Slashdot Mirror
Bill Would Declare Your Blog a Weapon
Mike writes "Law prof Eugene Volokh blogs about a US House of Representatives bill proposed by Rep. Linda T. Sanchez and 14 others that could make it a federal felony to use your blog, social media like MySpace and Facebook, or any other Web media 'to cause substantial emotional distress through "severe, repeated, and hostile" speech.' Rep. Sanchez and colleagues want to make it easier to prosecute any objectionable speech through a breathtakingly broad bill that would criminalize a wide range of speech protected by the First Amendment. The bill is called The Megan Meier Cyberbullying Prevention Act, and if passed into law (and if it survives constitutional challenge) it looks almost certain to be misused."
I love how the bill starts with the classic, "for the children" clauses to rationalize the trampling of the bill of rights.
This is just a clarification of "harassment" as it already exists. It's not an attempt to shut down blogs. If someone is obviously and intentionally harassing someone else, I have no problem with them having legal recourse.
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
Write your congresscritters. If you fail to do so, you're complicit in whatever happens.
That said, it's a stupid bill.
If you don't like the things I say in my blog, wouldn't the most rational reaction be to simply don't fucking read it???
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
That said, nothing of value was lost.
Aside from our freedom of speech, that is.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
No, they're not trying to remove the First Amendment. It's still there, and if this bill conflicts with the First Amendment (and I can't see how any reasonable person could say otherwise), its clear legally that the bill would be tossed out as unconstitutional.
instead of reducing the number of rights people have, we increase the responsibility that they must take for exercising those rights?
You want to cyber bully some one, go for it. But if that person commits suicide due to your actions, we'll hold you accountable for it.
Same with gun laws. You want a full auto machine gun? Go for it! You screw up with a gun, and we'll destroy your life.
Instead of teaching people not to do things, we should be teaching them that there are repercussions to the acts that they take. You have the freedom to f' up. But with that freedom comes the personal responsibility to not f'up.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
There's always a fine line where free speech "goes to far".
Really? And what would that be? Something you don't like? Something your mom doesn't like? Something Senator Bedfellow doesn't like? Sorry, Free Speech means that you are going to be offended and hear lots of things you don't like.
but should someone be allowed to say they want to kill all members of [group X]? If so, do members of [group X] have the right to take that threat seriously and act accordingly by pre-emptively defending themselves against the threat?
An actual threat is one thing - and it's already covered in current law. So is a conspiracy to commit a crime. But saying that all XXX's ought to be killed? That's free speech. Acting on it or threatening by saying "I am going to kill all XXX's" is not.
Calling someone names is NOT, and should NOT be a crime. Ever.
That is, unless you call someone names until you make them cry.
This law will further criminalize every teenager in America.
May the Maths Be with you!
this is what happened to meier: she was mentally and emotionally unstable. she was a minor. an adult, over an extended period of time, purposefully targetted her and assassinated her confidence with false friends and false romantic interests and outright suggesting she kill herself. then she committed suicide
obviously, no one here supports that. at the same time, those rightfully outraged about what happened to meier are proposing limitations on free speech which are too broad. what you need to do is take what motivates them and REDIRECT their free speech limiting efforts to not be so broad. just laughing and riciculing their efforts doesn't satisfy their motivations. and their motivations are real and vlaid, so you have to address them:
you can say anything you want online. unless you: 1. target one individual, 2. over an extended period of time, 3. who is a minor (nad you are an adult), 4. who is mentally unstable
those who want to fight bullying would agree with this. you, defenders of free speech, would agree to this. so stop just shouting down and ridiculing those who are fighting cyberbullying. just redirect their passions. what motivates them is real and valid: a teenage girl was hounded to commit suicide. there is a valid reason to protect her. there is a valid legal space in which new speech laws can exist that, again:
1. stand against targetting one individual
2. over an extended period of time
3. who is a minor (and the bully is an adult)
4. who is mentally unstable
the most hardcore free speech zealot understands why you cant shout fire in a crowded theatre. therefore, everyone recognizes that yes, there actually ARE limits to free speech. so take what motivates those who are angry at the meier case, and HELP them channel their anger into a SPECIFIC limit on online speech of the form of the 4 limitations above
you have to respect the legitimacy of what motivates those who are upset about what happened to meier. just laughing at or ridiculing their overarching efforts doesn't stop them from trying to right the injustive that happened to meier. you can HELP them, and HELP to retain your free speech principles by tailoring and redirecting their passions to a specifically worded area of what is obviously heinous cyberbullying and does not infringe on your free speech rights
imagine that, compromise, rather than a bunch of kneejerk zealotry like you find in other comments here, without any recognition that waht motivates those who are righfully outraged about wehat happened to meier
for those of you who care about your free speech rights: how do you protect the meiers of the world? you need to address that. if you don't, there will be continued attacks on free speech forever, because what motivates those who want to protect the meiers of the world is just as valid an impulse as those who want to protect free speech
sure, some of you could say the meiers of the world need to just toughen up. fuck them, people are cruel, get used to it
by the same token, i could say to you that some assholes want to limit your free speech so tough luck, just shut up about some of what you want to say... this statement is bullshit, i'm just demonstrating that if you don't show any sensitivity to valid concerns about cruelty to others, why do expect anyone to have sympathy for your concerns about free speech?
