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ARM — Heretic In the Church of Intel, Moore's Law

ericatcw writes "For 30+ years, the PC industry has been as obsessed with under-the-hood performance: MIPs, MHz, transistors per chip. Blame Moore's Law, which effectively laid down the Gospel of marketing PCs like sports cars. But with mobile PCs and green computing coming to the fore, enter ARM, which is challenging the Gospel according to Moore with chips that are low-powered in both senses of the word. Some of its most popular CPUs have 100,000 transistors, fewer than a 12 MHz Intel 286 CPU from 1982 (download PDF). But they also consume as little as a quarter of a watt, which is why netbook makers are embracing them. It's 'megahertz per milli-watt,' that counts, according to ARM exec Ian Drew, who predicts that 6-10 ARM-based netbooks running Linux and costing just around $200 should arrive this year starting in July."

12 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. Nonsense. by Vectronic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't mean to Dis-ARM, ARM or Armless...

    But it will do exactly the same thing, 0.5 Watts now, 100K transistors now, 300 MHz now... it wont stay that way though, it's just a slimmer base to build upon, like using aluminum instead of steal. People will still keep reaching for the sky, and with a lighter structure, means they can reach even higher, even more MHz, more transistors, etc...

    1. Re:Nonsense. by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not really. ARM has been around for a long time. Its biggest use is in embedded systems- phones, printers, etc. In those markets cost and power usage matter more than performance. They may make a line with more performance eventually, but they make money hands over fist in places where pennies matter (after all, if you sell 1M phones with a processor thats 5cents cheaper, thats 50K more profit). They won't give that up.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:Nonsense. by Vectronic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but even your average phone is more powerful than your average PC was in 1982...

      So "in the meantime" they will somewhat stick with the low+low, what happens when laptops, phones, GPS, etc all become the same device? People are content with the low power they have now, and with stuff like anti-jailbreaking etc, puts a limit on the push for better/faster/stronger because not many see it yet. People thought your body would fall apart at 50mph 100 years ago... "640kb ought to be enough for anybody"...

      PSP (not the most relevant example) might be 300 MHz now, what about PSPII, still 300MHz? Doubtful.

    3. Re:Nonsense. by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PSP is a bad example. The biggest knock on it, and one of the reasons the DS won, was horrible battery life (although the main cuse of that was going with optical media rather than disks. Bad idea.

      Phones might end up going up in power, but you miss the point. If they wanted megahertz, they could get it now. Better processors exist. The manufacurers don't want it- they prefer to save money and make a higher profit. There's billions of devices out there still using 8 bit microcontrollers. They'll never move to higher cpu power because its not needed- its a waste of their money (higher CPU power requires more transistors and thus more die space, for lower yield and higher cost). ARM occupies the niche above that- the devices that need more than the average microcontroller, but nothing as much as an embedded x86 chip. These are billions of devices per year, and they aren't going away. ARM may end up building higher CPU power chips as well, but they won't abandon the existing market.

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      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:Nonsense. by fractoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry to hijack, but your mention of F1 and their stupid technical limitations really hit a nerve. That's my biggest pet hate about F1 - they keep trying to slow the cars down and make them safer by imposing arbitrary limits on various components. What they should do is impose a cost cap on the cars. Do as much research as you want, but the car itself has to be buildable for $100k. The next year, drop that to $80k. Eventually you have a vehicle that is at once the pinnacle of automotive excellence, and available for a decent price from a dealer, and better yet - the technology would be easily adaptable by passenger cars. Antilock brakes, seat belts, traction control, most technology in modern cars was developed for F1. If we could speed up the transition process then that would be the best thing possible for the automotive industry as a whole.

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      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    5. Re:Nonsense. by mdwh2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nonsense. This is like saying a militant atheist is a "Christian", because someone splashed water on their head as a baby, they had christian parents, and were forced to go to "christian" school.

      If we define one's religion not by that person's belief or identity, but by someone else's actions and definitions, then we get into all sorts of nonsensical situations. Consider, if I decide that me shaking your hand whilst I'm dressed up as a pirate makes you a member of the Church of the FSM, and that you're "not really permitted to leave", does that make it true?

