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Goldman Sachs Tries To Shut Down Dissident Blogger

The Narrative Fallacy sends along a piece from the Telegraph on efforts by Goldman Sachs to silence a blogger who is posting commentary critical of the bank. "Goldman Sachs has instructed Wall Street law firm Chadbourne & Parke to pursue blogger Mike Morgan, warning him in a recent cease-and-desist letter that he may face legal action if he does not close down his website goldmansachs666.com. According to the C&D letter, dated April 8, the bank is rattled because the site 'violates several of Goldman Sachs' intellectual property rights' and also 'implies a relationship' with the bank itself. Morgan claims he has followed all legal requirements to own and operate the website and that the header of the site clearly states that the content has not been approved by the bank. In a post entitled Goldman Sachs vs Mike Morgan, the blogger predicts that the fight will probably end up in court. He went through a similar battle with US home builder Lennar a few years ago after he set up a website to collect information on what he alleged was shoddy workmanship in its homes. 'Since I went through this with Lennar, I've had advice from some of the best intellectual property lawyers, and I know exactly what I can and can't do. We're not going to back down from this.'"

161 comments

  1. Um.... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do companies go to these great lengths to censor these people? Its a lot more effective to let the bloggers blog in relative obscurity then to make a big deal of it and then increase the pagerank of their blog. Pursing these types of cases only leads people to believe you do have something to hide, and that something to hide just got a lot higher up on Google by threatening to sue them....

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people still haven't heard about the Streisand effect.

    2. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      We should try to cover up the existence of the Streisand Effect. Then everyone would know about it.

    3. Re:Um.... by Skapare · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nor have they read this advice.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    4. Re:Um.... by bytethese · · Score: 1

      Which may lead to a Butterfly Effect...

    5. Re:Um.... by Gerzel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because most of the time it isn't more effective to let them blog in obscurity.

      I'd be willing to bet that most people blowing whistles or posting such sites have not crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" and do have some legal leverage that companies can use to shut them down and in many cases wipe them out. Most fold quietly and are never heard from or else are destroyed by legal fees. These bussinesses would not pursue these practices if they were not effective in most cases.

      Sending a scary legal-looking letter especially to a young or low-wage person is more than enough to get them to shut down and shut up what ever they are doing that you don't like. Often you can get the person to sign something to have them give up more rights while they are scared and thus have even more power over them once and if they ever come to their senses.

    6. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      You have obviously not read the description at all.

    7. Re:Um.... by memorycardfull · · Score: 1

      You must cease and desist your discussion of the Streisand Effect immediately.

    8. Re:Um.... by Sentry21 · · Score: 1, Redundant

      The term for this is the Streisand Effect

    9. Re:Um.... by djupedal · · Score: 1

      And here I am thinking it was a virtual shill in the auction audience.

    10. Re:Um.... by Matt+Perry · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why do companies go to these great lengths to censor these people? Its a lot more effective to let the bloggers blog in relative obscurity then to make a big deal of it and then increase the pagerank of their blog.

      Did you mean "then" or "than"? Your post is interpreted differently with either word. You said "then" which makes this read as they left him to blog in obscurity and now they have decided to make a big deal about it which means they are doing the most effective thing, according to you.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    11. Re:Um.... by Shikaku · · Score: 2, Funny

      Then there would be a Streisand Effect on the Streisand Effect's Streisand Effect.

      In Soviet Russia Streisand Effects you!

    12. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fear that you assume that businesses normally have good sense. In fact they frequently have no sense at all and in one case in which I am deeply familiar a business was run by a well dressed and well spoken individual who not only lacked ability and experience but was stark raving nuts. It was entertaining watching what the guy would do next. In one case he was dragged off to jail for punching at cops in the middle of the street because during an emergency they dared route traffic over his parking lot. In another case there was a fancy sink and water cooler unit that needed repair and we had seven different repairmen called to do the job. The owner offended the first six so badly that it took seven just to make a simple repair as all six before him walked off the job.

    13. Re:Um.... by jcr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why do companies go to these great lengths to censor these people?

      Because it used to work. This was before the internet reached most of the people in the country, though.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    14. Re:Um.... by PhreakOfTime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But then again, posting such a poorly thought out Cease and Desist letter might end up in more attention being drawn to such unethical business practices.

      Since you are a betting man, what do you think the odds are that the lawyer who wrote that letter has severely questioned the decision to do so?

    15. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people that do this to other people ought to get mugged in an alley.

    16. Re:Um.... by pcolaman · · Score: 1

      The first rule of Steisand Effect is you don't talk about the Steisand Effect. The second rule of Steisand Effect is...YOU DONT TALK ABOUT THE STREISAND EFFECT!

    17. Re:Um.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then there would be a Streisand Effect on the Streisand Effect.

      Thank you for explaining the joke. Say, aren't you also the guy who explained "ya see, it's because the chicken was over there before, and it didn't want to be there, so it had to cross the road in order to be on the other side. Get it?"

    18. Re:Um.... by Renraku · · Score: 1

      Actually scaring someone into signing a contract that they don't understand invalidates the contract.

      Example: What you're doing is illegal. Sign this paper and we'll go away. Ha! Now if you keep doing it we'll sue you since you signed a contract saying that you wouldn't do that!

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    19. Re:Um.... by SlashWombat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Talking about banks having sense? Where have you people been for the last year? (Hint ... Global economic crisis, Junk Bonds, Corporate Greed)

    20. Re:Um.... by freedom_india · · Score: 1

      scaring someone into signing a contract that they don't understand invalidates the contract.

      Tell that to the thousands of single moms and students who "settled" with RIAA.

      --
      "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
    21. Re:Um.... by mattrumpus · · Score: 1

      Then there would be a Streisand Effect on the Streisand Effect.

      Thank you for explaining the joke. Say, aren't you also the guy who explained "ya see, it's because the chicken was over there before, and it didn't want to be there, so it had to cross the road in order to be on the other side. Get it?"

      Yeah, but that's not really explaining the joke though....

      --
      Who's with me?! I SAID... WHO'S WITH ME!!??
    22. Re:Um.... by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe because they have something to hide.

    23. Re:Um.... by Golddess · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gerzel's point was that, most of the time, $BIG_CORP trying to shutdown $LITTLE_BLOG does not end up like TFA. Now, I don't know if that is true or not, but Mr Morgan fighting back against Mr Sachs does not automatically invalidate what Gerzel said.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    24. Re:Um.... by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      Yeah but try being the one who is scared proving that you were scared into signing it. Often the threat is the cost of hiring a legal defence. In order to prove that you were coerced and scared into signing a contract you have to hire the same or greater legal defence and come back to the same real reason you were threatened in the first place.

    25. Re:Um.... by hajus · · Score: 1

      There's a Godel joke in there, somewhere.

    26. Re:Um.... by Gerzel · · Score: 1

      The lawyer is likely working 9 to 5 with little or no personal liability in his job other than accountability for an arbitrary measure for his job performance(such as sending and filing said C&D letters). So I don't think the lawyer writing/sending them out thinks much at all about it.

  2. striesand effect by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    when will lawyer types understand the world is more complex than litigation. even if sachs win this it's too late, they've given him all the credibility he needs just by reacting to it.

    if they just ignored it and called it blatantly untrue, he'd slip off the radar never to been seen again. the other side to this is that there are lots of guys like this blogger who take up causes like this just to try get their 15 minutes. this guy strikes me as one of this self rightgeous types.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:striesand effect by oldhack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "when will lawyer types understand the world is more complex than litigation."

      I'm sure lawyers understand that better than most.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    2. Re:striesand effect by fightinfilipino · · Score: 5, Informative

      it's not often the lawyers' choice. Goldman Sachs consults Chadbourne & Parke on the best courses of action. if the law firm is doing its job correctly, they will give Goldman Sachs a number of different options they could take. but ultimately, it's up to Goldman Sachs as the client to choose what path to take. in short, the lawyer types DO understand that there's more than just litigation, but clients may not necessarily know, or even want, those other options.

    3. Re:striesand effect by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      call me jaded, don't i don't see lawyers not advising legal action. that's simply not what we see happening in the courts these days.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    4. Re:striesand effect by Saysys · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It does not matter if it is right or wrong to the lawyers.

      What matters is how much they can convince GS to pay them for the privilege of making GoldmanSachs look bad.

    5. Re:striesand effect by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      I had an injury on city property.

      A good lawyer and a friend advised me that unless the city is at extreme fault (ie: negligent or like) that is was near worthless to pursue a case. I could simply say that they weren't negligent, so I took his advice.

