Rep. Jane Harman Focus In Yet Another Warrantless Wiretap Scandal

Many different sources are talking about the latest scandal surrounding the warrantless wiretapping program. Incriminating evidence against California rep. Jane Harman was apparently captured some time ago on a legal NSA wiretap. However, Attorney General Gonzales supposedly intervened to drop the case against her because (and this is where the irony meter explodes) Bush officials wanted her to be able to publicly defend the warrantless wiretap program. "Jane Harman, in the wake of the NSA scandal, became probably the most crucial defender of the Bush warrantless eavesdropping program, using her status as 'the ranking Democratic on the House intelligence committee' to repeatedly praise the NSA program as 'essential to US national security' and 'both necessary and legal.'"

Comments

Treason

[Dan667]

Rep. Harman should be investigated for treason. AIPAC should be investigated for treason.

Re:Treason

[Darundal]

So should those who knowingly let them get away with it.

Re:Treason

[bobdehnhardt]

You're spot on target. This wasn't treason, it was standard political quid pro quo. Admittedly, it's sometimes hard to tell the two apart....

Dems may call it treason because she turned her back on the party line. But that's personal. IANAL, but to me, this looks like obstruction, maybe tampering with evidence. Not treason.

Re:Treason

[jollyreaper]

You're spot on target. This wasn't treason, it was standard political quid pro quo. Admittedly, it's sometimes hard to tell the two apart....

Dems may call it treason because she turned her back on the party line. But that's personal. IANAL, but to me, this looks like obstruction, maybe tampering with evidence. Not treason.

Are you sure about that? Doing AIPAC's bidding directly puts the US in conflict with the people we get a large portion of our oil from. There's nothing in the Constitution that says the US is supposed to be the welfare provider for the entire world. I find it curious that we'll have conservatives who rail against welfare to American citizens but are more than happy to send the money overseas. I know that this is a liberal who just got caught here but the liberal platform isn't anti-welfare which is what makes the conservative stance hypocritical. What part of giving handouts to Israel serves America's interests? This does nothing to enhance America's security. If we are talking about humanitarian concerns, giving no-strings-attached aid to Israel just makes it more certain the Palestinians will take it in the shorts.

This scandal is going to get the neo-nazis out in droves hooting and hollering about the evil joo's controlling the gubmint. Ignore them. I'm pissed about AIPAC but I'd be just as pissed if we had the Irish PAC leading the government around by the nose and demanding concessions to Ireland and asking us to take sides in the Troubles.

Re:Treason

[deKernel]

I find it curious that we'll have conservatives who rail against welfare to American citizens but are more than happy to send the money overseas.

I am sorry, but I really take offense to this comment. I am a conservative and all of my family and friends are conservative, and none of us are against welfare. We all believe that safety nets are needed because sometimes bad things do happen to people. If I had to guess, you are taking a few quotes from some fringe conservatives and sweeping the rest under the same brush.

What we don't like is the current welfare system that does not encourage people to get off the welfare system. The current system is broken and broken badly.

Re:Treason

[Ardeaem]

Seriously, many of the things the public blamed Bush for are the actions of Congress

Sorry, but most of the things Bush is blamed for Bush started and Congress later enabled. For instance, consider warrantless wiretapping, which the major issue Bush wanted Harman to help with. Bush was breaking the FISA law for years, when the news broke, Congress first did nothing, and then passed a law retroactively making it 1) legal and 2) impossible to prosecute.

Also, consider the Iraq war. Bush used manufactured intelligence to justify the war, but Congress did nothing; they even cheerleaded for it.

All this is not to say that Congress has no culpability, because they do. But Congress was Republican for most of the Bush years. To say, in the context of this conversation that many of the things blamed on Bush should be blamed on Democrats, who have only been in power for two years? That's way off. You are the one with the obvious agenda.

That said, none of them deserve to keep their jobs. I can't believe people still identify with Republicans or Democrats these days.

THIS is the problem

[amiga3D]

This is why the warrantless wiretap program should be done away with. When you operate in secret the things found will be used to blackmail. Instead of being used to further the goals of justice it's used to further the goals of those in power.

"Irony" is so overused

[RobertB-DC]

The "irony-makes-head-asplode dept." is funny, but inaccurate.

Irony is when something is the opposite of what you would expect.

Hypocrisy, lies, and hardball intimidation tactics are *exactly* what we would expect from proponents of warrantless wiretapping.

This situation contains no irony. Just corruption. We might say, though, that "Ironically, the new administration was elected in hopes of restoring honor to the Justice Department."

Re:"Irony" is so overused

[berbo]

Actually, according to the Greenwald column, the Harman/AIPAC wiretap wasn't illegal - it was a court-approved wiretap on a foreigner.

This makes it even more ironic - the Bush administration declined to prosecute what was likely a serious crime, based on a legal wiretap - so that they could more effectively pursue illegal wiretaps.

Re:A Setback for Israeli-Palestinian Peace Efforts

[Captain Splendid]

it's rather shocking that AIPAC has enough pull in congress to be able to hold out committee chairmanships as bribes.

Only to those of you recently clued in on Israel's stranglehold over US politics.

Re:A Setback for Israeli-Palestinian Peace Efforts

[JoshuaZ]

Well, she didn't get the chairmanship. See http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/04/must_read_5.php But yes, this doesn't look good at all. It looks from the circumstances like Bush and Gonzales more or less bought her support by promising not to prosecute. It really says something about how appalling Gonzalez was that he not only made Ashcroft look sane but now even out of office he is continuing to make Ashcroft look better just by comparison.

Re:A Setback for Israeli-Palestinian Peace Efforts

[tsotha]

They didn't "hold out" seats as bribes. They just offered to lobby Pelosi to give her the seat. With her experience she might have gotten it anyway - she was probably best qualified.

She can't very well hope to explain the entire conversation away, though. Any time you end a phone call with "this conversation never happened" it's hard to play innocent after the fact.

Not warrantless.

[wiredog]

DoJ had a warrant, apparently it was part of the AIPAC investigation.

No, the fishy part is that the Bush admin apparently blackmailed her into supporting the warrantless program.

Also, you have the Executive branch doing that ot a member of the Legislative.

This could get really interesting...

Re:beat me to it

[Compholio]

Thank you. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing people drop the 'T' word without any idea of what it actually means. It's this kind of stupidity that makes me think the Framers were correct to define Treason within the Constitution so it couldn't be used for political purposes.....

Maybe some people consider those that threaten our liberties to be our enemies... Seems reasonable to me.

Re:Jane Harman (D - CA)

[phantomfive]

How hard is it to put the D after her name?

Why would you want to do that? You'll just perpetuate the myth that it actually matters.

corruption and blackmail, not irony

[speedtux]

The reason we don't want to have warrantless wiretapping is not for people like you and me; it's for this: if the government can listen in on the opposition, it can blackmail them to fall in line politically. So, this case isn't "ironic", it's what you expect to happen when warrantless wiretaps are tolerated, and it's a really bad sign.

Re:Couldn't prosecute.

[dyfet]

Basically it is potentially a government sanctioned blackmail scenario. A kind of quid-pro-quo, "you support our legislation and we will not release what we know about you"...please explain how it is not illegal?

Re:Jane Harman (D - CA)

[grassy_knoll]

Yes, the press makes party affiliation very clear... perhaps in a way they don't mean to.

When an (R) does something wrong as you note you cant(R) see(R) their(R) name(R) in(R) print(R) without(R) that(R) (R) right after their name.

On the other hand, when a politician has done something wrong and no party affiliation is mentioned they're a (D), never an (R) or an (I).

They are not allies in reality

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when has false flag specialist Israel really been the US ally, as opposed to treating the US as her bitch, because of traitors like this cretin in the article and other traitors in big business, big media, and big finance and big government? They sure as hell ARE traitors. Just because they claim they aren't doesn't make it so once you look at the real data.

    Why the hell should we be supporting a racist apartheid nation? I never supported racist south africa, and nor do I support Israel, they have been a plague and have put the world at peril for nuclear confrontation for decades now, all so that some European settlers can claim land that isn't theirs. If they had a beef with Germany over their particular holocaust, which is just ONE OF MANY that happened during the war, why the hell didn't we demand Germany give up some territory for some new zionist nation? The Germans are the biggest hypocrites out there now about this. Their old biblical claim to "greater zion" is pure hogwash, freaking fantasy land and I can't believe anyone on this forum falls for it.

  Here's just a few references to get you started on some sorely neglected education that you need about those false "allies" who are really the biggest threat to the security of the US, USS Liberty attack-this is called levying war, get it? and don't believe the official dual nation coverup story, listen to the actual survivors and dudes who lived through it. And go ahead and google "9-11, dancing Israelis"-for more levying war, and "khazars" for a little more in depth historical background of what lying toads they are. Shrewd yes, technologically capable, yes, smart yes, but also lying sneaky deceitful skunks and jerks.

People who put the interests of some other nation over their own ARE traitors, fullstop. If they claim to be US citizens but work for another nation-traitors. That includes Israel-firsters, including those loony brainwashed flat earth snake handling Xians who are dreaming of Armageddon and some huge conflagration to bring about the Rapture, and just the normal economic traitors, then those jerk off big businessmen who are China-firsters, and so on.

Traitors. You can't have it both ways, either loyal to your own nation first, or you are a traitor and a liar and a hypocrite.

Israel, history of false flag operations

Re:Couldn't prosecute.

[Savantissimo]

The argument is that while the wiretap may have been legal, using it to subvert the independence of Congress was not - they can prosecute or not, but they can't legally blackmail. This argument calls into question all sorts of things prosecutors do every day, but there is additional reason for questioning the methods in this case since they either effect the control of a Congresswoman by the Executive or allow her control by a foreign power or both.