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Germany Institutes Censorship Infrastructure

An anonymous reader writes "Germany's government has passed a draft law for censorship of domains hosting content related to child pornography. A secret list of IPs will be created by the BKA, Germany's federal police; any attempted access to addresses on this list is blocked, logged (the draft seems to contradict press reports on this point) and redirected to a government page featuring a large stop sign. The law has not yet passed the assembly, however five of the largest ISPs have already agreed to voluntarily submit to the process even without a law in place. Critics argue that with the censorship infrastructure in place, the barrier for blocking access for various other reasons is very low. The fact that the current block can easily be circumvented may lead to more effective technologies to be used in the future. There are general elections as well as elections in several of the states later this year."

23 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. Inc. China by Manip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Step 1) Child Porn
    2) Other "Offensive" Material (e.g. Nazi Material)
    3) ???
    4) Welcome to the great firewall

    1. Re:Inc. China by jorgis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't believe that this necessary will lead to censorship of other "offensive" or politically incorrect material. Here in Norway, we've had a similar filter[1] in place for a few years now, and it hasn't been extended in any degree to include anything other than what has been deemed as child porn. It's efficiency in combating the distribution of child porn can be questioned, but I don't think you'll ever find it being used for other purposes. [1] http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Norwegian_secret_internet_censorship_blacklist%2C_3518_domains%2C_18_Mar_2009

    2. Re:Inc. China by Manip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other countries it has led to exactly that.

    3. Re:Inc. China by spankyofoz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But look at what ended up on our blacklist here in Australia (it's also on wikileaks). It too was set up to counter the scourge of child porn.

      But we ended up with blocked sites containing
      euthanasia
      abortion
      malware
      online gambling

      It's not much of a stretch to see other politically sensitive topics being blocked.

      --

      - There is no point, it's like a sphere -
    4. Re:Inc. China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it hasn't been extended in any degree to include anything other than what has been deemed as child porn.

      It's impossible to know that.

    5. Re:Inc. China by tommyhj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Problem is that the list is SECRET, and the selecting of offensive sites isn't up for discussion. You have no way of controlling the censorship.

    6. Re:Inc. China by squoozer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Norway must have a very tame Government then because here in the UK the IWF (a quasi governmental body answerable to just about nobody) has been making a serious grab for power over the last year. It started off with hidden lists of child porn sites and now is spreading / has spread to include "terrorist" material and "violent" pornography and they want to block more material.

      Of course because the list is completely secret and it's not strictly a government body there is no accountability, they are free to do pretty much anything they want. My problem with this situation is not that they want to block access to some material it's the way the system is set up. It's so ripe for abuse it's untrue.

      For a start the list should be open for review along with the reason for the block and a review period. There should also be an appeals process against a block which can come from either the site owner or a user (can't see this getting used all that often but it should be available).

      Also, since it is essentially a Government body it should be accountable like a Government body not hiding behind some "we're a business / charity / trust and therefore not accountable" wall.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    7. Re:Inc. China by Cally · · Score: 4, Funny

      China has a police force. My country has a police force. ZOMG!!!! fascist communistic dictatorship prepares to seize power and enslave us in their siberian lard mines!!!

      And anyway, when climate change kicks in and the world descends into every-nation-for-itself anarchy, we're gonna need some form of authoritarian state power to enforce conscription into the armies needed to fight off the starving hordes massing on various national borders.

      --
      "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
  2. RickRoll Germany by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So the time has come to Rick Roll the entire population of Germany, but with links to banned IP's?
    If every breach is logged a huge percentage of Germans will be found out as perverts.

    --
    She made the willows dance
    1. Re:RickRoll Germany by EdIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      huge percentage of Germans will be found out as perverts.

      huge percentage of German will be confirmed to be perverts.

      There fixed it for you.

      I'm not trolling here either :) German porn is legendary . Can make you hard and sick at the same time :)

    2. Re:RickRoll Germany by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Funny

      it is also known for great dialogues:

      - So that's the power box that we've been having problems with, if you could take a look...
      - Sure, but why is this straw lying around here?"
      - Hm, and why are you wearing a mask?
      - Hmmm... well, give me a blowjob then.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    3. Re:RickRoll Germany by meist3r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We don't need the BKA to put that on the list. The classic RickRoll Youtube vid was already blocked when the GEMA (the german IFPI equivalent) couldn't get their greedy mouths full and demanded horrendous sums of money for their "protected works" to be displayed to German viewers. There are of course dozens of clones and copies still up which aren't registered but the classig "Rick Astley - Never gonna give you up" video only shows a "This video is not available in your country" ... way to go cutting us off from the internet culture greedy rights holder bastards.

  3. Re:/facepalm by rolfwind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whats with all the governments jumping on the censorship bandwagon? I for one do not welcome our new censoring overlords

    Governments always want to subdue and control. They see lack of control as the problem. Citing childporn/hatespeech/_______ is but a means to an end.

  4. Don't worry by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It will only be used to block sites with child porn

    and terrorism sites

    and sites with info on building bombs

    and "pro-ana" sites

    and bestiality sites

    and sites critical of the government

    and copyright violating sites

    and sites with violent images

    and sites with malware

    and porn sites

    and sites with content that is considered to be offensive by some

    and ...
    ok, maybe you should worry

    1. Re:Don't worry by oneirophrenos · · Score: 3, Informative

      Pro-ana = pro-anorexia

    2. Re:Don't worry by rolfwind · · Score: 3, Interesting

      and sites critical of the government

      Germany's "Meinungsfreiheit":
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Germany

      Under criminal code, some things you can't say:
      "Disparagement of
              * the Federal President (Section 90).
              * the State and its Symbols (Section 90a).
      Insult to Organs and Representatives of Foreign States (Section 103).
      Rewarding and Approving Crimes (Section 140). ...
      Dissemination of Pornographic Writings (Section 184)."

      There are others, but Gerhard Shroder, former Chancellor, actually got a court order banning the media from mentioning his hair:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schr%C3%B6der#Freedom_of_the_press

      Oh, and if you curse at a bureaucrat, those worthless sacks of shit of which there are way too many, that's "Beamten Beleidigung" and you can get fined 5000 Euro on their word. Germany has Freedom of Speech like Iran has freedom of religion. Some people will undoubtedly point to it's recent past for legitimacy of some of the rules, but I maintain it's from people worshipping the concept of the state and having a strong central government.

  5. Re:STOP (Your IP has just been logged) by dafdaf · · Score: 4, Informative

    Which is plain wrong. - As the current law even states that of course the IP will be logged ! (The initial proposition of ~1 week ago didn't include that. They quickly 'fixed' that one. ;-)

    --
    To error is human, to forgive, beyond the scope of the OS.
  6. Miserable failure in Finland by grimJester · · Score: 5, Informative

    Assuming the site still exists, here's a site explaining what's wrong with the finnish version of this list. I can't check the link for reasons that should be obvious.

    Short list of problems:
    - 98+% false positives, including the top 7 or 8 google hits for "gay porn"
    - Majority of sites are in the EU or US, yet the sites are still up
    - The law only allows non-finnish sites to be on that list, yet a finnish site critical of the list is blocked.

    1. Re:Miserable failure in Finland by grimJester · · Score: 3, Informative

      Obviously I screwed up the link :(

  7. massive criticism by Tom · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is massive criticism against this within Germany.

    Pretty much everyone who knows anything is against it, this includes both the people who know something about the technical details (i.e. IT people) as well as those who know something about child pornography, and even people who were abused as kids.

    The summary of the criticism is:

    • This will do nothing to stop child porn
    • It is extremely easy to avoid (it's just a DNS block, use a different DNS and you're good)
    • They block site instead of prosecuting them, including sites that are known to be in Germany
    • It's just a cheap show in election year
    • Sites linking to blocked sites will be blocked as well, which means sites like wikileaks. Since the blocklist is secret, you'll never know when you just put yourself on the list.
    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  8. Sweden has it by isecore · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sweden already has this policy. It's a blocklist implemented in the DNS structure of Swedish ISP's. Thus it's easily avoided by anyone with even basic computer skills.

    Officially it's to block kiddie porn, but there's no public examination of what sites are on the list. Also, it's been demonstrated several times that there's a lot of rather odd choices when it comes to blocking - i.e. a korean site about Bonsai trees is on the list.

    There's been quite a lot of controversy surrounding this list, and it's been accused of being the start of a slippery slide towards censorship.

    Also, it's essentially useless since it's easily avoided.

    --
    I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.
  9. What is it they say about systems and entropy? by msimm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Systems (political systems), because they're created by man are inherently corruptible (thanks to that man is not perfect dictum). Which is why in the US for instance the old conservatives used to argue for small government, and the founders tried to limit the federal government.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  10. Re:Hiccup in logic. by MrMista_B · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has as much to do with child porn as WMD's had to do with the American invasion of Iraq.

    I'd say that's a pretty damn accurate way to put it.