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Time Warner Transfer Caps May Inspire Fair-Price Legislation
Time Warner's recently announced plan to expand their broadband transfer caps to new markets drew heavy criticism, which prompted their attempt to smooth things over with a ridiculously expensive "unlimited" plan. That wasn't enough for New York Representative Eric Massa, who now says he will draft legislation to "curb tiers, particularly in areas where a broadband provider owns a monopoly on service." Massa said, "Time Warner believes they can do this in Rochester, NY; Greensboro, NC; and Austin and San Antonio, Texas, and it's almost certainly just a matter of time before they attempt to overcharge all of their customers," adding, "I believe safeguards must be put in place when a business has a monopoly on a specific region."
Unlimited water and electricity for flat rates plus a pony.
The real solution is to get rid of government-enforced monopolies on utilities.
These ridiculous caps are all about cable companies protecting their becoming-outdated business model. Right now, they charge for content (HBO, various extra channel packages, etc.). Customers getting high quality video (for some definitions of high quality) from places like Hulu is eventually going to eat up the cable monopoly cash cow that Time Warner Cable currently enjoys. So how do they stop it and protect their outdated business model? Caps. Insanely low transfer caps that all but eliminate high amounts of streaming video and that protect their cable company business.
If there's a reason the gov't should step in and put a stop to low transfer caps, it's this.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
I don't see why this wasn't enacted many many years ago.
Comcast, for example, would buy all of a region's smaller cable companies and make them fly the Comcast banner. Then prices would jump 20-40% in the next year. Usually the buy-outs would have to be approved, and would be approved under the condition that Comcast provide similar service for similar prices.
Granted monopolies need to be policed like this. This isn't a case of other companies not wanting to bother with the cost and time to set up competition.
This is exactly what Time-Warner was banking on. You don't see cell phone companies deciding that unlimited text messaging is no longer unlimited, or that your 500 minutes isn't sustainable, so now you get 200 minutes. Mainly because cell phone companies have competition everywhere. If you don't like Sprint, try US Cellular or Verizon. Maybe even T-mobile. They all have their ups and downs, but more importantly, there are alternate choices. ISPs aren't always that way.
Hourly-fee dial-up ISPs went away pretty quickly once competitors started popping up. I think most broadband ISPs were starting out at the unlimited level to compete with dial-up ISPs, and now that the dial-up ISPs are no longer a threat, they want to reneg on the contracts they made us all sign. Not our fault your business model wasn't able to be supported, now honor our damn contracts.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
It is not so much the caps.. it is the fact the the rates are 3-5x what people are paying now which is, antidotally, 2-3x times what most people around the world pay. Caps wouldn't be so bad if everyone got some benefit.. as it is it is just an excuse for the ISPs to grab a 3-5x price increase.
I see so many articles about ISPs hiking up their rates or beginning to use bandwidth caps but what I want to know is why?
Yes, a customer who downloads 300 GB a month is more expensive than someone who doesn't but that sort of customer behavior is something that all service businesses have to deal with. I work in the webserver management department of my company. For a flat monthly rate, we will fix, upgrade, secure, and do whatever other odd jobs you want to your server. Some customers make fifty (stupid) requests per month and take up tons of our time but they get billed the same amount as the customers who only make one or two requests. But at the end of the month, both customers are getting the same level of service. How did my company figure out how to reasonably deal with this sort of overuse and underuse behavior while large ISPs can't?
Another problem I have with raising rates and imposing limits is the lack of justification. The only thing I've ever heard is "It's those evil pirates! They're making your bills go up!" Yeah, right. There was a time when illegal media downloading was pretty much the only kind of media downloading that existed but now we have Netflix and iTunes and a whole slew of completely legitimate streaming sites. So let's say I do pay $150/month for unlimited bandwidth. Where is my $150 going? I'm sure there is an answer to this and I would be much more willing to pay it as long as it doesn't include "into the pocket of our CEO". Anyone have a link to an article (preferably written by an unbiased third party) that would explain this?
Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
I pay X amount of dollars to have Y data download rate (and Z data upload rate). My ISP advertised the rate, I bought the rate, that's what I expect them to be able to deliver "most" of the time.
Now, if they want to put a cap on my useage, say C gigabytes per month, then if that limit is less than (2592000 s * X bits/s), I expect my useage fee to decrease proportionately to however much smaller my new download limit becomes.
DECREASE. Not increase. They will be taking away value that I expect based on the advertised service. I expect to pay less for less value.
you both probably get better and faster service for both TV and internet than I do with Embarq and shantel. We've got no cable option for internet and embarq's had a monopoly here since before it was Embarq, the wires are literally disentegrating and calling for support on anything will half the time get you hung up on because they have no need to do anything to keep you as a customer.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The main problem we have with it is the industry should be providing MORE service for less money, not the opposite.
Good-bye
From Time Warners' financial filings:
"High-speed data costs decreased for the three and nine months ended September 30, 2008 primarily due to a decrease in per-subscriber connectivity costs, partially offset by subscriber growth.
"In 2007, TW made $3,730 Million, on high speed data alone, and then had to turn around and spend $164 Million to support the cost of the network. 2007 total profit on high speed data: $3.566 Billion"
"In 2008, TW made $4,159 Million, on high speed data alone, and then had to turn around and spend $146 Million to support the cost of the network. 2008 total profit on high speed data: $4.013 Billion"
Stop shilling for corporations. Clearly the unlimited broadband model has been extremely profitable.
Wake up and smell the non-corporate content suppression.
Bandwidth and infrastructure does cost money.
But heres the reality. In the Greensboro area (where I live and know what goes on at the TWC datacenter) they charge approximately 100 times what it costs them to provide the bandwidth and infrastructure.
We complain because some of us who work in the industry know how much bullshit the prices are and more importantly we know for a fact that their traffic shaping and caps are not because its expensive, they are because they simple do not want to pay for the bandwidth they've sold.
The infrastructure they have is more than enough to support much more bandwidth with the switch to DOCSIS 3.0, which they are already doing.
The only limit is the pipes from them to the rest of the world.
When they drop services, they don't lower my price.
Why am I still paying the same price when they outsourced their news servers and put the entire north and south carolina region on a single link to giganews which was saturated during the TRIAL PERIOD, before the moved everyone on to it. It was never upgraded, users just get slower and slower news service, and they spend less and less, and I still pay the same thing.
Until you actually know what you're talking about, don't try to convience those of us with a clue about how much it costs to run a network. Some of us have done it and know its bullshit.
Their prices are hardly fair, take a look at their rate plans, do the math, compare them to what a normal business pays for unreliable service like the provide to the home, then get a clue.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I'm in Austin, so I stand to be affected by this in the near future.
I wouldn't be opposed to a metered plan if it was really a metered plan.
The electric company doesn't care how many toasters I own, or how often I make toast, or anything. They charge me an activation fee when I start service, and then they bill me for the electricity I use. THAT is a metered plan. If I could do that with bandwidth (at a reasonable rate per GB), I'd be perfectly happy.
This Time Warner crap is NOT like that. They want to charge me an activation fee, a monthly usage fee, AND a dollar per gigabyte for every GB over their arbitrarily imposed limit. That's NOT cool.
The basic point of the pricing structure appears to be to control my behavior online, and it irritates me no end.
Because cable companies have increased their rates at about twice that of inflation for years. My bill has gone from $40 dollars for a platinum package (all channels) 10 years ago to $150 for silver package and far less service than I had then. My internet speed has been increased by 2.5 Mb/sec in 10 years as technology advanced (when they switched to fiber a few years back).
In addition, these companies took millions of dollars in funding from the government to improve their infrastructure for just this very reason. To plan for future capacity. They did nothing with it other than spam additional channels in tiered packaged that no one wants and are now overselling internet bandwidth (according to them) even though I never see a slowdown and haven't for years, even before fiber.
On top of that, they have a monopoly in most areas where people who want broadband have no choice but to pay if they want to retain anything other than dial-up. They expect me to pay what I pay now for an unlimited plan, with cable and premium channels, just for the internet access I have now.
It's obvious they are doing this to prevent competition from sites like Hulu. With the internet, you really don't need cable tv. Given a good pipe and content providers offering up content directly, it severely compromises their business model. This technology should be dirt cheap these days as usually happens with wide adoption, yet the price for broadband keeps skyrocketing. There is no where near enough competition.
Cable companies have been gouging consumers for years with anti-competitive agreements with local municipalities that prevent other telecoms from entering the scene. If I had another option, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Perhaps this will put some regulation back on them until there is competition or at least an environment that fosters competition.
No, I wouldn't. But if I go in to that restaurant and start eating and, after 5 plates, they tell me that they won't give me any more, that I've reached my cap, then yes I will expect a refund. They didn't include a 5-plate cap in what they offered, it isn't included in what they offered. If they want to change the deal to something that does include it, then you better believe I'm going to want to change my end of the deal too to reflect what they're offering from their side.
The difference between TW and your scenario is that in your scenario the consumer's deciding not to use all he's entitled to, with TW it's TW deciding the consumer won't be allowed everything he's entitled to.
Is it just me or do I find the complaint against Bandwidth Caps ridiculous?
I only seem to see people complaining about it in America, most of Europe (afaik) has gotten used to having bandwidth caps.
Are you out of your mind? The reason why you see people complaining about it in America and not in Europe is because a lot of European countries do not have any kind of download caps whatsoever so we don't have to complain about it.
CEO of time warner said that broadband costs are spiraling out of control.
Their SEC Statements for 2008 said YOY operating costs for their broadband service decreased 11%. It also netted them nearly 4 billion dollars in revenues.
In 2007 they also reported decreased operating costs and massive profits.
I'd love for that asshole to testify to congress the same thing, cause I'm sending my congressmen their 10K statements. Maybe a CEO going to jail for blatantly doing nearly the same shit bank CEO's and other officers have been doing will finally wake these people up.
http://stopthecap.com/2009/04/10/why-is-time-warner-saying-costs-increasing-to-consumers-but-decreasing-to-stockholders/
I work at a relatively small ISP, and our Internet circuits cost us $50-75/meg (plus we have multiple paths for redundancy), and that doesn't include our infrastructure (routers/switches, UPS/generator, A/C, people, etc.). If you want a guaranteed 6 meg pipe, you shouldn't expect to get it for $99.
You—like many other people—are confusing "speed of pipe" and "number of bytes transferred".
We know your ISP doesn't pay $50 per megabyte transferred, because you'd have to charge customers thousands of dollars a month for the equivalent of dial-up access. You might pay $50 for each megabit/second of pipe you want to the Internet, but if you do, you are getting severely overcharged.
If you sell me a 6Mbps connection, then, yes, I (and everyone else) expect to be able to use all 6Mbps twenty-four hours a day. Most users probably won't use it 24/7, but they all expect that whenever they get on the Internet, then that's the speed they'll get.
Your costs don't change if people do use their connection to download 24/7, because all peering agreements are based on transit out of a network. So, you don't want people uploading a lot, but downloading is essentially "free", since there are no costs beyond the price of the pipe, and that is charged based on the max speed, not the number of bytes transferred.
Last, there are ISPs that realize everything I have said is true, and manage to provide the full speed that was contracted for every hour of every day, with no limit on the total bytes transferred, all at a reasonable cost. And, those ISPs aren't losing money.
I would really love to see the telecoms pipe separated from the cable television. Force them to rent from the telecom companies while ensuring that the Telecom companies themselves couldn't get a monopoly on entire regions.
Better yet, have each city pay and build out the fiber network and treat it like a utility to the content providers. That would open up the industry to competition as they wouldn't have to own and/or build the pipes to deliver their content, it would regulate the cost of the pipe itself, and the taxpayer would eventually earn back the cost of building the network via the rental to the cable/internet providers. It would also remove a huge barrier to new competition entering the area as they won't have to build out their own fiber lines to compete.
Sounds like a pipe dream though...(ouch..bad pun)
First they sell 'unlimited internet' for a "lowish" monthly fee like $30. Then they collect a bunch of subscriptions and don't funnel sufficient amount into R&D, so they then create the idea of 'scarcity', so they can implement 'caps' (pre-emptive strike against being able to sub to an "on-demand" download HD movie service" for more than 1 movie). Now they re-introduce the old unlimited at the new shiny price of $150.
Like cell service. Reasonably usable plans were available for $29-$39 dollars. Then it was $49, now it's closer to $59 or
$69 if you want, say 10 hours a month of unrestricted call-time.
Unlike computer services which used to be priced in 5-15$/minute of cpu time or hour of computer time that eventually fell to
too small to be metered. This was the effect of innovation, competition and progress.
Now, we see the opposite effect of little or no competition and low innovation and low progress -- the companies divide up
their current 'offerings' into smaller chunks to give smaller amounts for the same price while 'quintupling' the price for
the old service.
Sounds like a ~ 400% price increase for the same old service, or "500% inflation". Someone asked for items that have increased
by large amounts (much more than the published rate of 'inflation')...it's not all items at the same time, but a 5x jump for
unlimited computer download access might qualify as an example of excessive inflation -- either that or gouging... Why?
Because they can.
Free market capitalism becomes corrupt when a few people (or pseudopeople(Corps)) buy up the market. Seems like corruption is the natural consequence of capitalism. It's even being acknowledged that the pay-for-performance system in place for financial was one of the main factors leading to the systemic abuse, fraud and corruption that is slowly falling out as people's abuses are falling out of the woodwork as deleveraging and the Fed's mantra of "constant-inflation is good" mantra is running into problems.
It's unrealistic and a systemic abuse to constantly inflate the currency as the Fed has done and has stated as one of its guiding goals -- not keeping inflation 'in check', but always making sure there is some inflation around 2%/year. The idea of 'deflation', was so scary, recently, that the Federal Reserve "printed" hundreds of billions of dollars over last fall just to inject into the economy to stimulate inflation to counter the economy's contraction. Rather than allowing natural deflation to occur (as happened in the stock market to some extent), the dollar should have been allowed to contract by 3-4% as the economy
contracted. Instead, they print more paper, so each dollar becomes worth less (inflation) to counter the natural contraction.
When the economy rebounds, there will be so much money in the economy, we risk an unpredictable rebound. Instead of providing
stability, the Fed has its focus on constant low-level stimulation, regardless of economic conditions. Pretty stupid policy to leave in the hands of private enterprise.
Free market capitalism becomes corrupt when a few people (or pseudopeople(Corps)) buy up the market.
That is not a freemarket. A freemarket is a "free market". If I wanted to and had the money in a free market I could have cable or fiber optics lain down to provide any and all services it could handle. But there is no free market. Instead the telecos and cablecos try to block competition by blocking access. The radio and TV broadcasters do the same with the airwaves.
Seems like corruption is the natural consequence of capitalism.
Corruption doesn't apply to capitalism any more than it applies to communism and socialism. Anything and everything, including churches, mosques, and temples are susceptible to corruption.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Capacity is only unlimited if income is unlimited. Even in a monopoly people will only pay so much, so there's a limited income to expand the network - which puts hard physical limits on capacity, and to make any money at all the network has to be contended.
Thing is is here in the USA cablecos and telcos received almost $200 billion to buildout broadband but they did not. All they did was use the money to pad their bottom lines. They also battle attempts by others build out broadband. Some articles and posts on /. have been about this, whither it's telecos trying to block muni wifi or cablecos trying to block cities from installing cable. One example is A Broadband Utopia. Commercial broadband businesses tried to stop it but were unsuccessful. They were successful though having the Utah state government enact a law that requires it to be open, which was planned from the beginning. Because of the network Comcast was forced to offer a $90 bundle.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I have a redundant 100 MB/s fiber link in Chicago that I pay $3000.00 a month for. Conceptually, I can achieve a data transfer throuput of 259 TB per month. If I use TW's new business model by selling data throughput at $1.00 per GB, I could realize a net profit of only $262,216.00 per month. I better think of raising that fee to $1.25 per GB (I may need the extra $66,304.00/month to pay the perception management team and lawyers when I am done). Go figure, I didn't even get any of the free massive government "Internet Infrastructure Support" cash a few years back like TW did (1.22 B). No wonder they are farther along in thier "Rape the general consumer" business model than I am! On the other hand, I guess I need to branchout... I hear there is someone in DC handing out cash again....