Antarctic Ice Is Growing, Not Melting Away, At Davis Station

schwit1 writes "A report from The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research says that Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away. Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia's Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Centre shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years. The average thickness of the ice at Davis since the 1950s is 1.67m. A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded."

Comments

Temperature

[RichMan]

The antarctic is supposed to be a desert because it is too cold to snow.
The fact the central area is now accumulating snow points to warming and accompanying increased precipitation.

The ice sheets have increased their outward flow. Also another indicator of increased precipitation and warmth.

One has to be very careful what one looks at for indicators of global warming/cooling.

Re:Temperature

[highvista63]

This is exactly what I've heard should be happening, as well. Global warming would evaporate more of the ocean's water, which falls on Antarctica as snow, resulting in more ice.

Re:Temperature

[JordanL]

Davis is not in central Antarctica. Nice try though.

Re:Temperature

[im_thatoneguy]

Of course it can.

Just like I can say we're getting less percipitation but more flooding in the northwest US. If there is a huge deluge of percipitation but then a 3 month drought then that can actually cause worse flooding later.

Similarly it could rain more often but still rain less.

That's why the leading worry about Global Warming isn't that you're going to need to get 3 more days of nice sunny weather every day. It's that Global Warming will cause UNPREDICTABLE weather patterns. Such as freak deep freezes. Unexpected ice patterns etc in addition to hotter summers and draught.

Maybe a region will see its weather patterns change such that they receive tons of percipitation during the winter but none during the growing season. That's a bad change for agriculture even if the region receives "more rain".

You're building a strawman against climate change that "Scientists claim that global warming will cause global heating in every point on earth." That's not a claim of global warming. And when shipping lanes open through the north pole (where polar bears reside) I would hardly be hasty to suggest that in general ice sheets aren't shrinking simply because one small region on earth is seeing increased ice.

There's increased ice in my freezer too... does that disprove global warming? Look at the data as a whole not cherry picked exceptions to the data trends.

Re:Temperature

[Rockoon]

Let me get this straight...

The AGW camp is predicting that things will be unpredictable...

..in spite of the fact that no methodology has ever shown skill at predicting the climate before.

Here is what I have observed:

A few years ago hurricanes were all the AGW rage. They predicted more and stronger hurricanes as a result of AGW (the "more energy" arguement), but when that failed to happen they then predicted fewer and weaker hurricanes as a result of AGW (the "more energy produces windsheer" arguement.)

Then, they predicted increased melting of the polar ice due to global warming (the "warmer atmosphere" arguement), but now we find out that when that didnt happen that they now predict a decrease in melting of the polar ice (the "warmer atmosphere causes greater circulation" arguement.)

Here is the way I see it:

Whatever data comes in, there is a pro-AGW arguement waiting to support it, and that tells me quite clearly that nobody has a god damn clue what the fuck is going on, but that AGW = DOLLARS FOR CLIMATOLOGISTS.

Good data point, does not reverse slope of line

[Phat_Tony]

Great data and interesting if it proves out. But all the "global warming doesn't exist people" are going to jump on this like every bit of news about cold weather to claim it contradicts the idea that there's global warming, which it doesn't.

Global warming is not a powerful enough trend to counteract all other factors- it still get colder in fall and winter in temperate zones, and it's often colder from one day to the next. While the majority of ski resorts have reported a trend of less annual snowfall per year for the past twenty years or so, some individual years buck the trend, and some resorts (like Holiday Valley in New York) have experienced the opposite trend. It's a hugely complex system with a lot of random variation and unknown factors. While the satellite data tells us that the average temperature of the earth is increasing every year, that leaves a lot of room for variation from the mean, and some parts of the world are actually getting colder. Due to the complexities of weather, some areas may experience more snowfall when the temperature rises. So don't make this out to mean more than it is.

But it is very interesting, and could force changes to models claiming rapidly rising sea levels due to global warming.

West-Antarctica

[Yokaze]

To my knowledge, it is already known, that the ice thickens in West-Antarctica (News from 2002). Davis-Station seems to be located there.

I am interested, what new findings in West-Australia lead to Dr Allison's evaluation on the development of the whole continent of Antarctica. The posted article itself is a bit sparse on facts.

Re:Separation of Science and States

[Weedhopper]

That's not a bad point.

For the last few years, guys with the slightest connection to anything even remotely connected to the climate and weather are being called "climate scientists" or "climate change expert." Huh?

