Military Enlists Open Source Community

jmwci1 writes "The US Defense Department is enlisting an open source approach to software development — an about-face for such a historically top-down organization. In recent weeks, the military has launched a collaborative platform called Forge.mil for its developers to share software, systems components and network services. The agency also signed an agreement with the Open Source Software Institute to allow 50 internally developed workforce management applications to be licensed to other government agencies, universities and companies."

Comments

I Dunno

[MightyMartian]

This could end badly. Here's all these geeks working hard at coding, only to be interrupted by one of their own doing a mock-Python "Stop the skit! This is much too silly." and then everyone doing the "military fairy" song.

The Pentagon may not survive.

How dare they?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Bloody open-sores communists. Don't they know that military contractors have a god given right to profit?

Re:How dare they?

[RingDev]

No Joke. In 2001 the US Marine Corps disbanded the 4067 MOS. While we used to have Marines, in uniform, writing code for a wide assortment of tasks (from menial office apps to classified COM vaults and even some flight system work in ADA), we moved to consultants.

Replacing a $14,400/year Corporal with a $120,000 civilian. One who doesn't have to take an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

-Rick

Re:How dare they?

[Dielectric]

What does mil-spec code look like? Do you have to put //SIR! after every semicolon?

Re:How dare they?

[finity]

I get the impression that you think this is an awful shame. Do you think we need programmers that take an oath to support and defend the Constitution? Do you think programmers need to maintain the high standards of fitness required by the Marines? I guarantee you that wearing a uniform makes it harder to code (it's much easier in flip flops and shorts).

It's unlikely that those civilians are actually paid $120k, but you're right that they make more than $14k. I think that (in many cases) it's an awful shame to have folks working in an office who are willing and able to run out into a field in the middle of nowhere and setup comms.

Militaries are built to go out and accomplish a mission. Pay somebody else to stay home and accomplish it.

Re:How dare they?

[EbeneezerSquid]

Yes, but because the $120,000 civilian is paid out of a different pot of money than the $14,000 corporal, The US Government is actually SAVING Money!

Don't you love how Washington thinks?

Re:How dare they?

[EbeneezerSquid]

True, The Civilian is probably not making $120,000.

However, the Defense Contractor that hired him for $80,000 is getting $120,000 for doing so (and providing his health insurance and, well, that's about it.)

Do Programmers HAVE to sign and swear in order to program? no.

However, considering the quality of some of the software that the military has to use, it would be VERY useful to have trained programmers rotating into and out of positions where they are using it in the field, and than updating and maintaining the software. We are presently forced to maintain a piece of Search and Rescue software for tracking downed (civilian) pilots that, if every piece of network infrastructure works perfectly, manages to stay stable and usable less than 90% of the time. In an industry where four 9s is considered standard, a piece of lifesaving software with only one is unacceptable - and they can't even open bidding for it's replacement for another year.

And as a Air Force Network Administrator who continually has to struggle to pass his Physical Readiness Test, I have no pity about your preference for coding in your shorts and flip-flops

Re:How dare they?

[Ocker3]

I disagree. Having coders who have an afinity with and an understanding of the actual roles and duties of the people they're coding for can be very useful. And as to being oath-taking Marines, they are arguably quite motivated to make sure that no details are leaked and that systems are secure, as opposed to the vulnerable contractor systems that leaked that JSF data recently.

Re:How dare they?

[mrjohnson]

It is a damn shame. I was on the other side of the fence and I can tell you, it's a lot harder to get something done when you've got to ask/beg a civilian to do something for you. He doesn't care what the 1stSgt told you to do, he's not in the chain of command.

Or even worse, the civilian in charge of our local network was a high ranking civilian. He actually had more on-base clout than our regiment's CO. It took *months* to get network jacks opened, forget about adding new devices. Buying an fscking printer took four months to install (network jacks are restricted by mac address). Of course, I got around this, but that's not the point. :-)

On the other hand, if it was handled by the Marines you more than likely can call and get a brother on the phone who'll help you out.

Re:How dare they?

[RingDev]

Do you think we need programmers that take an oath to support and defend the Constitution?

Next time someone runs into a critical fault in a COM shack in the south Pacific, see what the response time is getting a civilian in Virginia out of bed, into the office, and working on the problem as opposed to having a trained and proficient Marine on site to fix the issue.

Do you think programmers need to maintain the high standards of fitness required by the Marines? I guarantee you that wearing a uniform makes it harder to code (it's much easier in flip flops and shorts).

There are benefits and detractors. On the benefit side, coding standards are non-optional. There is room for variety, but if there is one thing you get used to in the Marine Corps, it is standards. Also, as a coder in the MC you get to know your co-workers exceptionally well. Not only do you work on the same projects, but in the event of attack, every Marine is a riffleman first, so you may well be laying supression fire for eachother. And finally, with 1-3 year tours, you are garunteed to have to go through project handoffs, so project plans are kept small, requirements are documented, and life, as far as programming is concerned, is damn good.

