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No Russian Operating System, At Least For Now

Posted by timothy on from the nichyego-for-now dept.

Elektroschock writes "The project by 27 Russian parties to develop a National Operating System for Russia has not taken off, yet (Russian). Ilya Ponomarev, the responsible technology committee chair in the Duma, received a negative response from the government. The government argues that the project and Open Standards would not impact the society and economy. Parliament members regret the setback for Russia's digital independence. Ponomarev wants to find other interested partners in the Government now." The Google translation makes it tough to tell whether this project is actually dead, or just shelved for the moment. Any Russian speakers out there who can parse it with greater clarity?

22 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Not I by SpeedyDX · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would, but then I would have to kill you, comrade. Our national secrets are safe from your translations of the Google.

    1. Re:Not I by dimko · · Score: 2, Informative

      No its not. And i am not your comrade ;p THIS IS MY "NOT VERY GOOD" TRANSLATION BELOW: Letter of member of Duma(russian parliament), Ilya Ponamorev, addressed to President Medvedev regarding of creation of "national programming platform" was readdressed to ministry of communication. Widely discussed initiative, strengthened by 27 representatives of different 19 organizations didn't seem to find any support in parliament. In return letter to member of Duma from "profile ministry", there is interest in supporting of localized(in this case it may also mean national, russian) free(i guess, as in freedom of speech) applications, however, there is strong criticism towards "national programming platform" offered by Ponamarjov. From there I translate it freely, since authors of this article, even though speak Russian natively, don't speak it well, as such its even more difficult to me to translate it back to english... Authors of letter that is being replied, confirm that support of Open Software is strategically important. Their main argument against - is that solution offered is not going to solve problems of russian IT sector. Creation of opened standards, tools and operative systems wont return economy any benefits. It is also mentioned, that project is risky, possibly opened to corruption and expensive. They also are affraid that in case if project takes off and becomes successful - that may separate russian IT industry from the rest of the world. In ministry of communication they propose to follow models of development of open software. They also offer to "harmonize" russian it laws with international laws. They also propose creation of plan aimed at better interoperability of Informational Systems, small projects of migration of russian government organizations to Open Software, creation of repository of such Open Software, lawful resistance to monopoly on market of Informational Telecommunicational Technology.(my bold guess, since it uses abbriviation) Ilja Ponamarjov did not receive letter just yet, but already commented to text which is available to CNews. "All proposals of Ministry of communication exist in proposal, but rather oppose it"(note by translator: obvious communicational issue). "I can only agree creation of repository of national opened software, if it actually will exist."(jesus christ, at least someone speaks russian there) "At the moment such repository doesn't exist". Member of Parliament is sure that Ministry of Communication is not interested in investment activity in sector of Informational Telecommunication Technologies, but rather wants to stimulate it's development in frames of liberal theory.(my god, who came up with that way of explaining things?). "All big sucessfull highly technological projects happened while being directly affected by goverment. Internet, Unix - all are side effects of government projects. Acting with methods of market stimulation won't do, such development of events requires existing market, which we dont have. I am glad that Ministry has realized necessity of law initiatives and await representatives of Ministry of Telecommunication in our comity for discussing of our proposals. If Ministry of Telecommunications is not interested - we have all possibilities for partnership with other Ministries"

  2. In Soviet Russia by abigsmurf · · Score: 4, Funny

    The system operates you!

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is it written in CCCP?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
  3. "Russian Windows will not be" by Laxori666 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article title is: "Russian Windows will not exist." So probably not. One of the quotes says how he would like a repository of open-source stuff for the benefit of society, but now, such a repository will not exist. So it seems dead.

  4. Re:fp by Smivs · · Score: 4, Funny

    You must be new here!

    --
    Smivs on the intertubes!
  5. Riiight.... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The government argues that the project and Open Standards would not impact the society and economy.

    No NSA backdoors, a patriotic/nationalistic project, no licence fees (or less piracy, at least), software that wasn't originally created in America...

    Yep, absolutely no impact on society or the economy.

    1. Re:Riiight.... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it is hilarious because you are in more danger from the poor guy trying to keep all that cruft from falling down than you ever were by the NSA. I was one of those that downloaded the source code for my beloved Win2K back in the day when it hit the net. While it was surprisingly well written and clean code every so often you would come along this -#HACK-We aren't really sure WHAT this does, but when you remove all versions of Office from 3.0-97 scream and have a nasty habit of screwing up data-Don"t Touch#

      And just from the source code that hit the net there were quite a few spots just like that. Some piece of cruft that nobody had a clue what did anymore, but which seriously screwed things up when removed. Which sadly makes sense if you think about it. WinNT was released in 1993. Think about that for a second. Think about how different the specs were on machines back then and then realize how many coders have been through the revolving door of OS development at MSFT. Each one adding their own code and trying to figure out just what in the hell the guy that came before them was thinking. The fact that the WMF bug affected everything from Win3.1-XP(Vista wasn't released at the time IIRC) means that there was code still sitting in the bowels of the OS that damned old.