Re:Separation of Science and States

[ivan256]

s/ego/reputation/g

Let's forget the environment for a momnet...

[thetoadwarrior]

Let's pretend that human activity has no effect on the environment.

With that in mind there is still no reason not to be more green.

Pollution shortens your life: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7946838.stm
Pollutionis linked to Pneumonia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7347065.stm
Pollution affects birth weight: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7988619.stm
Pollution alters brain function: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7288176.stm

So why in the hell would anyone support polluting this planet?

Installing solar panels and using water butts and various other green things can save money so why wouldn't people want to save money?

You can't (shouldn't) drive while intoxicated so increased public transportation makes it better for me when I want to socialise with my friend with alcohol and what not. Riding on buses and trains I can sleep, read or use my laptop while going to work rather than just sitting behind the wheel stressing out. Those who insist on driving get the benefit of less traffic when more people use the train or bus So it's nothing but a benefit all around

My main concern is looking out for number one and looking out for the environment results in nothing but benefits for me as it does for most people. Ignorant people should realise this and stop focusing on just the planet. This isn't about tree huggers. This is about saving money and improving your life. So even if you have a "fuck the planet" attitude making certain change benefits yourself as well as the tree huggers.

Re:Let's forget the environment for a momnet...

[im_thatoneguy]

Yes but SS, Medicare and Unemployment are all supposed to be payed out of their own incomes. Much like a forced savings fund. I don't know that I would call those "welfare" programs in the sense you're implying.

If we're talking about "Feeding the poor" then we shouldn't include SS, Unemployment *insurance* or much of medicare.

Medicaid and foodstamps being the two big programs to look at. At that point you see your 1600 billion shrink dramatically to less than 500 billion.

You have to HAVE a line...

[Jane Q. Public]

... before you can reverse its slope. Can you point me to one? Not the lines presented in "An Inconvenient Truth", because inconveniently for Al Gore, those have already been thoroughly discredited.

So, where does your line come from? Show it to me, please. Credible data from one or more credible sources clearly showing this trend you claim.

By the way, according to your pet satellite data, the upper atmosphere has not been warming in the way predicted by any of the greenhouse-gas warming models.

Re:how bout them apples

[synthesizerpatel]

For the record, I'd like to provider a short list of things that aren't cogent political arguments:

1) Television catch phrases

2) Proper nouns

3) Noises

5) Movie titles

Re:Welp,

[bricko]

What the big stink anyway...the earth has only had ice at its poles for about 30% of its existence. It comes and goes with or without humans and has for millennium. Some are being a tad arrogant to think the human can affect such a chaotic large system.

Case in Point

[DesScorp]

That's not a bad point.

For the last few years, guys with the slightest connection to anything even remotely connected to the climate and weather are being called "climate scientists" or "climate change expert." Huh?

Case in point: David Suzuki, a Canadian zoologist who has done all his professional work in genetics. Somehow, he became a climate scientist in the press. This is also the guy that said " climate change deniers", especially ones in politics, should be jailed for their "crimes".

Re:Welp,

[Paltin]

Yeah, and us humans have only been on Earth for 0.00002% of it's existence.... species come and go, mostly without humans. So why worry?

Except, there is a problem in your logic. We can understand what has caused the coming and going of many of the global glaciations over the history of the world.

For example, the glaciation that occurred in the late Devonian is linked to the spread of plants on land. Before this time, there were no trees. They captured a large amount of atmospheric CO2, triggering global cooling and glaciation. The result was one of the "big 5" mass extinctions on the planet, with about 50% loss at the genera level.

Guess what? Humans have spread all across the planet! Guess what? It's not arrogant to collect data that shows we are actively changing the system and try to make predictions based on it.

I'm not advocating any certain policy; but I am saying it is foolish to assume that we can't change the world, and that we can't understand complex systems.

Different Gandhi

[mangu]

I love Gandhi

Are you aware that Indira Gandhi is not the same person one usually refers to as simply "Gandhi"?

But I must say I agree with the rest of your comment, the US is the biggest polluter and owes the rest of the world some respect. We all share the same planet.

And going back to the article, this shows the typical tactics of people who don't want to do their part in fighting global warming. They try to imply that the enormous amount of evidence that has been collected demonstrating the anthropogenic influence in global warming is just a bunch of isolated data. Yet they want to use one single measurement as evidence that there really isn't something like a sudden raise in temperatures over the last few hundred years that's more abrupt than anything ever seen on earth.