Also, while you might find the rigorous PT off putting, man was it nice to be in great shape. A 3 mile jog in 20 minutes flat, 26 pull ups and 100 crunches in 2 mintues... man do I miss those days. I'm growing a damn dunlap here! Luckily, I'm moving to a new office building on Friday and I'll have an on-site Gym again :)

On the down side, the Enlisted Marine Corps is largely consisting of people who either couldn't or didn't want to go to college. So you are quite often surrounded by people with little experience and/or education. To get into the 4067 field you needed a GT score of 110 or higher. People who made it into the 4067 field who had troubles coding were often refered to as "110ers".

It sure wasn't peaches and cream, but it was a pretty kick ass experience for a guy like me who had no dreams of college.

It's unlikely that those civilians are actually paid $120k, but you're right that they make more than $14k.

Correct. They are contractors, their BILL rate was $120,000/year.

I think that (in many cases) it's an awful shame to have folks working in an office who are willing and able to run out into a field in the middle of nowhere and setup comms.

Ahh, you're thinking of the 4066 and IIRC 0366 MOSes. 4066 is network tech, and the 0366 is what we called the "Battery Opperated Grunt". They were deployed with the grunts to do field wire works, field radio maintenance, etc. If you're in a pitched battle, and the radio is crapping out on you, these would be the guys you hope to have in your fire team.

The 4066 MOS I believe was stripped down to bare minimums and changed into the 25xx or 26xx MOS, that was right when I was getting out though, so I can't say for sure. But I believe they were replacing all billets except for a handful of key and politicol positions. The 0366 MOS I believe is still intact, at least it was when I got out. Seems most civilians don't like taking jobs where they get shot at. Go figure.

-Rick

Re:How dare they?

[RingDev]

I knew one person I considered evil while I was in the Marine Corps.

He got the big chicken dinner.

Turns out, he's from my home town and I've managed to bump into him entirely too many times over the last 8 years.

I knew a fair number of dicks, epen flexers, power trippers, hazers, and douche bags. But every one of them was absolutely dedicated to country and corps and would put it all on the line for a Marine in trouble.

-Rick

Re:How dare they?

[CarpetShark]

What does mil-spec code look like?

Since ADA was the language created for military code, mil-spec code looks a lot like an ADA program. Design by contract, for one thing.

Re:How dare they?

[Eil]

Replacing a $14,400/year Corporal with a $120,000 civilian. One who doesn't have to take an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

On one Air Force base that I was stationed, it was very common for a company (usually Lockheed Martin) to "convince" the military that a certain position would be better served by a civilian contractor. It was just mere coincidence that the military person currently occupying that job just happened to be within early retirement age and that, even more coincidentally, he would be the one hired by the contractor to fill the civilian position after the military position was closed.

Eventually, entire portions of the base were run by civilians (civil engineering, the supply chain, avionics shops, test equipment maintenance, and vehicle management and maintenance are only a few that I recall off the top of my head) and the only military members that were left were those that legally couldn't be replaced by a contractor because they would be needed if the unit were to deploy anywhere.

I don't think most Slashdotters realize how big/powerful/corrupt the entire defense contracting industry really is.

Re:How dare they?

[Frosty Piss]

Since ADA was the language created for military code, mil-spec code looks a lot like an ADA program. Design by contract, for one thing.

GDSS-2 is written in VB6.

Repost anyone?

[saleenS281]

This story is almost as cool as it was when it was posted 2 months ago!

New Mascot

[DigiShaman]

Why is it that every time I hear about the Military and Open Source, I have visions of Tux wearing a green helmet, holding an M16, and baring a grin with a fat cigar?

Re:New Mascot

[nathan.fulton]

Because there is a widely proliferated (heh-heh) image that is more or less exactly what you describe. It was popular as a background on the "security" distributions. It's interesting that now I can't seem to find it.

In other news, there is also this -- which I have also seen many times.

Re:Why does this story have a red header?

[moniker127]

Its red because its a new post, with no comments.
It WAS that is.

Until you de-redified it.

Military Eggheads did not think put the domain up.

[brasselv]

Project "forge.mil" is only to be found at the url http://www.disa.mil/forge/

The address forge.mil is unavailable as of now.

Either does not exist, or has been taken over by the Chinese/Russians, or it has been slashdotted, or it runs on Windows.

Any of the above, is not a good sign.

Re:Military Eggheads did not think put the domain

[nathan.fulton]

Either does not exist, or has been taken over by the Chinese/Russians, or it has been slashdotted, or it runs on Windows.

