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Data Center Raid About Unpaid Telco Fees

Posted by timothy on from the that's-what-they-want-you-to-believe dept.

craig writes "CBS11 News reports that the raid on Core IP networks is in the result of an investigation into unpaid telco access fees paid by CLECs and VoIP carriers to terminate calls on their networks. They also report that this raid is linked to the March 12th raid on Crydon Technology's datacenter, which also hosted VOIP providers. Anyone in the telco business will tell you access fees to other carriers are a total mess and lots of carriers have unpaid balances out there. It gives you the feeling that the FBI is acting as a collection agency for AT&T and Verizon."

15 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Favors by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It gives you the feeling that the FBI is acting as a collection agency for AT&T and Verizon

    Well, AT&T and Verizon did "favors" - Patriot Act - for the FBI, perhaps this is the FBI payin' them back?

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    1. Re:Favors by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In that case, the NSA is probably on the way as well.

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  2. Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So yesterday this very story was on how the FBI was acting as the RIAA's paid hitmen. Today we get a story about how theyre collection agents for AT&T (but no comments about wiretapping? im disappointed). I look forward to tomorrows article, Im sure it will be filled with useful, non-speculative bullshit. Incidentally, isnt it sort of in the FBI's realm to investigate large-scale fraud?

    1. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by j0nb0y · · Score: 5, Interesting

      /. wasn't upset because the FBI was enforcing the law. Most /.ers were upset because the FBI went in on a trumped up over-broad warrant and seized an entire data center. If they legitimately need to seize voip servers, that may be acceptable. But it's not okay to take servers of everyone who happened to be unfortunate enough to be leasing servers in the same datacenter.

      There's another angle to this as well. Would the FBI ever seize telco equipment that belonged to an ILEC? No. The FBI and the courts would recognize that telephone is an essential service, and you can't just cut off someone's telephone service because their provider has been naughty. So if that's true for an ILEC, why isn't it true for a voip provider? Telephone delivered via voip is still an essential service. It's the best way to request emergency services (911). So why did the FBI cut off voip service to customers because their provider had been naughty? This is seriously unacceptable behavior.

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    2. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Or until someone has more information than

      there are reports that it's related to video piracy, sparking unconfirmed speculation...

      oh wait, we DO have more info, from CBS news--and its exactly that--

      Court documents show it's all part of an alleged massive fraud scheme against AT&T and Verizon.

      So again, isnt this exactly the sort of thing the FBI is SUPPOSED to be investigating? And if you dont think the "court documents" are a reliable source, then why the hell are people jumping to conclusions based on a report of them? All we know for sure is that the FBI raided a location, they had a warrant, and a news organization saw court documents indicating it was within their authority and rights to do so. Or should i just shut up and let people mindlessly rant about the government for the next hundred or so replies?

      Yes. But Slashdot users have a propensity for Libertarian anarchism.

      Slashdot seems to recently have a propensity for digg-like posting--find an article with an inflamatory article that supports your viewpoint, and jump on the bandwagon with no regard for the reality of the situation.
      Seriously, has reasonable and intelligent discussion really disappeared from slashdot?

    3. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You should really join the real world already. Computer networks have moved beyond the 80s and 90s. When the power cuts out at my office, our generator kicks in and all the VOIP phones and wireless APs stay running by way of POE. Thanks to my docked laptop's battery I could be in the middle of a call remoted into a server somewhere and I wouldn't even notice anything other than the main lighting go out. And we have both a physical internet connection as well as a wireless point-to-point, so if one fails the other doesn't.

      The technology exists to make infrastructure more failure resistant and redundant. People are too lazy and/or afraid of the cost. POE could make networks and VOIP just as independent of the main power grid as POTS is.

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    4. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by perlchild · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the FBI seizes the colo, then it's acting on the warrant and seizing EVIDENCE. If it's seizing equipment belonging to all the clients of a colo, then either the mandate didn't tell it which client had done the crime, so they have to seize them all, get the evidence, and convict the one, maybe apologize to the other, or else they're operating on a theory that they were all conspiring to either commit the crime together, or help hide it.