      So worrying about the NSA having a backdoor is like worrying about a pinhole leak when you got a gash the size of an iceberg in your hull. The simple fact is the NSA don't NEED a backdoor, because they can go to a Exploits R' Us and simply buy one for whichever version of Windows they wanted to target. Because with that much code that has been going for THAT long there simply isn't anybody in the company that can tell you with certainty exactly WHAT all those millions of lines of code are doing and where they have come from. I mean it must be a nightmare to get bug fixing duty on that code. Considering the WinNT codebase began as NT OS/2 in 1988 you are talking 21 years of cruft buildup. With that much cruft the NSA simply wouldn't have to bother.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  6. This article basically says by loonycyborg · · Score: 5, Informative

    that the government refused to support the "national software platform" but it still plans to stimulate development and use of FLOSS software. This is a point of view I personally agree with. Why reinvent the wheel once again when you can just pick a linux distro and tweak it according to your needs? :)

  7. Russian speaker here by Harinezumi · · Score: 4, Informative

    From what I can tell from the article, the proposal was forwarded to the Communications Ministry, which replied with a rejection letter, citing the expense involved and lack of clear success metrics. There were also concerns over ghettoizing Russian IT industry away from the international mainstream.

    Ponomoarev is not giving up, though, and is seeking direct dialogue between his parliamentary committee and representatives of the Ministry, and also considering discussing his proposal with other government agencies.

  8. It is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Original Russian text says that Government supported the idea of using open source software, but declined to support National OS.

    So the project is dead.

  9. Translation of the first half of the article by tetromino · · Score: 5, Informative

    There will be no "Russian Windows"

    Deputy Ilya Ponomarev's letter to President Medvedev about the creation of a "national software platform" was redirected to the Ministry of Communications. According to CNews sources, the Ministry's reply letter to the deputy supports the orientation towards domestic and open-source software, but criticizes the deputy's main point - Ponomarev's "national software platform" proposal.

    The authors of the reply (CNews has obtained a copy) agree that "supporting domestic developers is of strategic importance" and "stimulating the creation and use of open-source software is one of the government's priorities in the area of IT policy". However, they argue against the creation of a national software platform, believing that such a measure will not be a solution for the domestic IT sector's problems. The ministry writes that "the creation of such a combination of operating systems, software tools, software applications and open standards will not give a return to the economy and society".

    The text directly mentions the high cost and risk of the project from the corruptibility point of view, due to the uncertainty of the criteria for project success. The authors also see a danger in the separation between the domestic and world IT industries that would result from the choice of such a development policy.

    The Ministry of Communications proposes an orientation towards the possibilities that are enabled by the open-source model of software development. It proposed to direct the nation's limited resources towards the development and modification of "world leading solutions in cooperation with the world's best specialists".

  10. Good news by Roman+Mamedov · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They basically suggested ditching the ambitious from-scratch "national software platform", or the infamous vapourware "Russian OS", and instead focusing on contributions to existing Free Software projects.

    The key sentence from TFA:
    "The communications ministry has instead suggested to use the possibilities offered by the Free Software development model. The limited national resources should be put to further the development of "the best internationally-created solutions, in cooperation with the leading specialists from around the globe".

    Yay, there are sane people in our government.

  11. Second half by tetromino · · Score: 3, Informative

    Considering the above, the reply proposes to "harmonize Russian normative regulations with international law, including the Civil Code and a number of federal laws". Among the other proposed measures are the development of a list of prescriptions to ensure the compatibility between government IT systems, pilot projects for switching government agencies to open-source software, the creation of a repository of such software, and legislation to counteract monopolies in government IT purchases.

    Ilya Ponomarev, chairman of the Duma technology development subcommittee, has not received the reply so far, but agreed to comment on the text that is in CNews' possession. "All of the Ministry's proposals on the one hand are directly listed in our letter, and on the other hand contradict the argument given in the reply", the deputy says. "I can only welcome the creation of a repository for domestic open-source software, if it will be created. At the moment there does not exist such a repository."

    The MP is is sure that the Ministry of Communications does not want to engage in investment activities in the IT sector, but simply wants fo stimulate them within the framework of economic liberalism. "All successful large-scale high-tech projects have been completed with the indirect participation of the state. The Internet, Unix -- these are all indirect results of government programs. We will not succeed purely by market stimulation measures, such a development is possible only given an established market, and we do not have one," Ponomarev told CNews. "I am happy that the Ministry has realized the necessity of legislative initiatives, and I await Ministry representatives to present their proposals to our committee. If the Ministry of Communications does not want to deal with the national software platform, we can partner with other government agencies."

  12. My understanding of FOSS in Russia by zlogic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Russia, and my understanding of the government's Linux usage is this:
    A few projects are being written using FOSS software, and depending on the outcome Linux will be either considered for other uses or will be abandoned completely. Corruption is a big problem because some companies (mostly Microsoft) bribe the people deciding which software will be installed.
    Police raids searching for illegal software only accept a receipt or a license with a hologram. These are mostly directed at companies and, recently, individuals who install or troubleshoot software for a living. Even if you use Ubuntu you'll probably be considered a pirate 'cause you won't be able to show valid proof that the software is legally purchased. Some companies sell an Ubuntu DVD plus a license certificate for a nominal fee.
    Another problem is the so-called "otkat" bribery: when a manager buys Windows for his company for $200, he may ask the store to sell it for $300 (and print a receipt for $300), and split the $100 difference between himself and the store's manager. Linux costs less or is even free, so less money may be extracted from its purchase.

    OTOH, I was recently applying for a new passport and the whole system was running on Linux. It automatically OCRed the forms and extracted stuff like signatures, placing them in a database. The system was very simple to use, the computer booted and the app started automatically, it was written in QT3; the OS was some kind of custom Linux distribution based on AltLinux (which itself was forked from an old Mandrake release).
    And, Microsoft started suing organisations using pirated software, the solution is either switching to Linux and spending money on training employees, or spending about the same amount on Windows+Office. If enough companies choose the first option, it may actually become the year of Linux on the desktop. Especially since the recent crisis lowered salaries and increased prices of foreign goods by nearly 30-40%.

    1. Re:My understanding of FOSS in Russia by toby · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Corruption is a big problem because some companies (mostly Microsoft) bribe the people deciding which software will be installed.

      Happens worldwide, including the US.

      Police raids searching for illegal software only accept a receipt or a license with a hologram. These are mostly directed at companies and, recently, individuals who install or troubleshoot software for a living.

      And this is exactly what Microsoft wants to happen everywhere, especially the US.

      (If you don't like it, do something about it.)

      --
      you had me at #!
  13. Russian Linux distribution by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

    They should use some Russian Linux distribution. And use Russian Tux as their mascot.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  14. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm from Russia and it's obvious that the project wasn't aimed to provide a really good alternative platform but to make a buzzword and PR for initiators. The people who really do something, like Alt Linux or ASP Linux or Mandriva Ru get no support ever. And so is true for most independent russian companies that try to develop free or open source based products.

  15. Re:Funny by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Funny

    Red Flag Linux is missing software used to track your bribes, so is completely useless for Russians.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  16. Innovation comes from the Individual, not Gov't by reporter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Seriously speaking, innovation comes from the individual, not the government. Take the case of Japan, which was once touted as the best example of government intervention. The Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI) set industrial policy that nudged Japan into the electronics industry but, importantly, stopped short of specifying the design of specific products. The transistor radio came from Sony engineers, not MITI bureaucrats. The DRAM chips came from NEC engineers, not MITI bureacrats. MITI provided the environment for fostering creativity, but individual engineers produced the creativity and the products.

    The Kremlin is wrong to think that the government can pick a winning operating system (OS) and then guide its develop.

    The best thing that the Kremlin can do is the following.

    1. Enforce intellectual property rights.
    2. Allow freedom of expression (an important part of human rights), thus fostering creativity. Freedom of culture expression (e. g., criticism of government) is just as important as freedom of scientific expression. Both types of expression are part of the same human mind. Scientists -- like Andrei Sakharov -- have been some of the strongest advocates of democracy and human rights. If you suppress one form of expression, then you will damage the other form.
    3. Eliminate corruption and legal nihilism.
    4. Heavily fund research projects at Russian universities. Japan's MITI did not heavily fund univerisites and but did heavily fund research consortiums or national research projects, both being staffed by employees from Japanese companies. MITI also steered low-interest loans (from key banks) toward Japanese companies doing research and development of various key technologies. This Japanese approach had the same effect as heavily funding universities.
    5. Protect Western culture by, for example, strictly regulating immigration. (Japan has strict immigration policies.)

    In short, create a liberal Western society and a truly free market. Within this environment, Russian engineers will, for reasons of greed or personal achievement, create the best OS that meets the needs of Russian society. If the Japanese can achieve such technological success, I am certain that the Russians can do the same.

  17. Sadly disappointed... by rts008 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was so looking forward to trying the 'Stalinux' distro, comrade.

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  18. They got an even better name for it! by jonaskoelker · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was so looking forward to trying the 'Stalinux' distro, comrade.

    I heard they went with 'Lenix'.