      There is no such thing as a muslim child, just as we would not talk about a Marxist or Keynesian child.

      Although I note that whilst usually religious organisations promote these definitions in order to inflate their numbers and force religion onto children, I suspect you're instead taking advantage of anti-Islam viewpoints, in order to make Obama look bad. But I don't really care about the politics here, just your nonsensical non-consensual definition of labelling. Who cares if he is a muslim anyway? Christian or muslim, or Church of Intel, just so long as he keeps his religion out of politics, unlike a certain recent President...

  2. Why is it... by religious+freak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    that some /.ers seem to need to create an enemy of conventional wisdom, even when conventional wisdom is conventional for a reason?

    Yes, efficiency is good. But do you really need to smear the idea of higher processing power at the same time you're pointing out the good in low electricity consumption?

    I mean... really?

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    1. Re:Why is it... by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right. Both approaches have their place. What you're observing is the manifestation of an overriding need to prove one's superior intellect. It's a sign of poor socialization.

      I, for one, welcome multiple approaches to achieving multiple goals.

  3. No laws overrridden by renrutal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFA:

    For 30 years, the PC industry has treated Moore's Law with religious reverence. Its immutable commandment -- thou shalt double the transistors on circuits every 18 months -- created an enviable business model with consumers spurred to buy new, more powerful PCs every few years.

    The actual law is about reduction of cost, not increase of performance. Other formulation says:

    The transistor cost shall halve every 2 years.

    ARM is not breaking any "law".

  4. Horsepower by jeffkjo1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As I read through the article (I know, I've already violated Slashdot's law, but anyway), I couldn't help but go back to this whole idea of 'under-the-hood performance.' Cars built today don't necessarily have to have the 400 cubic inch plants and 500 horsepower that they sometimes had in the 60's. Engines are half that size and half the horsepower, but because they're designed better, it doesn't matter. (Although I'd love a 500 hp engine anyway.)

    As well, continuing the car analog, just because there are still some cars with 500 horsepower engines made today, it doesn't mean everyone needs one. There are plenty of tiny cars doing just fine thankyou
    This article suggests that because we're not using giant oversized processors in our iPods and cellphones, that somehow we've violated Moore's law. All it really means is that putting a Ferrari engine in golfcart is pointless.

  5. monster market by philospher · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the ARM netbooks are going to have a monster market, like eventually over 100 million a year.

    That may sound crazy, but you have to look at the demographics. There are about 6 1/2 billion people in the world. About 1 1/2 billion are in the developed world or the richer parts of the developed world. They all have computers. At the other end are about a billion who are are desperately poor.

    That leaves around 3 billion who are in-between. These are the people who have enough money to buy things like bicycles, motor bikes, televisions, and cell phones. A great many would love to own a computer, and indeed many of them spend a lot of time at cybercafes. But they can't afford the price. And there is another problem, namely that half of these people live in areas with no electricity, and for most of the rest the electric service is very eratic.

    The first generation of netbooks was too expensive for this gigantic potential market, and besides they used too much electricity. But the new ARM netbooks will be enough cheaper for perhaps 500 million more people, and they will use far less electricity, too. Furthermore prices are just going to keep going down. Pixel Qi is planing on designing $75 models in a few years. Every time prices drop another huge group will join the market.

    This all is a huge problem for Microsoft. On the one hand, it would hate to charge the very low license fees it would need to get anywhere in this new market, on the other hand it can hardly afford to ignore it.

  6. Re:They think a bit differently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Netbooks can use much less power than they do today. Real netbooks use solid state storage, which has negligible idle power consumption and very low read power consumption. In the future, RAM may be replaced by one of the contenders for persistent RAM (e.g. MRAM) with zero idle power consumption. Backlit TFT displays will at some point be replaced by E-Paper which only uses power to change the display. At that point, the CPU and the wireless network are about the only consumers of power, so every improvement counts.