      I won't say we don't have a bias against the FBI doing anything but arresting "Criminals" with a narrow definition that mostly includes violent offenders. So far I find non-geeks do too. On the other hand, I find seizing a whole colo to be an awful lot of combing the desert(yay space balls reference). It leaves the impression(it can be mistaken) that it's sloppy work. It does a lot of geek-offensive collateral damage. The FBI wouldn't let allegations of frauds against all the companies in a building escape, because they can't be sure each one. The businesses in a colo are all co-tenants, why aren't they treated the same?

      Yes, us geeks have our own biases, one of them is that we believe if law enforcement can't understand something, it can't prosecute it, and needs to go back to school, not prosecuting everyone until it understands. That's our bias, and it's as irrational as everyone else's.

    5. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by twostar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe because VOIP has NEVER BEEN A GOOD 911 OPTION.

      What happens when the power goes out?

      My UPS kicks in supporting the modem, the VOIP router and the phone.

      What happens when the internet goes out?

      I assume you mean when your internet connection goes out. I've got DSL and I've had it go out once in three years and that was during a pretty nasty storm. I'm pretty sure the phone was out also though I had no way of checking. So as long as the phone system works my DSL and VOIP are probably up.

      What happens when...

      The list goes on and on and on and on which is why if you're really concerned about 911 you should have at least one land line phone plugged into an outlet. Why? Because the FBI doesn't need to worry about VOIP service. You should have a 911 phone available.

      Why should I be forced to subsidize an out of date POTS when I don't use it? Maybe we should all be forced to buy and maintain emergency radios so we can call first responders when the phone system goes out.

      If 911 was REALLY a problem then Comcast shouldn't be able to cut anyone's internet access... ever.

      Because the phone company has never disconnected anyone before either.

    6. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by mellon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, plenty of Libertarians are into anarchy. Of course, anarchy can mean a lot of things, from bomb-throwing radicals who just want to destroy the rule of law to people who believe that ultimately what allows societies to work is that most people behave ethically, and that consequently there is no need for some single institution to have a monopoly on the rule of law. A lot of libertarians subscribe to this latter kind of anarchism. I'm sympathetic, personally, but don't think it's practical.

    7. Re:Looking forward to more inflammatory articles by mellon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't buy this argument. The problem here is not that the FBI got involved with a fraud investigation - it makes sense that the FBI would get involved in a fraud investigation where the disputed amount is in the millions of dollars, and the crime was committed across state lines, but would not get involved with a case where the amount of the fraud was small and the fraud was committed within the confines of a single city.

      What is wrong about this case is that the FBI didn't recognize the colo provider as a common carrier and thus did not discriminate between the colo provider's customers. There's nothing wrong with the FBI investigating a crime, but there is something wrong with them doing it incompetently.

  3. errr by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm still not sure the force exerted was necessary. Something else has to be going on here.

    First the Wolverine story from yesterday, now this? I find it hard to believe that this is really over some unpaid bills.

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  4. Still unreasonable seizure - cause irrelevant by Torodung · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Doesn't matter what the motive or rationalization is: Unreasonable seizure by the federal government is forbidden in the Constitution.

    There's no way they needed all this "evidence" for some unpaid bills. Nice story, but I call bullshit.

    God knows what is really going on here, but I hope it eventually sees the light of day. This is reminding me of Waco, with 98% less people being burned alive involved.

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  5. Re:Recession by digitalchinky · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not really, reciprocal arrangements are made by telecommunications companies a thousand times every day, to say that they are complex is perhaps a bit of an understatement. Usually they work out pretty well and everyone is happy, but sometimes someone gets an agenda, or just plain greedy and this is the end result.

  6. In the last story... by sudotron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the speculation was that the FBI raided the data center for IP piracy. Which would, assuming they in fact had a warrant, be within the scope of criminal law, e.g. The Copyright act.

    However, I was under the impression that, in America, it was no violation of the law to owe someone money; at least until that person or corporation showed that money was owed or a contract was breached in a CIVIL suit.

    Or has the Federal Government legislated itself into that area as well?

    IANAL, etc.

  7. still seems fishy by einhverfr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mr Simpson said that he found out that his home was raided as well.

    You don't raid the HOME of the CEO of a company because you think their customers are involved in fraud. That makes less sense than the copyright violation speculation.

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