because, in the end, the principles and passions that support free speech are the same principles and passions that seek to protect the meiers of this world. you protect the rights and liberties of the weak in this world, or you merely help create a world of cruelty, in which limits of free speech are inevitable. limits on free speech are really just a form of cruelty that this cyberbully demonstrated when manipulating meier
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I blew off the republican's stand against the federal government as a way to shore up support for the Republican party, and as a registered democrat, I do see some validity in their point. Am I trolling? No. My point is, this is a FEDERAL crime they're speaking of. This is definitely something that can be handled and prosecuted at the state level. This has zero effect on national security or interstate commerce. The fact that this is being handled at the Federal level indicates it's just a Bush-era grab for additional surveillance. Put on your tin foil hat everyone, this isn't just fantasy, this sort of bill passing is a weekly occurrence in England. Stop this crap from coming to our borders. The new fight isn't against communist Russia, it's Orwellian England.
moox. for a new generation.
"with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person"
Who determines intent? Is it what I say my intent was, or is it what they say my intent was?
...but should someone be allowed to say they want to kill all members of [group X]?
Yes, they should.
If so, do members of [group X] have the right to take that threat seriously and act accordingly by pre-emptively defending themselves against the threat?
Yes again, and all involved have the right to pay the consequences of any unlawful actions they may take. Declaring the desire to do harm to a group of people is protected speech, however planning to do harm to a group of people and making preparations to do so is pre-meditation. The specifics of the situation determine the legality, and we already have laws to account for them. If [group X] decides to preemptively strike the threatener, then they have commited a crime unless they can justify self-defense to the satisfaction of the court.
Words are words, by themselves incapable of causing harm unless uttered at extremely high volumes. It is only when those words are acted upon that they become harmful, and blame then falls upon the perpetrator, not the author. Slander and libel are a different matter, of course, but again, we already have laws to deal with those situations.
Ignorance is Bliss -- And the Opposite is True -- Genius is Madness
As much as I hated the KKK, I reluctantly agreed that they should get their free speech rights. Unfortunately, it looks like this Democratic government is going to overturn this under the guise of legislating political correctness.
Are you surprised? Most European countries (which are regarded as further to the left than the United States in most instances) already criminalize "hate" speech. I'm no fan of "hate speech" myself but my right to free speech overrides your right not to be offended by what I say. Besides, the danger of the Government getting to say what is and what is not "hate speech" should be apparent to anyone.
Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it"? Why does it seem like Democrats are at least as effective at infringing on civil liberties as Republicans are, but never seem to get called on their BS to the same degree?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
If 'any reasonable person' would find it unconstitutional, this legislation should have never been proposed in the first place. These people are supposed to have taken an oath to protect the Constitution, not deliberately undermine it.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
The hell you say. I consider any word with "bacca" in it to be offensive, hostile, and ugly. I also don't like the name "Sue". If I, or anyone like me, get to be a judge, you're toast.
It doesn't matter what the content of your blog is, someone will be offended by it.
Censorship anywhere is a threat to freedom everywhere.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Umm, what if someone decides that your blog is "severe" enough. Severe is a subjective word with no definition, which is exactly the problem with this. Severe is akin to "I don't like you, thus I find your content objectionable" and suddenly you committed a felony.
Slashdot headlines can be a bit over the top, but I wouldn't assume that any blog is magically not objectionable even if there are no swear words or hostile phrases.
I wish we had a "three strikes" law for politicans. If you propose or sponsor Constitutionally illegal laws more than twice in your career, you get immediately shit-canned.
There is a war going on for your mind.
> ..and the "Fairness Doctrine" (currently more of a boogyman being trotted out by that blow hard Rush,
> than an actual rallying point for the Dems, but it does have it's supporters).
[SARCASM]
Ain't it the truth. Right now it only has a few back benchers like Congresswoman Pelosi behind it. But if Rush lets up on bashing it some of the more influential politicians might feel safe enough to start pushing it.
[/SARCASM]
It's all of a kind with this crap in today's article, previous attempt by the 'progressives' like McCain/Feingold, etc. But people refuse to connect the dots and see that one party just can't seem to stop attacking the Bill of Rights. If they aren't attacking the 1st Amendment they are attacking the 2nd. They won their fight against the 9th and 10th long ago, as those are are simply dead these days. Do you really believe they won't go after the others? They really have problems with the whole concept of a Constituition and the Rule of Law thing, they prefer the Rule of Men... so long as it is them doing the Ruling.
Democrat delenda est
because congress needs to repeatedly validate their existence by passing new laws instead of merely modifying existing ones or writing ones that are good enough to be properly enforced.
Kinda like how we need repeateded attempts at new gun control laws so that only those attempting to follow the law are confused.
The criminals don't care, they've already proven that by being criminals.
I VOTE WE NAME THIS THE "DIRTY SANCHEZ" BILL!!!!!!
Tough cases make bad law. So do emotional cripples. A healthy person would not kill himself over something like this. It's a very unfortunate situation, but this law is just another step down the Orwellian slippery slope our government has been rushing down the last 20 years or so.
How can a country founded on free speech enact laws that attempt to control what you think? That's what this is all about.
You cannot control people's thoughts. That's the worst kind of police state imaginable. Murder is murder. The pre-hate crimes definitions are only reasonable ways we can distinguish among different levels of culpability.
When it comes to speech, we cannot turn the whole world into Romper Room because some little emo girl took her nihilistic rock and roll records a little too literally. It's an ugly world out there. That's a shame, but it's true and you can't stop it or legislate it away.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I will say now and I have always said it, this is an adult's world. I am tired of our elected officials, and these parent groups trying to turn the real world into some giant fucking playpen. I love how politicians upon election catch a tick that forces them to compulsively think of the children and try to legislate away our rights so that we can protect snot nosed little assholes. I'm sorry, your kid may be cute to you, your kid may be your pride and joy but they are also becoming an obstacle to the ideals of this country. Look at what is being done all over the United States to shelter kids from the air everyone else breathes. Phys Ed is started to take on a "no loser" policy where everyone must engage in an activity where there are no losers and everyone is a winner because of some need not to make a child feel bad. Do people honestly think that is in the child's best interest. Look at parent groups like the PTC trying to take anything and everything that aren't mindless programming off the air because a kid might see it. Now we have this cyberbulling bullshit because some kid(s) with emotional problems offed themselves.
Every generation of adults look at the world around them and realize that it is the same shitty world their parents inherited (just with newer technology) and thinks that if they shelter their children, they will grow up to create a perfect world. Doesn't seem to work like that. You keep a kid away from the feelings of losing, sadness, stress, and fear and when those feelings finally hit you have just created a generation of mal-adjusted assholes. Being a child is not some magic state that becomes undone on somebody's 18th birthday. A kid is just an adult in training and we (society AND parents) should keep that in mind. Having said that, fuck your children, they are your problem. I won't go out of my way to harm a child but I am also not going to curtail my rights and liberties because some kid might cry.
> These two things are mutually exclusive.
Really? So you launched the 2nd American Revolution when the 1st Amendment went away? It did you know, McCain Feingold's purpose was to carefully regulate political speech in the times when it matters most, near an election. It was passed mostly by Democrat politicians but was signed by President Bush even though he knew it to be unconstituitional. He was afraid of the MSM attacking him as a defender of big lobbists (which was no excuse to forsake his Oath) and then the Supremes suprised him and upheld it in one of their infamous 5-4 decisions.
So "Congress shall make no law.." is null and void because the Supremes said Congress CAN make a law so long as they approve of the law. So how many congresscritters did you bag? Uh huh.
When the 'assault weapons ban' was in effect that was most certainly an infringement. Hell, the machine gun ban is most certainly an infringement for the purposes of "..shall not be infringed." since at the time the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms included every weapon the military bore into war. Private militia companies even owned cannon. How many congresscritter and/pr faithless judges did you bag?
Nope, we be frogs slowly boiling to death.
Democrat delenda est
No, but you're completely misunderstanding what's going on here.
If Microsoft found your blog to be full of severe, repeated hostile language, then you would be in violation of the law. Not CIVIL law, but FEDERAL law. This wouldn't be a case where you sue for damages. This would be a case where they show evidence to a jury of your peers that the language on your blog was, indeed, severely hostile and repeated, and thus in violation of the law, and then you'd go to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
If they found that the contents of your blog were also harmful lies, well, that's a civil matter. THAT would be libel.
But that's a whole different case. As far as I can see, this bill makes no distinction between truth and falsehood -- therefor, you could be locked up for saying things that are COMPLETELY TRUE, yet cause somebody to feel severe emotional distress (PEOPLE GET SEVERELY EMOTIONALLY DISTRESSED WHEN POPEYE'S RUNS OUT OF CHICKEN FFS).
Now isn't that a fun idea?
Let's actually look at the wording of the law.
"(a) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
Wait, coerce? COERCE? TITS OR GTFO would be in violation of federal law. I wish I was joking -- I am not.
Intimidation, coercion, what the fuck? These are not things that are illegal to do in person. There are circumstances that MAKE them illegal, but let's say you're talking to your significant other and trying to talk them into sex even though they're kinda tired.
Nothing wrong about that at all.
Now, this law passes. Now repeat the above, but via some sort of electronic means. You are now attempting to coerce -- perhaps even intimidate would be able to be used, it depends on how Wymyn's-Lib the judge is (ZOMGS SEX IS INNATELY ABOUT VIOLENCE AND DOMINANCE AND ABUSE bitch please) -- and you're in violation of the Illustrious Idiot Sanchez of the glorious state of Cali-less-free-than-the-rest-of-the-country-fornia.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
It's easier, better, and more effective in both the long and short run to world-proof a child than it is to child-proof the world. I agree with you 100%.
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo