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Chimpanzees Exchange Meat For Sex

the_therapist writes "A team from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, studied chimps in the Tai Forest reserve in Ivory Coast and discovered that chimpanzees enter into 'deals' whereby they exchange meat for sex. Among the findings are that 'male chimps that are willing to share the proceeds of their hunting expeditions mate twice as often as their more selfish counterparts.' They also found this to be 'a long-term exchange, so males continue to share their catch with females when they are not fertile, copulating with them when they are.'"

18 of 313 comments (clear)

  1. Same behavior in humans too by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We formulized it and called it marriage though.

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    1. Re:Same behavior in humans too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Except the chimps don't seem to exhibit the signs of buyer's remorse.

    2. Re:Same behavior in humans too by PachmanP · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We formulized it and called it marriage though.

      Nah men formalized it and called it prostitution. Women started thinking about how to get more and put out less and that's how we got marriage.

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    3. Re:Same behavior in humans too by Gorobei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nah men formalized it and called it prostitution. Women started thinking about how to get more and put out less and that's how we got marriage.

      Actually, it was probably the other way around: men formalized marriage in an effort to stop women sleeping around. Stability of the tribe, and all that (alpha males still get to sleep around, beta males get a better chance of their kid actually being theirs, the rest have no illusions.)

      Sometimes I wish I could forget everything I've read on primate and avian mating patterns, it would make my life so much easier.

    4. Re:Same behavior in humans too by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Small tribes and isolation prevented any bad repercussions for free sex.

      In my 50 years of experience there are three types of women
      * Those who hate sex (common and really sad- seems to last decades)
      * Those who are extremely promiscuous (uncommon but more common than you think)
      * Those who enjoy sex and are reasonably or totally monogamous (uncommonly for a decade, rare for a lifetime)

      Based on actual experience, if you are not afraid of loss, the best partner is a couple days a week and then the rest of the time you do guy stuff. A full time wife/girlfriend can be stifling unless you make them your life. I've done it both ways multiple times. I prefer the fwb and free time. Since I have extra meat to share, it works. I've been in three ~decade long relationships and ended up gutted emotionally every time. After I quit that, I was much happier. But I do envy friends who made it work. Having a girlfriend, then wife from 16 to 26 was probably awesome and changed me since I never did the club hunting thing. But it was stupid to marry before I was on good financial footing. And once you marry/get a girlfriend, you can't do what you have to do to get set financially.

      If I was religious, it would have been a lot easier. Religious girls *will* drop you after you and they are in in love-- because a) god comes first and b) "they are going to be in heaven alone for eternity while you are in hell and it makes them sad."

      Worldwide (citation needed but exists), women leave men at a higher rate when the last born child reaches 5 years old. Regardless of culture, religion, or other factors. The theory was that genetically that is when the child can gather it's own food and walk around and there is something genetic about it. And that it is better to have children by multiple mates in order to maximize the odds your genes survive (for both sexes- but they use different strategies to achieve the goal-- I've read up to 10% of children's dna do not match their fathers in many areas, so that's another strategy- happened to at least one friend of mine).

      The only problem is the damn legal system currently punishes men way out of proportion. I've even heard of men required to pay child support for children that were not theirs (they'd paid for a couple years and THEN found out the ex had been lying-- so do a quick paternity test when your wife asks for a divorce and save yourself some grief).

      We all want to love and be loved in return-- and really, almost completely separate from that we want red hot noogie. In fact, the argument over who should take out the garbage gets in the way which is why some of the most incredible sex is with people you only see to get it on with. But (in my experience), you still have to know them well- the anonymous stuff never worked for me. Too cold.

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    5. Re:Same behavior in humans too by YttriumOxide · · Score: 5, Insightful

      and there is really only one reason to take a girl out on a date....

      It's comments like this that lend a strong argument as to why the stereotype of geeks never having girlfriends exists. Sex is great, and I enjoy it immensely, but I'd never consider it the "one reason" to be with a girl. It's great to share your thoughts with someone, have them share theirs with you; someone to laugh with, cry with; someone to look after you when you need it and give you the chance to look after them when they need it. My compatibility with a girl on ALL of these things is what I'm looking for when I go on a date with a girl, not just whether she'll put out at the end of the night.

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    6. Re:Same behavior in humans too by troll8901 · · Score: 5, Funny

      and there is really only one reason to take a girl out on a date....

      To bribe them to set you up with another girl?

    7. Re:Same behavior in humans too by EmotionToilet · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hehehehe...I guess there are many more women lurking around slashdot than we originally thought.

      You mean there are two!?!?

  2. Hmm by EkriirkE · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd rather use MY meat for sex.

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  3. NOT News . . . seen Bonobos by Mr.Ziggy · · Score: 5, Informative

    This behavior has been quite well documented in bonobos, which until recently were considered chimps or dwarf chimps. I'm not sure what makes this article newsworthy, except that we all like to read about meat and sex...

    Try reading a copy of "The Hunting Ape" by Stanford... It's fascinating in covering hunting and culture in apes (including trading food for sex).

    From what I've read, I'd also disagree with the article that meat is so valuable to their diet. They LOVE meat, but other research suggests that the amount of energy expended on hunting compared to what they gain in protein/food is a net negative. Hunting is also high risk and includes getting injured in the process.

  4. I thought sex WAS the exchange of meat... by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...at a high rate of give and take.

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  5. Bonobos by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can believe this is a new discovery for the Common Chimpanzee. But for their close relatives the Bonobos, I saw documentaries decades ago showing not just the long term pair-bonding/mating-behavior related food-giving described in TFA, but outright prostitution. As in a male chimp comes up to a female with a banana in his hand, kinda tugs on her, she reacts neutrally, he hands her the banana and tugs again, they go off and have sex. And lest you hold on to the notion that this was still mating-related behavior, the sex in question was oral.

    Ah, Bonobos. Gotta love those crazy nympho primates. I could be wrong but I think the Common Chimp is closer to us genetically, but I think the Bonobo is closer to us psychologically. I was going to say socially, but I don't know many human societies where genital rubbing is used as a greeting or where orgies break out whenever they acquire food.

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    1. Re:Bonobos by suricatta · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you ever find such a human society, can you let us know? Thanks.

    2. Re:Bonobos by yali · · Score: 5, Interesting

      male chimp comes up to a female with a banana in his hand, kinda tugs on her, she reacts neutrally, he hands her the banana and tugs again, they go off and have sex.

      Part of what's new about this finding is that the chimpanzees are engaging in a long-term exchange, not just an instantaneous trade like in your bonobo example. The male chimp gives the female some meat now, and at some point later in time she mates with him.

      This is interesting because the ability to engage in long-term exchanges requires some pretty sophisticated cognitive machinery that isn't necessary for an instantaneous trade. You have to keep track of who you have active deals with and what the running balance is, and you have to be sensitive to cheaters (and have an effective response, like ostracizing them) lest you get exploited. Evolutionary psychologists think that humans have special cognitive adaptations to help us manage long-term exchanges. This study appears to present evidence of similar abilities in other primates.

  6. Re:Damn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not living in their mom's basement.

  7. Not new by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There was an article some years ago about monkeys (not sure if chimpanzees or not) being trained to use money.

    Researchers taught them that discs of metal could be exchanged for food and such things. They got all sorts of interesting behaviors out of it, including the monkeys attempting to fake the money.

    One uncomfortable discovery was discovering that some of them were actually using that money to pay for sex.

    This seems even better than this one. Food for sex is a straightforward exchange. Tokens that can be used to obtain food for sex is more complicated, and shows a deeper understanding.

    1. Re:Not new by Rabbitbunny · · Score: 5, Informative
  8. Maybe it's not an EXCHANGE by Chienne+Folle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find it interesting that the author of the BBC article is assuming that the male chimps are trading meat for sex. The original article goes on to state that female chimps don't hunt, so they can't obtain meat on their own. When the male chimps donate meat to the female chimps, they don't just get more sex, they also increase the chances that the female chimp will take in enough protein and calories to bear a healthy baby.

    Humans look at the male chimp's giving the female chimp meat as "trading" meat for sex, but there are a lot of other constructions that could be put on that behavior. He could just as easily be trying to assure that his offspring will be healthy. Or trying to assure the health and well-being of a female that he's come to care about.

    The original article says that people had tried to find meat-for-sex exchanges in chimps before and failed, because they didn't give the animals enough credit for long-term planning. They looked to see if Chimp A gave meat to Chimp B, then had sex with her two minutes later, and they didn't find that. The current researchers succeeded because they took a longer-term view and counted meat-giving and sexual activity over time. But it's possible that they're still not giving the animals enough credit -- what if the meat-giving isn't trading meat for sex but is something else entirely?

    Observations of primate behavior will never tell us anything until we learn to just report what we see the animals doing, then think of every plausible reason why they might be doing that, rather than assuming that the animals aren't capable of doing what we do.

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