Slashdot Mirror
With a Computer Science Degree, an Old Man At 35?
GrApHiX42 writes "I pissed away my 20s and now I want to go to school and get a bachelor's degree in computer science. The thing is, I'll be 35 when I get out of school, and I've read on numerous sites that there seems to be some ageism going on in the IT industry when it comes to older geeks. What have some of the 'older' Slashdot readers experienced as far as being replaced or just plain not getting hired because IT is a 'young man's game'?"
Great, great, response. I know the poster is not asking whether or not he/she should do it, and I'm not really an "older" reader (currently trying not to piss my 20's away), but perhaps they'll find this useful as well.
You have a blessing in front of you in having a strong desire to do something, namely, to go to school and get your CS degree. If that's what you are passionate about right now then you need to take advantage of that energy and do it, because you'll make the most effective use of your effort by doing so. I am at a top CS program and many of my classmates are so-called "non-traditional" (read: have more life experience than your average student) students, and not only are they often the ones setting the curve, they ask the best questions, they are motivated, they take advantage of the opportunities available to them better than most, and all in all they enrich the quality of our program.
Some advice I might offer as a young student. Most of my friends who are older students tend to be a bit disconnected from the rest of the University. Don't make that mistake: as much as you might think so, you're not a graduate student, even if you're the same age as them, and your academic life does not only revolve around your department. At the very least, you'll have to fill gen ed requirements. More importantly, as an undergraduate, the university has resources that can be very helpful and enriching to your education. Make friends with some (highly motivated) younger students (even outside your dept) who tend to be more aware of these things and can help you get more connected.
You should be focused on your objective. But undergraduate college years are an excellent time to take some risks and go different directions than you may have previously seen yourself going. Do that: universities are breeding grounds for opportunity, and you might be surprised at what doors you might open for yourself by trying something new.
Good luck!
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
When it comes down to it, experience will trump a degree anyday... Let's face it... A degree means you were taught how things *should* work. Real world experience teaches you how things *really* work. The only way to get that real world experience is to do it.
If you don't have the experience, or just want the degree, then the degree is worth it.
However, please don't wave the degree around saying that "I, who have a degree, will trump you, who doesn't, every time". It's just not going to work out that way.
Now, if you have your degree, and experience then it's a more equal footing, and let the best person win. If a place only looks at the degree, then chances are, they're missing out on some of the most talented people in the field.
In 24 years, I've received job offers for every job I've interviewed for, and that's without any kind of degree, unless you count real world experience. I was lucky in that I was able to pick the job I wanted, and do the things I want to do. I work in a field that I've chosen as a hobby, as well as where my aptitude and interests are. It's fun to go to work on most days, and a learning experience, even on the days that aren't so fun.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
Speaking as someone who interviews candidates at a technology company, I can tell you we don't give a damn how old someone is if they're good at the job. Make sure you take on large projects and/or internships during school so you have usable experience once you get out and you'll be fine.
Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
The Urban Hippie
Wow. That was completely uncalled for. Did you even pay attention at all>? Or did you read that one sentence, then decide to go off on a tirade? You obviously missed that I was pointing to the generation prior to home computers existing. I even ended my post with:
"Of course, the younger generation is getting older. So it's getting more and more common to see older programmers."
If you'd taken time to apply a critical eye to my post, you would have realized that I was referring to a traditional view brought on by a factual smaller size in workforce. When the number of computer-related jobs booms with the advent of the personal computer, is there any wonder that the young people growing up with those computers boom along with it? (You know, like yourself?)
I do not believe that age is a determining factor for the skill of a programmer. And as you quite aptly proved, age is also not a factor in determining if someone is an oversensitive jerk or not.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The article was discussed here last week: Brain Decline Begins At Age 27.
Have you ever talked to a 21 year old?
Because I have. They hire plenty of them at my company and they are invariably about as smart as a bag of hammers. They're fairly obedient and most have a pretty good work ethic though, and their long term loyalty to the company was killed long ago.
I'm 41 and I will take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week and twice on Saturday at 7am. We can start with a one page written (in English, using appropriate grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation) paper correlating the business of IT for the IT associated with their business. Maybe follow that with filling in a circle with all the major degree arcs (0, 30, 45, 60, 90, etc) and then penciling in the tan(), sin(), cos() at those points. While we are banging out math without the calculators, we can swing by the Kwik-E-Mart and buy random amounts of goods, pay for it with a 20 and see who can calculate the change we're going to get back faster, or maybe speed fill in the boxes in a multiplication table that goes up to 12x12. Random memorization not a good test? Ok lets switch it up to something more business appropriate, such as generalizing the differences between event driven programming and object oriented programming, or perhaps why using binary implementations to represent money isn't the brightest idea, and why overnormalizing a database used for reporting is going to result in unreasonably long wait times during the batch cycle. Maybe top if off with simply Googling each other and finding just how many pictures of us doing stupid (or illegal) shit on the net we can find of each other - because if anything says sharp as a tack, it's posting pictures of myself taking hits from the bong with seven gold medals around my neck.
Age and wisdom vs. youth and treachery - I will put my money on the old guy for the win.
-x-
Here's the easiest way to see it : ever watch a three year old playing with a ball in the living room? When the ball goes under the coffee table, and the kid goes under to get it - you know exactly what is going to happen next. The kid is going to stand up, full speed, and bang the hell out of his head on the underside of the table. It is going to happen faster than you can do anything to stop it, you wish you could jump down there to prevent it but you can't, and sure enough - BAM! followed by half an hour of crying. You knew it was going to happen before it even happened, you knew the kid didn't have a clue and was in for a world of hurt, and all you could do was watch it happen. The kid doesn't even know what he doesn't know yet, and at three years old simply believes the world revolves around him. Fast forward 20 years and it's the same story - different tabletops, different headaches.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer