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Quantum Theory May Explain Wishful Thinking

explosivejared writes "Humans don't always make the most rational decisions. As studies have shown, even when logic and reasoning point in one direction, sometimes we chose the opposite route, motivated by personal bias or simply 'wishful thinking.' This paradoxical human behavior has resisted explanation by classical decision theory for over a decade. But now, scientists have shown that a quantum probability model can provide a simple explanation for human decision-making — and may eventually help explain the success of human cognition overall."

33 of 415 comments (clear)

  1. Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Well, from the abstract:

    Two experimental tasks in psychology, the two-stage gambling game and the Prisoner's Dilemma game, show that people violate the sure thing principle of decision theory. These paradoxical findings have resisted explanation by classical decision theory for over a decade. A quantum probability model, based on a Hilbert space representation and Schrodinger's equation, provides a simple and elegant explanation for this behaviour. The quantum model is compared with an equivalent Markov model and it is shown that the latter is unable to account for violations of the sure thing principle. Accordingly, it is argued that quantum probability provides a better framework for modelling human decision-making.

    The human brain is a complex organ. Unfortunately the kind people at the "Royal Society for Articles Only People with Money Can Read" would not allow me to review this research. I would have found this research much more compelling had they reported a much more thorough sample analysis. I'm going to predict that people from different walks of life would respond differently to the Prisoner's Dilemma game. For instance, if you did this on regular citizens with no history of jail time versus convicts serving sentences, I would expect you to have to adapt your model.

    Because you encountered some percentage of "wishful thinking" does not necessarily make that a tried and true percentage unless it is true for human beings in different groups that may affect this decision making. If it truly is quantum mechanics at work, I would suspect that you would see the same percentage in convicts vs non-convicts, Russians vs Americans, women vs men, scientists vs priests, orphans vs parented children, etc. For you see, I'm going to make the assumption that people are deciding on wishful thinking based on their history of interacting with other humans.

    I'm also noticing a disturbing trend in "quantum mechanics" being spewed whenever we don't understand something. I caution you that people in the future might look back on this and laugh that such crude research could in any way conclude that quantum mechanics is at work. It's almost as if we assume we understand other possible explanation so it must be the one we don't understand very well. We don't understand photosynthesis --> must be quantum mechanics! We don't understand the human mind --> must be quantum mechanics! etc. Am I saying quantum mechanics has nothing to do with these things? No. I'm just saying I have seen no conclusive proof.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by timster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm not sure you're looking at this the right way. The abstract does not suppose that this phenomenon results from a quantum physics effect, though I don't know if the research does. Rather, the abstract and the linked article are applying the mathematical models behind quantum theory to problems in cognition. The brain could very well compute these results using classical physics.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    2. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this, but I wonder if wishful thinking is just a way of implementing a particular strategy for survivial. What I suggest could be applied to running a business or living in a Darwinian world.

      There are a couple of ways to go about survival in a highly competitive enviornment.

      The most straightforward is to be better than everybody else at one or more things. If your competitors run at 3-4mph and you can run at 5mph then you're going to be the one that catches the gazalle and has dinner. The problem with this approach is that EVERYBODY is trying to catch that gazelle and EVERYBODY is out on the track every morning trying to run a little faster. If you succeed at all it will only be by a little bit, but a little bit is enough, so I think this is the predominant method of survival.

      The other approach is to just try to do something completely differently. Most likely you'll fail and starve and your genes won't be passed on (directly - though your cousin might pass them on), but just maybe you'll succeed. If you do succeed there is a good chance that it won't be just by an incremental margin.

      So, if I were designing an ultimate survivor species, I'd have it do a grinding incremental evolution (approach #1) most of the time. However, I'd also have members of the species occassionally take huge risks for a possible huge reward. As long as families are big enough and these risks aren't frequent then even if the odd member of the family dies the genes that convey these tendencies will still be passed on. If a family member gets lucky then it will be at the top of the food chain for generations.

      Perhaps wishful thinking is just an artifact of the brain that we call "wishful thinking" when things go wrong, and "creativity" or "innovation" when that crazy idea that everybody knows won't work actually does work?

    3. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>I'm going to make the assumption that people are deciding on wishful thinking based on their history of interacting with other humans.

      You make a really good point here. When I started on Ebay circa 2002 I trusted people to be fair and honest, like me. Now many years later after being burned multiple times, I don't trust anybody. I assume they are going to find some way to scam me, whether it's directly (credit chargeback) or indirectly (unfair negatives harming my future sales)*. I still have the same brain as seven years ago, but what's changed is my "history of interacting with other humans" and that affects my choices. I'm sure you're right: A convict is less-likely to choose the "trust others" option than the average person, and more-likely to choose the immediate payoff per the traditional Game Theory.

      And no quantum mechanics does not apply to this research. Quantum mechanics is not random; it's predictable and understandable.

      *
      * Example - a buyer once negged me because the postman ran over the package with his truck. How is this in any way my fault? Stupid idiot. More recently, a seller sold me a laptop with spilled soda on it, and then refused to refund claiming it was "as is". Sorry but that doesn't excuse selling junk; U.S. law requires revealing if equipment is non-operative, especially in mail order where buyers cannot inspect the item. (sigh). You cannot trust anybody on Ebay, either buyers or sellers.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. It feels like this sort of headline is going to get people thinking "spooky quantum particle magic" rather than just using some of the same math that is used in quantum mechanics to model how competing reflexes and instincts add up to a decision.

      When weighing our decision we have to take into consideration the chance that we misunderstood the rules of the game or that the explanation was a lie and we're being conned. We have all sorts of social reflexes and instincts that compete to overrule any mathematical solution we think we've found. If I read it correctly, it is the way you can model all these competing reactions adding up to a single decision that they are suggesting is similar to a superposition of probabilities you see in physics models.

      Then again, I might be wrong. *waffles*

    5. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The abstract does not suppose that this phenomenon results from a quantum physics effect, though I don't know if the research does. Rather, the abstract and the linked article are applying the mathematical models behind quantum theory to problems in cognition. The brain could very well compute these results using classical physics.

      You're correct that the main thrust of the linked article is just the application of the mathematical formalism of quantum mechanics to cognition and game theory. However, the end of the article does have some speculation about whether there could be some more literally quantum-mechanical basis for human cognition. Seems like complete B.S. to me, but it is there in the article.

      There's a long history of people trying to apply quantum-mechanical concepts to all kinds of things outside physics, from religion to social science. Generally it's all nonsense. In this particular article, they observe some complex cognitive behavior that doesn't fit the kind of utility-optimizing model that's commonly assumed in economics. They (a) try to explain this using cognitive dissonance, and (b) come up with a novel application of the mathematical formalism of quantum mechanics for modeling cognitive dissonance. IMO, the B.S. sets in at step a. There are lots of reasons the people in the study could be behaving in this particular way, and cognitive dissonance is only one of them.

      In the prisoner's dilemma situation they describe, a long-term strategy that's often evolutionarily successful is tit-for-tat, in which you defect if your opponent's last choice was defection, and play honestly if their last choice was to play honestly. Tit-for-tat is arguably sort of programmed into the human psyche, as an evolved mechanism for making social animals succeed in groups. From that point of view, the question is why these people so often chose not to follow tit-for-tat, often choosing to defect even if their partner had played honestly in the first round.

      I can think of at least two good reasons that are just as plausible (and probably just as impossible to test scientifically) as the authors'. One is that the people in this study go through the first round playing honestly, and then in the second round they tend to say, "Participating in this study is boring. I'm hungry for lunch. Maybe I'll make it more fun by doing the opposite choice the second time around. It would be less boring to try each choice at least once." Another possibility is that they imagine the psychodrama of the situation and find it emotionally rewarding. They imagine telling their friends afterwards, "Ha ha, that poor shmuck! I played him like a trout. First I lured him in by being honest in the first round, and then I dropped the bomb on him the second time around. He didn't even know what hit him."

      Both of these explanations would be considered irrational by a classical economist, which means exactly nothing. Maybe it's perfectly rational to entertain yourself, or to set up a good story to entertain your friends with.

    6. Re:Unfortunately I'm a Bit Skeptical by mdielmann · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was thinking the same thing. If everyone does the same thing, this leads to two results, one of which you mentioned. Superiority is going to be an incremental issue, since everyone is racing for the same goal. The second is, it's obvious that that is your goal. For instance, as a prey species, if all the predators are going for speed, I might go for maneuverability. Sure, I can't outrun them, but I can change direction with no speed loss and they have to slow down, loop back, and speed up again. It might give me enough time to get away, or (on a species scale) just not make it profitable for that type of predator to catch me.
      Throwing in random variability improves overall success for the species because you have a built-in response to the unusual and the unexpected - you do unusual and unexpected things, too. And your responses might be just what's needed in certain survival circumstances.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
  2. coincidence by unixcrab · · Score: 5, Informative

    The same mathematical model does not necessarily mean that thought processes are driven by anything quantum mechanical. Quantum theory uses probability models as do psychological models. They are defined by probability theory and not the other way round. i.e. quantum theory uses models that existed before the discretization of energy was even considered.

    1. Re:coincidence by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      You may be right, but if you present it that way how is a geeky theoretical physicist going to get grant money to go hang out with the hot chicks in the psychology department?

    2. Re:coincidence by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

      That seems to be the point made in the article, i.e. "[t]his same mathematical formalism provides an explanation for interference of thoughts in human judgments". They're using the mathematics, not the physics.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:coincidence by blueg3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Technically, an arbitrary physical process (like the functioning of the brain) is based on smaller-scale subprocesses that eventually boil down to quantum-scale interactions.

      To claim that this implies that quantum-mechanical behavior would be evident in the larger-scale process shows a misunderstanding of the physics.

  3. I choose not to believe this... by mc1138 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or is that just wishful thinking?

  4. I hate uncertainty by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    which is why I make sure every cat I put in a box has been killed beforehand. Suck on that, Schrodinger.

  5. People are stupid. by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That seems a much simpler explanation.

    Especially when I see contestants on Deal or No Deal who turn-down $50,000 "banker payoffs" and end-up with only $100 or less in their cases. Pure logic dictates that your odds of winning the big prize is almost nothing, and you should take the banker payoff, but people don't use logic. They use emotion. They "feel" their way through life instead of thinking.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:People are stupid. by Binty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We probably don't need an elaborate quantum theory to explain this behavior, but we might want to have it in order to predict behavior we haven't observed.

      Wouldn't it be neat if we had a set of behavioral models that could predict how people would act in the aggregate for any arbitrary game?

      Maybe that's not possible, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to do it.

  6. Magical quantum mechanical fairy dust by tylersoze · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's all well and good to use the mathematical techniques of quantum mechanics in other fields but the math by itself is not quantum theory. I get really annoyed with the "Ohhh something weird and mysterious we don't understand it must be because of QM" nonsense. Hello, decoherence anyone? Outside of carefully prepared states, large collections of particles behave classically. You know, that's why we discovered classical physics first.

  7. Re:Free will and the brain by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How would free will be explained on the quantum level? Randomness or probability doesn't account for free will, either. Free will is simply magic of the mind, a sort of god-of-the-gaps for not knowing the complex web of the interaction between heredity and environment and the many antecedent events acting upon it.

  8. In other news... by Venik · · Score: 5, Funny

    In other news: a recent study by the American Wave Mechanics Society suggests wishful thinking may explain quantum mechanics.

    1. Re:In other news... by nelsonal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Women generally think the same way men do (slightly more cautious but it's pretty moot), but after they think it they do a kabuki dance of decit to cover of their tracks. The trick with women is to learn what they actually want which is almost always very different from what they say they want (but they would lose power if they were direct).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    2. Re:In other news... by foobsr · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't think neither wave mechanics nor quantum mechanics can figure out how women think.

      It has been figured out a long time ago: obfuscated mechanics.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    3. Re:In other news... by cromar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Man are you hanging out with the wrong women.

    4. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here is what a lady friend of mine wrote to me when asked what she planned to do with her house and empty lots in this financial downturn. Here it is verbatim.

      "This is little reason to ponder resolution. What IS shall be fulfilled without prior announcement of conditions.

      Our joy is in the TRUSTING & developments from this.

      Creative measures abound without the limitations of thought.

      Live this day as a last. Each has its reason, if but to challenge our TRUST. To reason is folly, for truth has no reason, only purpose.

      Constructs of the mind de-rail any initiative with fancy. Loose the need to think. Being the mind hinders the ability to recognize the perfection."

      So basically her position is one of Trusting and Allowing for what is meant to be, and not think things to death.

      Would your lady friend happen to be google translator?

    5. Re:In other news... by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're assuming a woman that needs to fight for power. An already empowered woman thinks much like a man but with a more social perspective, with no deception because that kills social relationships. An empowered woman is really a treat to converse with and to know.

      How do you find an empowered woman? My advice would be to stop treating women like alien creatures and assuming they're always trying to deceive you.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    6. Re:In other news... by cromar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You guys are both kind of sad individuals. You should really hear yourselves. I'm sorry you have both lost touch with what it is to be human and how to interact with others :-(

    7. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your entire post leads right back to the very comment you replied to: "Man are you hanging out with the wrong women".

      You said yourself that there are exceptions and outliers to the rule. The thing is, they're far more common than you, like most men, realize. If you act the way you described, you'll be less likely to find them.

      You see, for the most part, you have to be the person you want to meet. Like-minded people do tend to find each other. If you want a straight shooter, be a straight shooter. If you play games, don't be surprised if you end up with someone who plays games as well. If you never let yourself totally go, never trust them all the way, and attempt to be dominant — you will end up with someone who never lets herself totally go, never trusts you all the way, and attempts to be dominant.

    8. Re:In other news... by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Funny

      My advice would be to stop treating women like alien creatures and assuming they're always trying to deceive you.

      That sounds like reasonable advi-- hey, wait a minute. How do we know you're not one of them?

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    9. Re:In other news... by cromar · · Score: 4, Insightful
      No defense mechanism for me... I am nothing and so I have nothing to defend. Are you sure you are not getting defensive?

      The previous posters aren't sad individuals

      It is sad to lose your humanity. There is more to life than logic and what you think you "know" based on your limited perspective of the world. Love and you will know love. Do not and you will not. It's that simple.

      they've simply ... presented our existence in terms that can be explained via the same paradigms that we explain the rest of the animal world.

      Well, the same paradigms that you use to describe the animal world, anyway... as if any of our behavioral sciences are more than (very useful) vague abstractions. There's much more to know about life than what our sciences can currently gain a perspective on.

      I am afraid I am speaking with people who have already closed their minds to the possibility that what they do not/cannot understand with logic must inherently not exist or be explainable with something besides logic.

    10. Re:In other news... by julian67 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Start with this guy.

    11. Re:In other news... by leromarinvit · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would your lady friend happen to be google translator?

      I dunno... I asked her and all she had to say was "How do you feel about your lady friend happen to be google translator?"

      --
      Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
  9. Randomness is Vital by TheLazySci-FiAuthor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This type of decision making might simply be an evolutionarily-selected random seeding.

    For example, when running an evolutionary algorithm, it is vital to have randomness seeded into the mix. This allows for the system or algorithm to escape from local maxima.

    Douglas Adams had a great quote at the end of one of his last lectures regarding humans' re-invention of everything - nothing is ever 'good enough': http://www.guba.com/watch/3000053272

    Perhaps this is all that just random, unpredictable outcomes from a horrendously complex system we call the brain, which has emerged out of a random, unpredictable and horrendously complex universe.

  10. Oh, get off it by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Informative

    The human mind is not a special and unique snowflake. You are a computer. I am a computer. You are a computer. The brain is literally a quivering mound of hacks: look at fMRI studies sometime. We operate according to the same laws of physics that govern that boiler over in the corner. Get over yourselves already.

    Look: maybe it was acceptable in the 18th century to imagine some special mechanism for the human mind, but no longer. There are simply no mental phenomena that require quantum mechanics to understand. It's far easier to suppose that we are simply flawed creatures that sometimes make bad decisions using heuristics adapted more for the African savannah than New York.

  11. "Prisoner's Dilemma" != Prison by hdon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ..fear of prison..

    The Prisoner's Dilemma is a generalized model for decision-making in a non-zero-sum game (net cooperation must yield more than net defection.) A story involving prisoner's and jail time is only the most popular canonical representation for the game. While I've nothing to say in defense of the researchers' intelligence: to levy criticism that the researchers have perhaps overlooked subjects' aversion to actual prison time is to suggest that the researchers are, perhaps, extremely stupid, and have no idea what they are doing at all.

  12. Re:You paraphrase Feynmann by blincoln · · Score: 4, Informative

    His point was that a grad student using an electron microscope will see precisely what he was trained to (expects to) see. This, of course, is derived from the basic quantum concept that the observer affects the observed.

    It sounds like you are reading more into that concept than is actually there (which is a common mistake - see the pseudoscience in What The [Bleep] Do We Know?). The effect in question isn't about conscious observers. It's about physical interactions between particles.

    An electron microscope will have an effect on the subject being imaged whether or not a grad student is looking through it. In addition, a grad student (like any other human) will certainly impart their own biases on the results - even if it's by failing to notice something in the image because they were only looking where they expected to find something, and not elsewhere. But the second isn't a quantum-mechanical effect. It's a procedural/data-processing issue.

    Apologies if I read something into your post that wasn't actually there.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman