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Have you submitted an article to a peer-reviewed scientific journal? Have you been a referee for such an article? I have been in both roles, and more than once. Your view of an editor's work is not consistent with my experiences.

    As a referee, I was never harassed by an editor. At first, they simply ask if you're willing to referee a paper, and ask you to suggest a different referee if you are unwilling to be referee yourself. If you accept, you're expected to give a reasoned assessment of the article within a few weeks. They typically use several referees, so if there's a laggard, it does not matter. Most referees are conscientious and timely (I and my colleagues are).

    As an author, you are expected to follow the guidelines which the journal publishes. Most of them provide LaTeX or Word templates, and strict typesetting guidelines on figures, headings, citations, captions, etc. If you don't follow their guidelines, your article will be rejected by a secretary who will politely provide the formatting guidelines. It won't even reach the editor and certainly won't go out for peer review.

    Oh, I also know editors of a few journals personally (including two journals I have published in, but I met the editors long afterwards at conferences). None of them ever mentioned any need for harassment of authors or referees. They did need to harass their own employees (fill the advertising space, dammit!) and subcontractors (this is printed on SC paper, I said to use coated stock!). That's where the time is spent.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  23. i dunno by leecho0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I were a publisher, I'd want the smartest minds in the world to publish in my journal.

    I'm sure people would want to read what the geniuses at MIT are doing, and the publishers will have to choose between losing subscribers or making the requirements more lax.

    MIT's one of the few schools in the world that can pull off something like this. Most people choose schools because of rankings, and rankings are mostly based on the number of publications, so schools are not very likely to risk lowering their ranking for an ideology. But MIT doesn't care. No one would pay any college ranking that doesn't end with MIT or Caltech.

  24. Include MIT Press Journals? by iliketrash · · Score: 2

    Does this include the MIT Press Journals e.g. Presence http://www.mitpressjournals.org/loi/pres?

  25. Re:This is going to hurt smaller research groups a by Sheafification · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Whether or not editors get paid varies based on the discipline as well as the journal. In my area (mathematics) a few journals may pay editors, but most do not. Editors, just like referees, work voluntarily; except that editors get the prestige of having their name associated with a well-known journal.

    Also, I think you vastly overestimate the cost of running a journal. In math there have been a few cases of mass resignations of editorial boards (essentially killing the journal), and a brand-new journal springing up to take its place. Remarkably, these new journals that are basically equivalent to the old ones manage to charge 5 or 10 (!) times less to get the same job done.

    Journal prices have been rising out of proportion with actual publishing costs for a long time now.