It's all of the above. However, this is not a bad thing. Here's why:

1) the Russians and Chinese may have access to secrets vital to our national security, but we don't really need to worry because the Russians and Chinese are really only interested in supplementing their GDP with income from US military super-computer bot nets... this is a much more valuable industry than espionage.
2)Since its been slash dotted, we don't need to worry about the Russians and Chinese making money off of our hard-earned fat pipes.
3) Windows means that, when the paper work clears and the generals have OK'd something that they don't quite understand (this will happen in 10-15 years), we can simply email the Russian spy controlling the machine a .exe "pr0nz video!" and get control of our machine back -- thus declaring a victory in the war on Cyber-Terrorism (no, that doesn't mean you get your rights back.)

Kids

[Anonymous Coward]

an about-face for such a historically top-down organization

See the guy in the photo using BRL-CAD to optimize the M1 Abrams battle tank for crushing innocent Iraqi children? He wrote ping, contributed to BIND and other stuff. Go read some RFCs, early ones in particular, and note the number of .mil domains credited and try to imagine how many millions of lines of code made it from those reference implementations into BSD.

The DOD, particularly through DARPA, has been giving away code longer than most of you have been alive. Please, for the love of fuck, stow your naive preconceptions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Re:Kids

[db32]

You! With the clue! You are to report for immediate groupthink reprogramming!

This goes WAY beyond source code. DoD and DARPA have been giving away technology of all varieties for ages. Radar, guidance systems, tons of computing and communications tech, medical technology. Bitch about the military all ya want...but be honest...stop using everything the military has played key role in building. For starters no computers, no internet, no weather reports, no flying, and certainly no trauma treatment in an ER anywhere...

Re:Kids

[martin-boundary]

Huh? Are you trying to claim that the military give out source code and ideas for some altruistic or moral reasons?

Think again: works prepared by employees of the U.S. government are uncopyrightable. And that's how it should be. You don't want to give billions of taxpayer money to a military organization and have nothing to show for it.

Even if they wanted to, the military would have to open source their code and published documents, unless they can figure out a sneaky way to bypass the letter of the law, which happens way too much anyway.

It might work

[AnalPerfume]

sudo apt-get remove democratically-elected-but-troublesome-foreign-government
sudo apt-get install us-friendly-dictator
sudo apt-get autoremove reporters-who-ask-the-wrong-questions

Re:It might work

[JackieBrown]

sudo apt-get autoremove takes no arguments.

Wish this was there 3 years ago

[vivin]

I wish they had this three years ago. I worked on the ULLS-G system, which is a software system for unit-level logistics. It was written in ADA and ran in DOS. It was a horribly non-intuitive system. Trying to do anything with it took ages. There wasn't any sort of batch feature to batch up commands or reports.

The software used the SAGE database format and I was able to find an ODBC driver for it. Using that, I was able to write Perl scripts that could read and write to the database and do things a whole lot faster. I mean, things that took 2 hours to do (manually), took less than a second now. I was also able to tie things into Excel for extremely accurate and fast reporting. Something that none of the units there were able to do.

I was actually supposed to do any of this, because only authorized personnel are allowed to modify the software (reason being they didn't want anyone to mess things up). However, my commander and the BMO (Battalion Maintenance Officer) kinda let me do what I wanted to do because I was providing results.

Now they have a new system in place that's a whole lot better. Something with an Oracle backend. Not sure what the front-end is actually built on. Looks like access, but might not be it.

Anytay, at the time I really wanted to provide the scripts and software that I had written to other people in the military - either people who had my MOS or at the very least, the developers, so that they could improve the software.

I haven't had that much of an opportunity to work with the new software. Also, I'm getting done with my contract in December (end to 9 years of service). But I think there are a bunch of nerds and geeks like me hiding out in the military and I'm sure they have some pretty good suggestions to improve the software that the military uses.

Bug #222896: App terminates with big explosion

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't supposed to happen until our personel have reached safe distance.

Bogus: This issue was fixed in SVN 2 months ago.

Navy has done this for years.

[jd]

Way back when, I would access the Naval Research Lab's websites for copies of OPIE (a one-time password suite), their IPSec code, their IPv6 code and their IPv4/IPv6 multiprotocol suite.

These days, they have some nice stuff in the areas of multicasting, wireless routing and network testing tools.

Even the DoD's Office of Information Security Research has done Open Source work before, publishing one of the early IPSec implementations publicly through MIT.

So other than the DoD finally putting onto a more official level a practice that has been commonplace for decades (the sharing of source under true open source licenses), what exactly is new here? That the politicians at the top of the food chain figured something out? That's just a freak event, a result of the statistical nature of quantum mechanics.

Forge Mill

[moniker127]

They've got the start of a dark ages town there in the url.

Anyway- i'd say its a good idea. I don't think they'd use it for anything mission critical, like jet fighter software. Only windows 98 cuts the cake for that kind of high tech business.

Its a step forward, and its free, so why not?

i knew it

[FudRucker]

the Terminator runs on Linux!