      --
    6. Re:striesand effect by jcr · · Score: 1

      when will lawyer types understand the world is more complex than litigation.

      Lawyers bill by the hour. Win or lose, it's worth it for the lawyer to pursue it.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:striesand effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Of course you don't see the lawyers advising against legal action in courts.

      They are against going to court in the first place!

    8. Re:striesand effect by pod · · Score: 1

      Oh I don't know, I think it works just fine.

      If they do battle and win, the guys life is basically ruined and bankrupt. If he throws in the towel early, they win too. If they lose, it's just status quo.

      Everyone knows how expensive a legal defense can be, and how expensive a settlement can be when punitive damages are considered. By keeping these cases public and visible, it acts as a deterrent. Many people, when faced with a legal challenge and potential costs will just shut up and move on with their life.

      --
      "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
    9. Re:striesand effect by qbzzt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Goldman Sachs probably has a PR department. It's the job of the PR department to weigh in and say this is not worth doing.

      Lawyers are experts on how things would appear to a judge and a jury - not how the rest of the world would perceive them. Often the best legal course is a really bad PR course.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    10. Re:striesand effect by qbzzt · · Score: 1

      call me jaded, don't i don't see lawyers not advising legal action.

      I call you jaded. Goldman Sachs is probably a long term customer of Chadbourne & Parke. It is in the law office's best interest to give good advice to such a client - even if it means forgoing the fees from one specific case.

      --
      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    11. Re:striesand effect by ElectricRook · · Score: 1

      You're missing the important perspective where this is a win-win.

      The Law-Firm made money, the Lawyer made money, and Goldman-Sachs... Well - two-outta-three ain't bad.

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
    12. Re:striesand effect by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't be ignoring it if they made a statement about it at all. Calling it blatantly untrue would be that statement.

      There is also terms like trademark in which you have to protect it else it becomes extremely difficult to protect in the future. They may not really have a choice in matters like that. We also got to see the website quite nicely after the disclaimers came up. I'm suspecting that this slashvertisment was designed to create the impression that the C&D letter was unfounded in the first place. I somehow doubt that was originally true. He even mentions in one entry where he has had experience with this before.

      I'm not really going to bother with reading the entire site to see if there is anything worth of value on it. From what I can tell, it's a couple of biased and misinformed letters to congress critters and a few opinions that border libel. I would be asking why this even made the front page of slashdot until I remembered the been through this before skit. I'm willing to be the guy has a small cult following that promoted it to the top of the stack.

    13. Re:striesand effect by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      when will lawyer types understand the world is more complex than litigation. *snip*

      Really, its not, once you include the money factor.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    14. Re:striesand effect by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      A good lawyer and a friend advised me that unless the city is at extreme fault (ie: negligent or like) that is was near worthless to pursue a case. I could simply say that they weren't negligent, so I took his advice.

      Which is exactly how it *should* be.

    15. Re:striesand effect by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Often the best legal course is a really bad PR course.

      That is true, but unless the bad PR reaches a mighty crescendo of public outrage, as the AIG bonus scandals did, then a bank holding company, like Goldman, is unlikely to change its ways. Goldman is not a consumer products or entertainment company and so is more insulated from, although not impervious to, the direct actions and opinions of the public.

    16. Re:striesand effect by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Even if the city really was negligent?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:striesand effect by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      I know it's a few days after the fact, but the lawyer explained what it meant to have a city be negligent. It was then my decision to determine if the city was at fault, considering my injury (bicycle riding).

      The perceived negligence is that a bicycle/walking trail abruptly ends at a very nasty intersection. If you care to see, it's Columbus, IN at the intersection of 2'nd, 3'rd, and State St. at the intersection of the river. I ended up following bicycle rules going down 3rd st, but decided to take it to the sidewalk quickly due to all 3 lanes of traffic. From then, I took what looked like a safe way to the sidewalk but was thrown from the bicycle. I landed on my shoulder, receiving a posterior dislocation, tear of the superspinatus (sp), and a break below the ball of my shoulder.

      After careful consideration, I had to come to a conclusion that even though the city did fail to properly have a safe bicycle trail, I also was partially responsible for operation of my vehicle (and stupidity).

      So, I sucked it up and am paying on medical bills.

      --
  3. Streisand Effect for Goldman Sachs by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This will cause a major Streisand Effect for Goldman Sachs. Now everyone will know what they want hidden.

    It seems to me the banks are largely in control of the country, not the government or the people.

    We need to transfer money to and from Europe and Brazil. We discovered that the banks: 1) Determine the exchange rate themselves; some banks won't even tell you their exchange rate in advance. 2) Charge a large fixed fee. 3) Charge a percentage of the money transferred.

    1. Re:Streisand Effect for Goldman Sachs by ip_fired · · Score: 1

      If you're going to be transferring large amounts of money, sign up for a site like FXAll.com where banks will compete with each other and you can pick the best exchange rate for you. It's a market, no one institution is setting the rate. But the bank that you do the trade with will add a spread on the rate that they give you to cover the cost of doing the trade with you.

      --
      Don't count your messages before they ACK.
    2. Re:Streisand Effect for Goldman Sachs by cusco · · Score: 1

      If it's not a large amount of money you're better off just sending someone in Brazil a debit card and telling them how much to take out of your account there. We used to send money to Peru, $30-40 to send, $10 to receive there, and the bank at that end took one percent more. It could take anywhere from four days to four months, and twice they sent the money to the wrong frelling COUNTRY. Now we just have a brother-in-law take out the money with our debit card there and wire it within the country. Costs $3 per $300 transaction and is instantaneous.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  4. Babs' Law in Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idiots.
    I just bookmarked it and now will visit it daily.
    [sarcasm]Death to the "internationalist Zionist conspiracy".[/sarcasm]

  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. It would be more interesting if ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

    ... these bloggers would just not use the name of the company in their domain name. Instead, choose a name that is descriptive of the evil actions. Then merely identify what company is being referred to. And that opens up the ability to reference more than one company, too.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  7. bad law by belmolis · · Score: 3, Informative

    The C and D letter itself undermines its argument. It notes that Goldmann Sachs owns the trademark "in the financial services market". Trademarks are restricted to particular market segments. The fact that Goldmann Sachs owns that trademark in the financial services market does not prevent others from using the same trademark in other market segments. If you want to start a chain of "Goldmann Sachs Cheeseburgers", you are free to do so. So, not only is GoldmannSachs666 clearly distinct from GoldmannSachs, but since it isn't in the financial services market, it wouldn't infringe even if it weren't distinct.

    1. Re:bad law by Skapare · · Score: 1

      That is most certainly a valid defense. But defenses cost money and the big evil corporations know this. It would be better for these gripe bloggers to use a name that gives the evil corporation no opportunity in this regard. Just use a domain name that describes the bad actions and identify the bad actors in the content. Then the first C & D has to be something like "stop saying that" or whatever.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:bad law by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      The C and D letter itself undermines its argument. It notes that Goldmann Sachs owns the trademark "in the financial services market". Trademarks are restricted to particular market segments.

      So what market segment is the blogger in? By criticising a company in the financial services segment don't they operate in the same segment?

    3. Re:bad law by belmolis · · Score: 1

      He isn't in the financial services market if he isn't offering financial services. Since he isn't selling anything, he isn't really in any market, but if you have to specify one, it is presumably journalism.

    4. Re:bad law by Gorobei · · Score: 1

      Given Goldman owns a big chunk of Burger King, it may not even be that valid a defense.

    5. Re:bad law by Quothz · · Score: 1

      Trademarks are restricted to particular market segments.

      In the US, at least, you are mistaken. I'm not a lawyer, but the Trademark Dilution Revision Act of 2006 makes it pretty clear that injunctive relief (as opposed to damages) does not rely upon competition within a market if the trademark has achieved certain requirements for fame:

      Subject to the principles of equity, the owner of a famous mark that is distinctive, inherently or through acquired distinctiveness, shall be entitled to an injunction against another person who, at any time after the owner's mark has become famous, commences use of a mark or trade name in commerce that is likely to cause dilution by blurring or dilution by tarnishment of the famous mark, regardless of the presence or absence of actual or likely confusion, of competition, or of actual economic injury.

      However, TDRA has a specific exclusion for criticism:

      The following shall not be actionable as dilution by blurring or dilution by tarnishment under this subsection:

      ...(ii) identifying and parodying, criticizing, or commenting upon the famous mark owner or the goods or services of the famous mark owner

    6. Re:bad law by belmolis · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not mistaken. Trademarks are registered for specific market segments. The "famous mark" provision that you cite allows holders of some marks to claim the mark outside the registered segment(s), but most marks don't fall into this category. It is intended for marks that are not only well known but associated with diverse market segments, e.g. "Sears". Even if Goldman Sachs is very well known in the financial services area, the fact that it is restricted to this one market segment and, for that matter, is unknown to people who know nothing about financial services, militate rather strongly against "famous mark" status.

    7. Re:bad law by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      So if I took out the domain Belmolis22.whatever and criticized your slashdot posts, I would be in a different market?

      Well, lets put it another way. Lets say I created a magazing called "Goldmann Sachs blurbs" and ran stories about Goldmann Sachs' business, their actions, and how the government is favoring them. Would I be in the same market or not? Could you see where if I wrote false or misleading information in the Onion style of news would weaken their trademark just a little? I would hope so because that's essentially what this guy did. By the nature of what he is writing about- focusing on Goldmann Sachs- he has entered the market enough to make an impact on their name, journalism or not.

      This is probably going to be one of those cases that goes to court and a judge will rule that the blogger isn't the press and people will take it out of context. About the only think that puts him that far would be the domain I would think though. If he didn't use the name in the domain- his case would be a lot more to his favor.

    8. Re:bad law by Quothz · · Score: 1

      Trademarks are registered for specific market segments.

      Trademarks are registered for one or more classes of goods or services, not market segments, which are something else entirely. These classes are codified by the USPTO rules. However, the famous trademark provision shows that trademarks are not restricted to the class(es) under which they're registered, as you claimed.

      It is intended for marks that are not only well known but associated with diverse market segments

      That is absolutely not one of the criteria used when determining whether a trademark is famous:

      (i) The duration, extent, and geographic reach of advertising and publicity of the mark, whether advertised or publicized by the owner or third parties.

      (ii) The amount, volume, and geographic extent of sales of goods or services offered under the mark.

      (iii) The extent of actual recognition of the mark.

      (iv) Whether the mark was registered under the Act of March 3, 1881, or the Act of February 20, 1905, or on the principal register.

      Even if Goldman Sachs is very well known in the financial services area, the fact that it is restricted to this one market segment and, for that matter, is unknown to people who know nothing about financial services, militate rather strongly against "famous mark" status.

      That's an interesting theory. As a counterpoint, I'll note that Goldman Sachs' trademark was (one of?) the first to be explicitly found famous under the new law (Goldman, Sachs & Co. v. Lis Wevers c/o Goldman Advertising Services BV) and was used as an example of a famous trademark during EU hearings prior to trademark legislation. It's moot, of course, since using their trademark for criticism is protected.

    9. Re:bad law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not anymore. It used to be that way, but for years now there is no more limitation on the market. If nobody remembers the name of the act that changed this situation, I may do a search and provide it. It created additional problems for sites like nissan.com, which was in clear before and got attacked again after that bill became a law.

  8. Re:bad law, not Kosher by davebarnes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Goldman Sachs Cheeseburgers.
    Too funny.
    Especially near Passover.

    --
    Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
  9. Right as Rain by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But you know, even if you are right, being an asshole still shines through. You always have to consider the messenger.

    --
    Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    1. Re:Right as Rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe Goldman Sachs themselves created this website and are suing it to draw attention to it. It's reverse psychology nested in reverse psychology.

  10. Sale on Intellectual Property by steelbr2 · · Score: 1

    Goldman Sachs domains for sale buy your goldmansachs###.com domain today!!
    Buy now, cash in on their IP.

  11. Blah-sucks.com by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2, Informative

    Haven't there already been Blah-sucks.com cases that have been decided in favor of free speech?

    1. Re:Blah-sucks.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "To prove that a party committed trademark infringement or cybersquatting, or subjected the adverse party to unfair competition or deceptive trade practices, the adverse party must show that party's use of its trademarks is likely to cause an appreciable number of potential buyers to be confused about the source, affiliation, or sponsorship of the party's products. 15 U.S.C.S. Â 1125(d)(1)(A). In making this inquiry, courts consider a variety of factors, including the strength of the allegedly infringed mark, whether the designs that incorporate the registered mark are similar, whether the products sold by the parties are similar, whether the retail outlets and purchasers are similar, whether the parties use the same advertising media, whether the defendant intended to usurp the registered trademark, and whether any consumers were actually confused. The court must balance the factors according to its own judgment based. on the facts in the case before it." Smith v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., 537 F. Supp. 2d 1302

  12. More of the many abuses by banks: by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here are just a few more of the many abuses by banks:

    The Federal Reserve Bank is not federal. There is nothing in reserve. It is not a bank. Three lies in the title! "The Fed" is controlled by the big banks.

    Someone associated with the big banks, acting for "The Fed", determines the interest rate that will be paid on savings. There are often news stories saying how brilliant he is for lowering the interest rate, which allows the banks higher income, and means that those who save money get less interest.

    Retirement savings accounts (IRAs): 1) IRAs are given a lower interest rate. 2) When IRA CDs are renewed automatically, it is always at a lower interest rate, taking advantage of people who are extremely busy before the renewal date, and don't have time to research a better rate at a different bank.

    Credit Cards: 1) Credit card rules are changed any time the bank wants, with little prior notice. 2) Changes in the rules are hidden in complicated language.

    Savings accounts: 1) Banks advertise a high rate, then lower the rate later, with very little or no notice. 2) Accounts don't show the interest rate. 3) Banks advertise phrases like "Great Rate" and then give an especially poor rate, depending on the lack of ability of most people to do research.

    Bank Representatives: 1) Banks hire support people who have no power other than to waste time. 2) Online email support people press a button and give pre-recorded answers that have no relevance to the issue raised.

    1. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by ip_fired · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someone associated with the big banks, acting for "The Fed", determines the interest rate that will be paid on savings. There are often news stories saying how brilliant he is for lowering the interest rate, which allows the banks higher income, and means that those who save money get less interest.

      Huh? Banks determine the interest rate that they will pay you. It's on your monthly statement. If banks need more money, they'll offer a higher interest rate to entice people to transfer more money over to them. If you want a fixed rate, you need to get a CD, which will lock you into a rate. By using a savings account which you can withdraw from, you get less. Less risk (because your cash is liquid), less reward.

      The interest rate you are talking about is the inter-bank lending rate, where banks will make very short term loans to each other (overnight, or a few days) so that they have the requisite amount of cash to meet the needs of their depositors. It doesn't always effect the rates at which you can lend at.

      In response to your other gripes:
      IRAs) Don't invest in CDs. Put your money in managed funds that will get you better returns without you having to do all of the research.
      Credit Cards) Don't buy what you can't afford. It doesn't matter what interest rate you have on the card if you pay it off in full each month.
      Savings Accounts) Move your money out when the bank lowers the rate. Move it into something with a higher return if you can afford to have it be locked up for a while.
      Bank Representatives) Not sure what bank you're with that causes you think this, but it isn't true of all banks. Start shopping around a bit more.

      --
      Don't count your messages before they ACK.
    2. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      "The Fed" is owned (ed. note: no, I mean owned, not pwned, but pwned seems to apply too) by the big banks.

      There fixed it for you.

    3. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by myspace-cn · · Score: 1

      And TAXPAYERS should surround Washington DC and Wall Street, disrupt traffic and run these motherfuckers out of town on a rail. Pitch Forks and Torches.

      Haven't you fucking had enough of this shit?!

    4. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by pod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That was at best an extremely poor choice of words on the parent's part.

      The FED rate is the rate the FED will lend to large banks at. The parent IS correct in that, effectively, the FED has nothing in reserve, and any money it lends is basically created out of thin air. The way it influences (and benefits) these banks is that the lower the rate, the more will be lent and borrowed, and anything they get from the FED they will multiply 10x through the magic of fractional reserve banking.

      This is bad because it distorts the economy. By artificially lowering rates and encouraging capital borrowing, businesses misallocate their assets and efforts, anticipating economic conditions that are ultimately fake (because real capital is only created through savings, not the printing press), and that will lead to losses when the real condition is revealed (the classic boom/bust cycle).

      --
      "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
    5. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's sort of true and not at the same time.

      The fed actually holds a percentage of the money other banks own from deposits. Your local bank (or national/international conglomerate acting as a local bank) is required to keep so much of their deposits in reserve to account for normal withdraws and banking needs. The ratio usually is different for times deposits like a CD but for normal account deposits it's around 10% (last time I checked).

      Now, here is where the fed comes in to play. The local banks don't really have the facilities or security to hold the entire amount of reserves. If a bank has 10 billion deposited (on paper), it needs to keep 1 billion in reserve. Most banks can don't have the capacity to keep more then a couple million on hand so the rest gets stored at the reserve. They transfer a portion of this (what they are capable of securing on site subtracted from the CRR applicable to the banks specifics) to one of the twelve district reserve banks. They do this for a small fee which is generally charged as the FDIC insurance. When the reserve lends money, they lend this money as their own and collect the interest on it.

      They can do this essentially because 15 banks may have more then enough money deposited to cover the normal needs of all the banks in their district plus interbank lending. They aren't creating it our of thin air, they are using other people's money as their own for the purpose of stabilizing the monetary flow.

      This can go awry and cause some disasters like when banks state trading loans and counting them as asset packages for the purpose of their reserve ratios (part of what got us into trouble recently). However, the system itself isn't inherently flawed or bad as you suggest. What this does is allow wealth and value to be created without the constant need to monitor the health of the economy. It doesn't really distort it as much as it keeps it stable. And best of all, it allows wealth to be created without causing inflation.

      Now what I mean by wealth to be created without causing inflation is best explained in a short story/example. In a fixed system, there is a static amount of currency. When someone holds 90 percent of that currency, there is only 10 percent of it left for the community. The result is that people get paid less for their work and have to pay more for their goods and services they purchase. But with this reserve system and the ability to use other people's money, then you or I could do something of value and create wealth without lowing the amount of money in circulation or causing inflation. What happens is that if there was $100 in the entire country and $60 was in the hands or bank accounts of 2 of the 10 people living there, then when you convert your time and labor into value by going into the woods, cutting down a tree, cutting planks from that tree and manufacture rocking chairs or furniture or whatever, your not limited to selling them for the excess of the $5 the remaining 8 people control. Instead, they can temporarily use $2 each from the 2 with all the money and now you have your $5 plus $16 from the other 7 people with $5 and one of the 2 with $30 each. The effect is that the economy now has roughly $114-$116 and you purchase more stuff to better your life. This pays someone else more, allows them to do something to create wealth, purchase more, and the process repeats. At some point in time, they print more money to represent the actual value or wealth in the economy and you never knew it was short or in excess for that brief period of time.

      This is a necessity with a fiat currency. It can be abused though. But that is actually rare. It is a little more complicated then I just attempted to explain but most people who attempt to understand it don't ever look at the good side of it and assume the bad because they can't see the benefits. I would say that this is because most people borrow to purchase things they can't afford that will eventually decrease in value (car, boats, big screen TVs, so on) instead of borrow to mak

    6. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Fed absolutely lowers rates in order to discourage saving and make borrowing money cheaper. Banks barely need depositors at all now, since all of their "profit" is being generated by the government. When inflation finally becomes apparent these banks are going to find that all of their mortgages are "non-performing". The current bank executives and politicians think that they will have moved on by then, but this time there will be nowhere to hide.

    7. Re:More of the many abuses by banks: by Nevyn · · Score: 1

      Retirement savings accounts (IRAs): 1) IRAs are given a lower interest rate. 2) When IRA CDs are renewed automatically, it is always at a lower interest rate, taking advantage of people who are extremely busy before the renewal date, and don't have time to research a better rate at a different bank.

      An IRA is a type of account, mainly used for retirment savings due to how tax is done on it, you can have basically anything in it. A CD is a loan to a bank, much like a savings account but with a higher rate of interest due to limits on how you can move the money about.

      You are either intentionally lying, or more likely are just repeating words you do not understand.

      Savings accounts: 1) Banks advertise a high rate, then lower the rate later, with very little or no notice. 2) Accounts don't show the interest rate. 3) Banks advertise phrases like "Great Rate" and then give an especially poor rate

      All normal savings accounts I've seen have a fixed rate, in the 0-1% range for "low" deposit amounts (this is not good for a long term investment). But you can also withdraw money from an ATM directly from the "savings" account (this is not possible with any long term. investment I know of).

      I've never seen a bank that didn't show the interest rate prominently. The rate is often "great" when compared to logically similar offers. If I can buy a brand new Nissan for $1,000 or a Ferrari for $10,000, the later might be a much better deal ... but that doesn't help if I only have $5,000.

      --
      ustr: Managed string API with ave. 44% overhead over strdup(), for 0-20B
  13. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Zerth · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Either that, or they've figured that the old adage "No press is bad press" might be true and that this is a hell of lot cheaper than a real advertising campaign.

    Gets the name out in the mainstream media.

  14. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since it is hosted with Google, I wonder if *they* will fold under threats from G.S.?

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  15. Goldman is going to lose by basementman · · Score: 1

    They are going to lose just like paypal did to paypalsucks.com

    Oh yeah, and paypal really grinds my gears.

    1. Re:Goldman is going to lose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Paypal's operation so shady, you expect them to be running numbers games, call girls, and speakeasys.

      Actually, I take that back. It was kind of insulting to proprietors of illegal gambling houses, brothels, and underground bars.

  16. Re:bad law, not Kosher by bytethese · · Score: 1

    Mmm, Goldman Sachs Bacon Cheeseburgers!

  17. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by shadowofwind · · Score: 1

    Whatever Goldman Sachs is doing, it's going to get buried in a pile of stuff they aren't doing.

    This is the same as Alien conspiracies in the 90's - So much bullshit and misinformation, interest eventually peaked, and then most people got bored and forgot about it.

    OK, I'll bite....what was real about aliens in the 90's that was buried beneath all the bullshit?

  18. Just wait until he gets the C&D from Satan by davidwr · · Score: 1

    We all know who has the better lawyers.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  19. Re:Streisand Effect for Goldman Sachs (No Issue) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I don't think the fact that there is a Streisand Effect matters here. That is slashdot trying to rationalize a decision made by lawyers for a large corporation. The guy is free to set up another site and post stuff that does not constitute infringement.

    It doesn't matter what the blogger says here, that is not the main point of this C & D action. No tinfoil hat needed for this one- just a company protecting its copyright.

    Look at it from Goldman's point of view: if they don't protect their trademarks they can easily lose them, which means they lose a lot of money. This is standard business protocol, nothing about this action screams "we're going to censor him at any cost."

  20. Re:bad law, not Kosher by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wouldn't want either Goldman or Sachs on my cheeseburger. The bacon is okay. :P

  21. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I only skimmed the first couple entries, but it's a fact that:
    1. Henry Paulson, former treasury secretary and key architect of the bailout plan, is a former CEO of Goldman Sachs.
    2. Goldman Sachs has receieved 10 billion in TARP money.
    3. Goldman Sachs has received 12-20 billion in additional monies via the AIG bailout.

    The more people who know that the better.

  22. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "real" part is the tax money that was used, also the least important topic in retrospect.

  23. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by unlametheweak · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is the same as Alien conspiracies in the 90's - So much bullshit and misinformation, interest eventually peaked, and then most people got bored and forgot about it.

    So you're one of those alien conspiracy deniers. It's people like you who make all the evidence look bogus. Nice try. Why don't you admit that you are in cahoots with the aliens?

  24. Why do they try to stop him? by surfingmarmot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    People try to make sense of GS catapulting this guy to fame to their detriment when they should properly just keep him in the shadows. Isn't it obvious why? One small Word, one big object: EGO The people who run Goldman-Sachs are used to running everything--including the Fed, Congress, and the Presidency. They have saddled everyone of us with a debt of $165,000 for the bail out (so far) and most of that money goes into their pockets in bonuses, guarantees for their failed investments, and other devious ways they bilk people for cash. It sticks in their craw that some little nobody on the net can flip them the bird and blow raspberries at them and be untouchable. And they just cannot accept that. Their egos cannot stand it.

    1. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Informative

      They have saddled everyone of us with a debt of $165,000 for the bail out (so far) and most of that money goes into their pockets in bonuses, guarantees for their failed investments, and other devious ways they bilk people for cash.

      You're way off in your figures. As you can see from this nifty little chart, the entire Federal Reserve balance sheet is only about $2 trillion. Include $700 billion for TARP and $787 billion for the stimulus, and it adds up to $3.487 trillion. Divide that by 250 million people in the United States, and you get $13,948 per person. And Goldman Sachs was only a small portion of that.

      Personally I think we should have let them fail. When politicians say, "You must do X or the economy will collapse!" it sounds too much like "you must do X or the terrorists will win!"

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Total bailout exceeds 4 TRILLION dollars.

    3. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The number that's more than three times as large that gets cited is the maximum commitment on the allocated programs. See here for the breakdown between maximum and allotted:
      http://www.didthebailoutwork.com/
      That site is a little out of date... the numbers are much higher now.

      People don't understand that the bulk of the securities being purchased are tranched securities, so they may well be valueless even if they're nominally "mortgage" securities. Land does not go to zero, but tranched securities do... that's the whole idea behind the concept. So it's probably fair to put the total losses to the taxpayer at somewhere between halfway between the current commitment and the maximum commitment. Around $6 trillion or so (the exact number frankly doesn't matter, and it will grow).

      There are only 154.5 million potential earners in the United States, including those currently unemployed. This places the commitment per earner (these are the only people who can bear the burden of paying off the debt, for the most part) at just under $40,000. That is the current value of the incurred debt. What most of the sites that tout higher numbers do is estimate how much it will ultimately cost to service the incurred debt. At 5% interest per annum, paid over 30 years, the total cost of the bailout per worker is roughly $77,000.

      If you make less charitable assumptions, you can easily see where people get numbers over $100,000 per person for the bailout.

    4. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The number that's more than three times as large that gets cited is the maximum commitment on the allocated programs.

      Yes, but that's not fair. I haven't come close to maxing out my credit cards yet, so I shouldn't be blamed for having a high credit limit. Likewise the government shouldn't be blamed for money it hasn't spent yet. They've done enough that can be legitimately criticized, no need to use hyperbole.

      If you are going to look into the future, you need to also consider money that's going to get paid back. Not all of that money is in mortgage backed securities. The money in the commercial paper program is almost guaranteed to get paid back. Also banks like Goldman Sachs are trying to pay back the TARP funds as soon as possible.

      In addition, the Federal Reserve doesn't need to pay interest. They make up money out of thin air.

      --
      Qxe4
    5. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I think your on the spot but miss with the intent. It isn't ego but "slight of hand". Look here, while something else is happening over there.

      The distraction has already got us people in charge of the US treasury and IRS who couldn't even properly file their own tax returns with the help of computer software (and yes, I'm giving him the benfit of doubt in that statement). It's got us a bail out bill that "doesn't have to be perfect" but allows for the bitching about bonuses paid with tarp money when the law specifically allowed it. Slight of hand has got us the backing of Bush's wiretapping policy that supporters say they still hate but Obama somehow does it more competently. Slight of hand got us a troop withdraw from Iraq that is little more then the SOFA agreement Bush set up and a change in the names of the troops. Instead of soldiers, they are peace keepers and trainers and advisers. But hey, He's getting the troops out isn't he?

      I think most of what I can see on that site is little more then the have not(s) griping. That doesn't bother the people Goldmann Sachs will be/are doing business with. But, if you are looking there, what are you going to miss elsewhere. And I say this not as some super informed person, but as the mass population in general. We got a story about the wire tapping support here on slashdot, but where in the mass media? The troops, I happened to catch a John Stewart program a few weeks back, little in the mass media.

      And I don't mean to pick on Obama. It's just that it's happening with him on watch and Goldmann Sachs may be the one wanting the distraction not the government. I just think that the end result is a needed distraction from something else. I think they are perfectly fine with people ignoring it all and claiming ego too.

    6. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by twiddlingbits · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the CDO's and other instruments written on the now worthless mortgages. If you do ALL the math, including what the CDO's are, what they are insured at, the other investors who have NOT yet surfaced asking for bailouts (Life Insurance, Property Insurance, etc.) for recovering their losses in the CDOs and other housing market investments. AIG is just the tip of the iceberg. If you add in the fact that some of these mortgage debts have been resold in packages that would have face values of 5-10X the underlying mortgages the dollars mushroom quickly. I have seen estimates of the worldwide impact at about a QUADRILLION (aka 1,000 trillion) dollars which is about 167K for every person on the planet. I think that estimate is high but not out of the range of consideration. This makes the South Seas Bubble which damn near busted the worlds richest nation (England) and brought about things like the French Revolution a mere blip on the charts.

    7. Re:Why do they try to stop him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't let quantification get in the way of your reasoning. The amounts are not crystal-clear anyway, as others have pointed out. But regardless of the amount, what matters is that this should never have happened.

      However, it's not the people who make the laws in this country, it's big business. Until the people wake up, smell the coffee, and understand that no matter who they vote for they'll keep getting the shaft, things will continue down this path.

      The only way to stop this process is to take the power away from big business, in a peaceful manner, by not rewarding their actions, by being informed, vocal, consuming less, and spending/investing your money with smaller companies, mom & pop shops, etc.

      It's just like the big media companies... they are only relevant because people watch/listen/read the lies and propaganda they produce. If most people stopped doing that, they would lose all their power.

  25. Um... what? by StreetStealth · · Score: 1

    I don't want to troll here, but I ask quite honestly, do you even know what Goldman Sachs is?

    They are a vast and influential investment bank with a worldwide presence. They were one of the top few campaign contributors to both Obama and McCain, and their former execs occupy high positions in the US Treasury department.

    They have considerably less need to "get their name out in the mainstream media" than those scrappy little startups called McDonalds and Coca-Cola.

    --
    Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
    1. Re:Um... what? by Zerth · · Score: 1

      They have considerably less need to "get their name out in the mainstream media" than those scrappy little startups called McDonalds and Coca-Cola.

      .

      And yet they advertise, despite being one of the world's highest firms and consistantly outgrowing its competitors. True, it has never really used TV advertisments, but I still get print pieces and see newspaper ads for GS about new products(20+% of their revenue is from products that didn't exists last decade). Hell, they've been doing ads in COLOR for almost 10 years now:)

      But GS recently posted losses for the first time ever. If they want to get back to profitability and avoid getting mired in this economy, they'll go looking for the next "20% of revenue" and they might need to go slumming in "the public" to do it.

    2. Re:Um... what? by cusco · · Score: 1

      They advertise for the same reason that The Plastics Council or ADM advertise - it's essentially a legal bribe to media outlets to go easy on reporting them. Back when ADM got caught fixing the international price of lysine NPR did a big story on it, promising to follow up in the future. ADM's PR flacks called the NPR administration to say they were withdrawing their financial pledges for the upcoming year, and the 'follow up' stories magically vanished. Much the same with the Ford and Carnegie Foundations, known conduits for right-wing monies which never seem to get tarnished when the groups they fund get caught suborning governors in Venezuela or overthrowing the freely elected president of Haiti.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  26. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

    I'm sure there are plenty of top-secret spy plane sightings and god knows what else buried in the mounds of UFO bullshit.

    Good look separating the worthwhile from the shit though.

  27. Yep. Mod up. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This will inevitably lead to the Streisand Effect. Goldman Sachs just f*ed up bigtime.

    Support Mike and his website.

  28. Wow, did anyone RTFB? by pongo000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Disclosure: Yes, I am short Goldman Sachs stock. I believe this company is evil and should not exist. We need to begin to break up companies that have as much control over world finances as Goldman Sachs.

    Let me see if I get this right:

    1. Short GS stock
    2. Blog about how evil GS is
    3. ???
    4. Profit!

    There's only one problem with this plan: GS stock has been rising since the start of the year. No wonder the guy believes GS "should not exist": Should GS stock continue to rise, there's no limit to how much the guy can lose.

    (For those who have no clue what I'm talking about: "Shorting a stock" basically involves selling stock you don't own. Your only obligation is to return the stock you "borrowed." If you can buy said stock at a lower price than the price you sold it at, you profit on the difference. If the stock becomes worthless, you basically pocket whatever profit you made from the sale of stock you never owned in the first place.)

    1. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by grimw · · Score: 1

      Of course there's a limit to how much he can lose. He can't lose any more cash than he decided to short, multiplied by how much he leveraged. If he decides not to put in more money when his brokerage asks for more money, they will just sell his shares and collect the cash.

    2. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's probably already covered and hasn't ever lost much due to setting tight stops. Financials have been getting hammered by shorters and GS is no exception. If you don't believe me watch them reinstate the uptick rule, or possibly ban shorting very soon.

    3. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be a little confused. If he shorted GS stocks - he has no shares to sell. He is obligated to buy the stocks he borrowed and then sold. (shorted) and as the original poster suggested - his loss is potentially unlimited.

    4. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Do you know what "short" means? It isn't the same as put options.

      Say GS shares jump to $500 each tomorrow, guess how much cash he loses if he is forced to cover (by not being able to maintain margin requirements, for example). Say they jump to $5000? Say the US dollar goes all Zimbabwe overnight and they jump to $50000?

      He can't lose any more money that the assets he owns, since he can file for bankruptcy, but that's the only limit. Unless he's hedged, say with some way out of the money call options, then he has a maximum loss level - but that's explicitly separate hedging and not due to some limit on losses from shorts.

    5. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      Well, he was partially right, in that if you short, your broker will probably initiate a forced cover when you run out of cash in the account. You can lose whatever your initial proceeds were from the stock sale, plus the cash you have in your brokerage account.

    6. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      His mistake was shorting the stock instead of buying put options. Never short stock, is my theory.

      Just look at it this way: If you short 100 shares of company XYZ at $6.00 and cover at $4.00, you've made $200. If you buy one 6.00 put when the stock is $6.00 and you sell the put when the stock is $4.00, you've made almost $200. Essentially by buying a put instead, you've greatly limited your downside risk at the expense of slightly less profit and a more limited time constraint.

      It's clear that this blogger doesn't know what he's doing.

    7. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course brokers can limit what you can and cannot do with one of their accounts however they see fit, but more than likely you can lose more than the total equity in your account from short selling for the simple fact that you're probably doing it with a margin account which inherently will allow you to do that.

    8. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if he shorted GS stock, and the govt bails him out, this is wrong, in a way. He made an accurate prediction about the health of GS, and was right (or they wouldn't need a bailout).

    9. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can buy options all day long that are worth a cent. However, shorting the financials thus far this year has been _very_ profitable.

    10. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by LordKaT · · Score: 1

      You only need long-term stock devaluation when you're holding a short position for an extended period of time, otherwise you can still profit from shorting a stock in the near-term thanks to intra-day bounces.

    11. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy lost all credibility with me since he has a short position in GS stock... he makes money if the stock goes down. I'm not interested in his opinions now.

      If he wants credibility, he needs to divest himself of all financial connections to the subject of his writings.

    12. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      Actually, they don't allow you to lose more than the total equity in your account. That means it will come out of their pocket. My broker, for example, will issue a margin call well before you've run out of cash to cover the position (I think 35% extra is what you need to maintain), and will force sell/cover the positions before you run out of cash. They're not going to be stuck with the bill when you don't have enough cash in your account to cover and you walk away.

    13. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by ShatteredArm · · Score: 1

      Buying puts over the same period of time was very profitable as well. What's your point?

    14. Re:Wow, did anyone RTFB? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      There's nothing they can do if the price jumps dramatically overnight, due to China selling all it's US dollars on the forex markets, for example.

      But yes the idea of margin is that they margin call until your assets cover the required percentage of the margin loan. But that's the broker covering his butt, if GS jump $3000 a share overnight the broker is not going to say "oh well, win some lose some", he's going to chase you for the debt.

      Of course such a spike in price isn't exactly common or expected - the risk is rather low.

      I still wouldn't be relying on my broker's good graces to limit my losses on a short though ( especially not if you believe your own conspiracy theories on GS, why wouldn't they crush you financially via not covering the margin quickly? I'm sure they have hooks in your broker...)

  29. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I believe what they are trying to cover under the UFO BS is Aurora. The reason I say that is they fly the damned thing over rural states like mine(AR) when it is cloudy, probably testing out those noisy but bad ass engines. The damned thing sounds like a cross between a freight train and a jet and if the sky is clear and calm at dawn you will see the "donuts on a rope" exhaust trail the thing leaves behind. It has got to be the noisiest "secret" I have ever heard.

    But what better way to cover up Aurora than have every nutjob with an abduction story on hard copy so that everyone is looking for little green men instead of super expensive hypersonic combat aircraft? You have to admit, you couldn't cook up a better disinformation campaign if you tried. But with Goldman Sachs there are plenty of eyes on them after the bailout. What better way to cover up the truck full of money you are sneaking out the back than to promote some paranoid whackjob with the Streisand Effect? The only way Goldman Sachs will get caught is if some whistleblower manages to sneak some seriously damaging paperwork to Wikileaks. Otherwise they are just going to laugh all the way to the bank.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  30. Having Worked There.... by AtlasBatterie · · Score: 1

    I wonder what would happen if I stood on a street corner and shrieked that fact like a banshee, and gave interviews telling everyone how awesome The Firm is while throwing feces. If I wasn't gainfully employed...

  31. It's GS by nedlohs · · Score: 1

    They essentially own the US government. See how many people in positions of power are ex-GS.

    It doesn't matter if the law isn't on their side, they are completely above the law anyway.

    Of course, this particular web site seems to be a collection of paranoid rantings, which is strange given the amount of obvious dirt that exists on GS (last year's financial bailouts are a case in point, how much did GS make from them and who was running Treasury at the time again?)

  32. Paranoids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to work in Goldman Sachs, IT dept. They were paying IRRATIONALLY high salaries. As a result, employees became PARANOIDS due to lack of job security.

  33. Ties Between Goldman Sachs & Obama Administrat by Nova+Express · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I suspect that many Slashdotters are unaware of the numerous deep ties between Goldman Sachs and the Obama Administration. A few for instances:

    This above list is by no means exhaustive. Nor are the sources cited above (The Huffington Post, The Nation, etc.) exactly known for their fierce and unstinting criticism of Obama.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  34. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Throw this one there too... Edward Liddy of AIG (remember him on tv a few weeks ago in front of congress) has a $3 million stake in Goldman Sachs, he quit his job with Goldman before taking the $1/year job with AIG.. and now AIG is funneling billions of taxpayer dollars to Goldman. No conflict of interest there.

  35. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by metlin · · Score: 1

    Seriously? Please tell me you are kidding, and that you're not really a moron asking that question.

    What do you think Goldman Sachs is, a company that sells gold teeth on late night TV?

    Get their name out to mainstream media indeed.

  36. Streisand , Goldman Sachs -- All JEWS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DAVID STAR.

    Six lines. Six triangles. Six vertex. SIX SIX SIX.

  37. No a good choice of words, but basically correct. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the clarification. However, the Federal Reserve does, basically, decide the interest rate that will be offered by banks. Many banks are offering less than 1% interest, below the rate of inflation, encouraged by the actions of the Federal Reserve.

  38. oh, really? by superwiz · · Score: 1

    they think that the site implies relationship with goldman despite the 666 at the end? are they then implying that 666 is an appropriate manner to label them?

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  39. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe me if you want, or don't -- but I'm an Aerospace Engineer, whose career focus has been on high-speed propulsion and aerodynamics. Aurora, at least as its been described by aviation "enthusiasts" (not engineers!) doesn't exist. There's no scramjet-powered or PDE-powered sustained hypersonic cruise vehicle. The closest we have is the X-51 , which has yet to fly, and is a testbed. The X-43A was also an experimental aircraft, and of course the Russians have flown axisymmetric test scramjets before.

    The "donuts-on-a-rope" == PDE crowd are mistaken. I'm not a climate scientist, but I've seen those types of clouds form in broad daylight in Southern California. More importantly, I've worked at one of the companies that was in the PDE business until recently, and I can tell you that engine would not produce such an exhaust formation. Moreover, if you seriously think such an engine would be able to produce enough thrust while operating at such a low frequency so as for you to be able to distinguish individual pulses like that, you are mistaken.

    It's a virtual certainty that the U.S. Government has "black" aircraft programs that are supersonic. But airbreathing hypersonic cruise is not a real capability that these aircraft have.

  40. For a number of reasons ... by golodh · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There are two mechanisms at work: one psychological, one institutional.

    First of all, there are psychological factors. It's not the company that responds, it's certain individuals that do. Individual who set policy, or individuals who carry out said policy.

    People who set policy, i.e. people at the top of the food chain in business usually didn't get there by being kind, timid, passive, open-minded, self-effacing and objective. Instead they tend to have much larger egos than the norm and also tend to be more much agressive towards others than usual (usually in the guise of being "effective" "goal-oriented", "focused", and "exercising management authority"). They obviously must be smart enough to get away with being agressive, or they won't be successful. Oh, and by the way, I'm extremely happy that Business offers such people a constructive outlet for their energy and aggression. Because otherwise it would go into Crime or Politics (or both).

    As a result, while they are successful, life shows them on a daily basis that their thinking is correct, their opinions are valuable, and that their approach to life is the right one.

    Now consider what happens when you contradict someone like that. Consider first what it means exactly to contradict someone like that. You and he (or she) are in a business setting, and both are vying for a "group position", i.e. who leads the thinking of whatever group is listening at that time on the issue at hand. And the subject under consideration isn't the weather either, it's (as in the case of the blog on Morgan Sachs) about company policy. Policy as set out and supported over a period of time by themselves.

    With that in mind think of how this contradicting opinion (and the one doing the contradicting) will be perceived. There are no credits for answering that the perception will be that of a threat, if not a challenge.

    So lets reformulate our original and fairly neutral description of "contradicting" a executive of a firm like that.

    I believe the way to formulate it that does justice to the depth of emotion and self-interest would be: "you issue a public challenge to an executive, implying that he is at best incompetent and unethical, and at worst a crook"

    Now about the institutional factors. Consider that high-ranking individuals impact their environment in various ways. First of all, they lead, and they can't do that without some authority. Only the very rarest of individuals can lead purely through their influence, and without exercising authority. The norm is that you shape your environment through selection (read hire-and-fire), rewards, promotions to support and protect your general ideas and the "image" of what you do and what you stand for. In its positive form it's called "Esprit de corps". It's what e.g. the Armed Forces insist on instilling in recruits. They do that because it makes the social coherence of the organization stronger. But in its negative form it can also degenerate into group think, bullying, and abuse (e.g. Nazism, Communism, Party doctrine, Scientology, and even religious abuse at the Airforce Acacdemy (see: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4091956.stm)).

    Now PR officials are a prime example of guards of a firm's public image (i.e. what others think of a firm and its actions). It's their job to be aware of the public image and to steer it in the way the firms wants it to be through propaganda. Lawyers are another example. Apart from their more mundane tasks of drawing up contracts they are specialists in the enforceable obligations in our society operates. Rules on topics like intellectual property, slander, defamation, torts, compensation for damages, etc..

    Now do you understand the reaction of such companies? Their first-response mechanism is PR. Their secondary response are legal threats. Their tertiary response is litigation. All motivated by extremely aggressive and self-confident people who direct a lot of money and therefore wield a lot of power and who perceive the dissonant opinion as a threat to their personal position. Of course they get nasty!

    1. Re:For a number of reasons ... by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 5, Funny

      Long story short:- They do it because they are douche bags.

    2. Re:For a number of reasons ... by symbolic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, and by the way, I'm extremely happy that Business offers such people a constructive outlet for their energy and aggression. Because otherwise it would go into Crime or Politics (or both).

      They are becoming indistinguishable. I'd opine that the whole bailout was nothing than legalized theft - grand larceny actually - on a rather grand scale. Despite the obvious carelessness and contempt inherent in the Wall Street money train, there were few (if any) real consequences.

    3. Re:For a number of reasons ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because otherwise it would go into Crime or Politics (or both).

      Otherwise? So you are saying these aggressive high level management types don't become criminals and politicians? I think it helps them become criminals and politicians. I would much rather them be car jackers, or breaking and entering guys rather than high level corporate criminals or politicians.

  41. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    Do I have a clue whether it is super or hyper sonic? Nope, all i can tell you is the bitch is LOUD. And freight trains don't go plowing over your head with that jet WOOOSH either. I have a buddy that works at LRAFB that says they like to do fly overs of the planes at LRAFB because our town is small but it is also lit up like an Xmas tree and it has tons of military and retired military so we don't complain when they get noisy.

    Maybe that is why the black ops pilots like us too? Hell if I know. I just wish they'd find a way to put a muffler of some sort on that mother, because she sure is loud as hell. Living so close to the base all my life and having friends there and family that's retired Air Force I've got to check out just about every type of plane the USA has officially got, from the C130(can't believe the amount of cargo space they got in those) to the F4 to the F15. pretty much everything but the Raptor, which I don't think is flying nationally yet. And whatever this new mother is, it is an order of magnitude louder than anything I've seen or heard us fly before. So maybe you're right and it is supersonic not hypersonic. As far as the donuts on a rope I can't remember ever seeing them except on the mornings after the new superbitch flies over.

    What I CAN tell you is that mother from the sounds it makes and how quick it passes overhead is FAST and LOUD. Of course after seeing how long they denied the Goblin I doubt any of us will know for decades unless they crash the thing in a populated area. I just hope it ain't that damned loud on the flight deck because if it is I feel sorry for the guys that gotta service that mother.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  42. Goldman Sachs is very corrupt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow! Did you look at the Facts About Goldman Sachs. He suggests that Goldman Sachs is very corrupt.

    There is NO trademark issue here. He makes it very clear that he is not a representative of Goldman Sachs.

  43. Would FXAll do business with us? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the advice about FXAll.com. Often we would not be transferring large amounts, just several thousand dollars. We have accounts with HSBC, one of the partner banks.

    Would FXAll do business with us?

    The web site says "Institutional clients who have a relationship with an FXall liquidity provider, a prime broker or a broker-dealer may be eligible to trade over FXall."

    Is a corporation an "institutional client"? Is HSBC an "FXall liquidity provider"? The web site is written with a lot of jargon, and assumes that readers already know a lot about the business of foreign exchange.

    1. Re:Would FXAll do business with us? by ip_fired · · Score: 1

      On the FXAll site I see that it is for Corporate Treasurers, which I guess you might have at your company. I'm not sure at which size or volume of trades you need to do in order to make going with a company like FXAll more economical. I looked on their liquidity provider page and it looks like HSBC is on there. You could also try looking at a different bank that will give you the features that you want.

      Disclaimer: My employer is one of the FXAll liquidity providers.

      --
      Don't count your messages before they ACK.
  44. War of Attrition by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    I hope he has a bottomless pit of money to fight this, if not he's already lost.

    Today, you purchase your rights.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  45. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by uullly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are some surprisingly uninformed criticisms here.
    - a guy looking for his 15 minutes
    No. I have not noticed he has much interest in fame. At least he doesn't seem to try too hard.
    - site is up only because he's shorting
    No. His short position is besides the point. He expects them to go down on fundamentals. This is a protest site.

    To this post:
    Can you point out some specific posts that qualify as 'bordering on schizophrenic lunacy'?
    The few posts I looked over sound about right.

    I think this site (or anyone like it) is not just a good idea, but serves an important role to further necessary civic action. This far into the economic crisis that /.ers think otherwise surprises me.

    As a current client, I know the site holder to the extent of what DD I could do. His other site does provide quite a bit more information.

  46. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Zerth · · Score: 1

    No, they are a company whose image has taken a big hit. They are currently hiring an entire marketing department which, in part, will "shape a messaging and brand strategy reflects today's dynamics and the firm's leadership role in helping to define it."

    They went from being the largest bulge bracket firm to being a holding bank, lots of AIG's government money is going straight to them(with the attendant bad will), and a huge chunk of their growth in the last 2 years was from subprime derivatives.

  47. Re:No a good choice of words, but basically correc by Temposs · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you want a higher interest rate at any given time, just check out www.bankrate.com, which is a great site for researching the health of a bank and its various interest rates. Here's a page I often turn to in order to see what the highest rates are:

    http://www.bankrate.com/brm/rate/mmmf_highratehome.asp?web=brm&params=US,416&prodtype=chksav&market=416&product=33&state=US&sort=2

    To choose a bank to deposit money into for savings, I generally will look at the bank with the highest interest rate that also has 4 stars(which indicates very good health). The bank I'm currently with for savings emails me whenever their rate changes, and they have excellent 24/7 customer service, with a competitive interest rate.

    Another good site for this kind of thing is the finance section of www.fatwallet.com:

    http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/

    The users keep a running list of the top returning CDs, Savings Accounts, and Credit Cards. They talk about all the minutiae of the different accounts and customer service, etc...

    --
    Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon. -Orson Scott Card
  48. From the other side by FooRat · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I own a small ISV startup, and you would be surprised how many people are more than willing to fabricate and spread complete lies about your company and products (for various reasons of their own, usually vested interests e.g. competitors, or people using your as a scapegoat for their own failures, especially in government), and you'd be surprised how much damage they can do to your business.

    Unfortunately if you show yourself to be a pussycat who just rolls over and does nothing, these people and their damaging lies do proliferate rapidly and exponentially, and you'll be crushed - so your hand is forced - you have to be willing to show that you take the liars seriously and will fight unfair slander to the end. So you are in effect forced to have policies in place to defend yourself against unfair attacks. And once you have procedures and policies, it gets harder to sit and say on a case-by-case basis, are these negative comments legitimate, or bogus. E.g. sites like this can be and often are set up by competitors or other people with vested interests. I'm guessing the top management in a very large company don't sit on a case-by-case basis and say "go after this guy", they just have e.g. lawyers and others who work for them who are tasked with dealing with these kinds of things routinely and systematically.

    So while I don't condone this (I'm a big 'consumer advocate' myself), I can at least understand it.

  49. So, barbera streisand loves fight club? by Auroch · · Score: 1

    ... I don't get it. Shouldn't she have bruises or something? :P

    ---
    I completely understand this post. Perhaps not the ones previous, but this post - yes.

    --
    Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
  50. 13 trillion by witherstaff · · Score: 1

    Why get so upset, what's 13 trillion between friends? Really it's only $42,105 for every man, woman and child - I'm sure the bankers that gamed the system and broke it the first time have learned their lesson and will do better this time around.

  51. Read more? There is no more! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Below the comment there is a "read the rest of this comment" link... yet there is no more to read than what already showed up before I clicked the link!

  52. Banking as a public utility... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... seems to me that money related industries and the issuance of currency need to be put back in public hands.

    Over the last few weeks I've been thinking long the way the current monetary system is structured, the real problem is that the banks (private investors) own the government.

    I know I'm not the only one who' tired of all the BS.

  53. Attorneys != PR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Attorneys don't know jack shit about PR, just about greed. Seriously, if they knew anything about PR, then we wouldn't have the asshat judge who tried to sue for $54 million and eventually lost his job, his pants and the lawsuit, Barbara Streisand would still feel as though she lives in privacy, and Goldman nut-Sachs wouldn't be a headline on slashdot.

  54. Goldman Sachs Antichrist Contest by Baldrson · · Score: 1
  55. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not Goldman Sachs. They're probably the most recognizable name in finance. They hate being covered by the press. The press picks on them because they're basically the Harvard of investment banking.

  56. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because I'm his alien boss and there is a termination clause should he admit he in cahoots with us. And we're not speciist I have the same termination clause in my contr

  57. Bear Sterns? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't Bear Stearns on a rampage to shut down criticism on the internet just before it went bust?

  58. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by pyite · · Score: 1

    lots of AIG's government money is going straight to them

    Shock of all shocks. AIG owed Goldman money. A LOT of money. The whole reason for AIG to be bailed out was so that the companies that AIG was obligated to pay money to would be minimally affected. Goldman happened to be the biggest one of those.

    All of Goldman's positions were either hedged or collateralized (mind you most of AIG's trading partners did not ask for collateral from AIG, Goldman did). If Goldman had to cash in on its hedges of exposure to AIG (if AIG had not been bailed out), the AIG collapse would have cascaded its way through the financial system far worse than it did.

    --

    "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

  59. Is it because of web browsers on phones? by JohnnyHolmes · · Score: 1

    When I was still making porn films, just a little strip of pubic hair in the middle was in vogue with the women. Why are so many of these web sites like that? Why not use the full width of the screen?

  60. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by pyite · · Score: 1

    1. Henry Paulson, former treasury secretary and key architect of the bailout plan, is a former CEO of Goldman Sachs.

    And he sold all of his Goldman stock before accepting the position. So, he had zero legal tie to the firm at that point.

    2. Goldman Sachs has receieved 10 billion in TARP money.

    Change "has received" to "was forced to take." It was money they did not want, and are going to pay back ASAP.

    3. Goldman Sachs has received 12-20 billion in additional monies via the AIG bailout.

    Oh, you must be talking about the money that AIG legitimately owed Goldman. You can argue day and night about the AIG bailout, but to whom was the money going to go to if not the companies owed money by AIG?

    Take your FUD elsewhere, please. You have zero understanding of the current economic problems and shouldn't speak about them out of turn.

    --

    "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

  61. blue jeans cable, anyone? by lawaetf1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Wow, nobody has posted the wondrous story of Blue Jeans Cable?

    Monster Cable sent this small cable co a threatening letter with a grab-bag of patents that they claim he violated. Little did they know the owner was a former lawyer himself. His reply to Monster is absolutely priceless.

    --
    CommentBot 0.7a running with args "-module irritate,disagree -target random"
  62. Re:No a good choice of words, but basically correc by darthflo · · Score: 1

    [...]encouraged by the actions of the Federal Reserve.

    "The Fed's task is to supply enough reserves to support an adequate amount of money and credit, avoiding the excesses that result in inflation and the shortages that stifle economic growth." (Source, via 'pedia

    In financially dire times, like right now, offering extremely little interest is just the right thing to do. On one hand, this benefits entrepreneurs who can borrow at lower rates and attemt to fight recession from their side, on the other hand it actively discourages people from saving (which is good in that situation). Seems counterintuitive, doesn't it? The idea goes like this: If you're saving up your money now, the market will continue to shrink. Companies will probably lower their prices in order to convince any buyers to buy more product. Now, prices all around will be tumbling. What you could buy for $20 weeks ago is now only $15. Deflation sets in. Your money's getting more and more valuable and just because of that, you'll hold back with spending. Instead of buying something now for $500, you'll wait a week for it to arrive at $400. Then another week for $300 and so on.
    At some point, just cutting down on the margins will not be enough. Now jobs will be cut and salaries shrunk. As usual, this will mostly affect people easy to replace. Salespeople, manufactoring personnel, accountants, lower, perhaps middle management.
    Since it's all recession, crisis and less money now, you'll spend even less. Instead of brand food and eating out once a week it's Tesco's Value and one brand meal per week at home. The whole circle goes on until in the end the economy actually shrinks into non-existence.

    In order to avoid that: Spend healthily. Save up enough for a nice retirement, but don't overdo it. All the wealth we currently have only exists through this fragile system of (a little) inflation. Money needs to travel in order to create additional wealth. Spend it (along with everybody else) and you'll get back more (through bigger paychecks).

  63. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Zerth · · Score: 1

    I sure hope they are hedged. If my company was leveraged over 1000:1, (pdf, see page 25) I'd want it to be hedged.

  64. They do more than that. by kickassweb · · Score: 1

    Banks CREATE money. They do this by creating notes for money that's been loaned.

    --
    I'd love to change the world but I can't find the source code.
  65. Helping banks steal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's part of the reason banks are able to steal from people: Their are people like you who try to convince others that everything they do is only logical.

  66. So how would you find them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, that's what you MEAN, isn't it? It would be more interesting if people couldn't find places that criticised money.

  67. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kikes to a man, I'll wager.

  68. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    Anybody who is interested in the immense banking fraud we have can start reading here:
    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/04/time-to-breakup-goldman-sachs.html
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/transcript1.html

    additionally, you can add
    127.0.0.1 nytimes.com
    to your hosts file

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  69. Re:Signal To Noise Ratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1/ True, Goldman Sachs strongly encourages mobility to/from public service and international institutions - for obvious reasons including (but not only) self-interest. Note that Paulson repeatedly declined until he was "forced" into accepting the position. In hindsight - we now understand why.

    2/ Goldman Sachs escaped the subprime crisis by correctly hedging it; had a sound balance sheet (having started deleveraging much earlier) and much cash at hand; had secured financing both from Warren Buffet *and* directly from the market; and had not had a single quarterly loss. Even JP Morgan with all their deposits and unscathed balance sheet received four times as much public money. So what is your point here? By the way looking at where the stock trades it seems it was a wiser use of taxpayer money than GM, AIG or Citi... and GS just laid out a plan to repay within the next few months.

    3/ This is an old myth - debunked multiple times. GS had contracts that either AIG would honor - or AIG insurers would have. GS is really *paranoid* about counterparty - and has been so much before anybody else. It is only the dramatic cascading effect of AIG collapse that would have hit GS - and ruined practically everybody. AIG is huge - from being (by far) the largest airline in the world to even the insurer of most french city councils. (Yes, even the french Ministry of finance made the trip to Washington to beg for an AIG bailout.) Think Boeing canceling the 787 program, public transportations stopping in many cities, prime time soccer matches canceled, etc. Really, as bad as *that*.

    Point being: this blog is a lunatic troll based on uneducated misunderstandings and outright lies only to serve a populist agenda.

    I sincerely wish GS wins that one.
    Disclaimer: I used to work at GS (AC posting).