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RIAA Filed 62 New Cases In April Alone

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Based upon a quick examination of the records in PACER, I detected 62 new cases brought by the RIAA against individuals in the month of April alone. In December, 2008, the RIAA had represented to Congress that they had 'discontinued initiating new lawsuits in August [2008].'"

25 of 243 comments (clear)

  1. Surprising by count+rostov · · Score: 5, Funny

    The RIAA, lying? Who saw that one coming?

    1. Re:Surprising by futureb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everyone hates lawyers until they need one. If you are ever served with a complaint, I would welcome you to the Guild and would look forward to your learning civil procedure in the time given to you to file your answer...if you know how much time that is.

    2. Re:Surprising by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      remove the NEED for lawyers, then.

      you guys are not very smart, are you? you can't quite see that you created this monster and are still arguing that the monster 'needs' to continue living.

      so that the monster can continue.

      circular, huh?

      simplify the laws, put normal 'thinking' people in charge as judges and we could NOT do a worse job than is being done now. not joking about it either, the system is just too complex and needs to be totally broken down and redone.

      lawyers are slime and the fact that you 'need' them indicates a bigger social problem.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure. Simplify the laws. Good answer.

      You know what happens in any game, be it online, tabletop, sport, or whatnot? You lay down a simple rule, it will get abused. You tell people they can't do something in general, they'll argue for specifics. If anybody disagrees, without a specific rule to account for the situation, it's all bitch, bitch, bitch.

      Now, that's just in terms of games. Which don't mean shit. Move that to the real world, where things matter. Someone spilled hot coffee on themselves? Well, they certainly don't want to be embarrassed, so they'll take advantage of a lack of explicit warnings on the cup and sue the restaurant! Broke into someone's house and tripped over something they left out? Technically, you're in a legal grey area regarding trespassing, and besides, there's nothing in the trespassing law saying you don't have to clean up your junk, so sue the homeowner!

      People will fight that much harder to abuse any law you give them until it's spelled out in such explicit detail that they can't find loopholes in time. And thanks to these assholes abusing the "simple" laws, we need to staple more laws on top of them to shut them up when they're being assholes. And that's what's happened. Lawmakers make a law that should be simple, some asshole wants to abuse it for kicks, judges set precedents to attach more detail to laws, repeat cycle.

      If you simplify the laws, you'll get nothing but an army of assholes abusing them. Either they'll get their way or they'll keep arguing you to a stalemate, and seriously, what else are they going to do with their day? You've got important things to do and they don't. They'll win. And regardless of your personal views of how reality works, you'll have that army of assholes whether the laws are "simple" or "complex" or if we "need" lawyers or not.

      The laws and social norms are the only things keeping some overly creative asshole with too much time on his hands from picking you at random, finding some way to empty your life, and getting away with it scot-free. Yes, even if you think anarchy is teh bestz!!!!1!1 and we'd all be better off if we just did things your way. The legal system didn't make society into what it is. People did.

      Unless it's your plan to eradicate all of humanity?

    4. Re:Surprising by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      simplify the laws, put normal 'thinking' people in charge as judges and we could NOT do a worse job than is being done now. not joking about it either, the system is just too complex and needs to be totally broken down and redone.

      lawyers are slime and the fact that you 'need' them indicates a bigger social problem.

      "Normal, 'thinking' people" can arrive at drastically different conclusions. See Conservative v. Liberal v. Libertarian. So, if you want the law to be consistent, what your saying is that we should scrap all the existing precendences, but start over reestablishing them, which will eventually require lawyers again.

      Or, do you intend to abolish precedence, and let each judge conclude for each case how to interpret and apply the law? Because I see the world where judges can arbitrarily apply law with no regard for established precedence to be far, far worse than the world we have now.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    5. Re:Surprising by TeXMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Normal, 'thinking' people" can arrive at drastically different conclusions. See Conservative v. Liberal v. Libertarian.

      Wait, why are you talking about thinking people in the first sentence and then switch to a totally different topic in the second one?

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    6. Re:Surprising by HuguesT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Judges are normal people like you and me. The right to belong to a political party of one's choosing is a pretty fundamental right.

    7. Re:Surprising by wealthychef · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You cannot keep making more rules. In your world, integrity is assumed not to exist, and you rely on the rules to keep order. Consider two options. In the first, we rely on simple, clear rules and citizens with integrity to enforce them. In this system, some people will cheat, yes, but when the rules are clear, then we can deal with the cheaters by executing good-faith judgment in a trial of their peers, and delivering the full punishment when the law is broken, in speedy, reliable fashion. The downside is that the citizens are expected to be men of honor and we all then have a burden to keep our word. Abuses will occur. In the second option, which is the system you propose, we assume that everyone will cheat, in fact, we expect it. A little cheating is OK, but a lot is "bad." We punish the eggregious cheats, but let the little cheats slide with a wink, since we all do it anyhow, right? How dare some sanctimonious person dare judge our behavior? In this system, you have to keep making more and more rules to cover the edge cases because everyone is looking for a little advantage. Juries are not allowed to exercise as much judgment, instead the rules keep getting "improved". The good thing about such a system is citizens are no longer responsible for their behaviors -- they can blame the rules when things go bad. Or is that such a good thing? Hmm. The down side is that the rules become so twisted that cheating is the NORM. There is no such thing as 98% integrity. As soon as you accept 98% integrity, then you redefine 98% as 100%, and then you start having 96% integrity, which then becomes the new 100% etc. AT some point, we are going to have to admit that we as individuals are responsible for our entire lives and everything we do and say in them, and really be engaged in our society. It cannot work any other way. So yes, scrap the system, replace it with something simpler, I say, and then let's start actually FOLLOWING THE RULES. :-)

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    8. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I really wish people would stop abusing the McDonald's coffee case, it's basically the hallmark of people who refuse to fucking pay attention. She didn't sue because there wasn't a warning the coffee was hot, she sued because it caused 3rd degree burns in under 5 seconds, as it was kept 60F _above_ what was industry standard.

    9. Re:Surprising by fredklein · · Score: 4, Informative

      Liebeck placed
      the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from
      the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled
      into her lap.

      Right there is the whole case- she mis-handled the coffee. The spill was her fault.

      During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
      claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
      involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
      history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
      this hazard.

      What this conveniently leaves out is that those 700 burns (of all types, only "some" were serious) were NATIONWIDE, over TEN YEARS. When you consider the number of cups that they sold in that time, only one in 24,000,000 burned anyone.

      One burn for every 24 million cups.

      McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants
      advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to
      maintain optimum taste.

      That also matches the National Coffee Association's recommendations. And why would the NCA give bad directions for preparing their product??

          He admitted that he had not evaluated the
      safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell
      coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is
      generally 135 to 140 degrees.

      That's simply not true. For example:

      http://www.bunn.com/retail/bunn_difference.html
      "The patented ready-to-brew reservoir keeps water at the ideal brewing temperature of approximately 200 degrees ."

      http://www.bunn.com/retail/dos_donts.html
      " We recommend a quick brew time, using a brewer that keeps water at 200 degrees Fahrenheit (the ideal temperature) and mixes the grounds for full flavor extraction. "

      http://www.cuisinart.com/share/man/29_man.pdf
      After brewing, the heater plate will keep the coffee at about 180 degrees -185 degrees F."

      Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the
      local Albuquerque McDonalds had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit.

      Also not true. "McDonald's policy today is to serve coffee between 80-90 degrees C (176-194 degrees F), relying on more sternly-worded warnings to avoid future liability, though it continues to face lawsuits over hot coffee."
      As an example. see http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_huntingdon/displayarticle.asp?id=180135 from 2007.
      "McDonald's says its black coffee should be served at 85C, plus or minus five degrees."

      And you were saying we needed to find out the facts??

  2. They've gone to the reverse psychology defense by ravenspear · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bainwol: Lying? Baseless. We merely "made available" to Congress our statement that we would stop. You have no proof that we actually had intention to do so.

  3. Perhaps... by rakslice · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... they discontinued initiating lawsuits on August 31st and started right up again on September 1st. Everyone needs a few hours off now and then. =)

  4. Er... by rakslice · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just to get down to brass tacks, the representation in question in the letter seems to be:

    "Also, during this past summer, we began discussions with New York Attorney General Cuomo, who suggested that now was the time to take our practice of last resort -- lawsuits -- and replace that form of deterrence with productive engagement by the ISP community in the form of graduated response programs. At his request, as an act of good faith in pursuing these alternatives, we discontinued initiating new lawsuits in August."

  5. Re:No *new* lawsuits by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Either way.. so long as the lawsuits they file are legitimate (ie. the person being sued actually broke the law) I, personally, have no problem with it..

    Because the laws they bought are "legitimate"?

    I hereby propose a law stating D_Jedi may never own a car, see his mother, or use the internet again.

    Lawsuits against you will follow.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  6. The RIAA didn't really promise anything... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The sentence "we discontinued initiating new lawsuits in August" really does not mean anything.

    First, it doesn't say that the RIAA "stopped" doing anything. To "discontinue" does not mean to "stop," it means "to break the continuity of."

    Second, anything it does say about the RIAA is limited to only the month of August. For example, if I say "Best Buy stopped having 10% off sales in August." That in no way means that Best Buy stopped having 10% off sales forever. It only means they stopped for a period, i.e., broke the continuity, for a single period of time, during the month of August.

    Third, more ambiguity is added by the word "initiate." The use of "initiate" gives the RIAA a lot of wiggle room to start new lawsuits. If anyone complains, the RIAA can merely say, "this lawsuit was actually initiated sometime ago when we first started investigating it." And of course it gives the RIAA complete freedom to "initialize" new lawsuits after August.

    What I don't understand is why the RIAA is conducting these lawsuits in a quasi-stealth mode. I thought the purpose of the lawsuits was to raise public awareness. But when they're "initialized" in secret, that defeats the entire educational purpose. So what really is going on with these reinitialized lawsuits?

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    1. Re:The RIAA didn't really promise anything... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I don't understand is why the RIAA is conducting these lawsuits in a quasi-stealth mode.

      I'm guessing it's because they promised some politicians they would stop, but they can't get over their addiction to picking on defenseless people.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    2. Re:The RIAA didn't really promise anything... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The story isn't about them continuing to bring lawsuits. That would be like the Saturday Night Live bit with Chevy Chase where he would announce that Francisco Franco is "still dead".

      The story is about them lying to Congress.

      They represented to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees that they had "discontinued initiating new lawsuits in August". That was a flat out, bald faced, lie.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:The RIAA didn't really promise anything... by Swanktastic · · Score: 5, Funny

      First, it doesn't say that the RIAA "stopped" doing anything. To "discontinue" does not mean to "stop," it means "to break the continuity of."

      Quickly! We need to repaint all the octagonal red signs in this country to say "DISCONTINUE MOTION."

      Otherwise I predict severe, permanent traffic problems.

  7. Re:Lying to Congress by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  8. Re:Perjury by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In this case it was lying to Congress, so the body capable of enforcing sanctions would be Congress itself, which would have to cite the RIAA's representative for contempt of Congress. I'll let you guess what the chances of them doing so are.

  9. Re:They were technically telling the truth by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nope. Believe it or not, they were telling the truth, and it still applies. This is possible due to a little-known law enacted in the summer of 1837, which states that lawsuits are not really considered to be lawsuits, if they're brought against defenseless pensioners who have no idea what the charge means, much less how to defend themselves against it.

    Thank you so much for the explanation; I never would have known.

    And here I thought Mitch Bainwol was a lying, yellow bellied piece of garbage.

    Boy did I have him wrong.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  10. Everyone does it by Demonantis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is not really any severe penalty to lie in front of congress. The RIAA aren't required to do anything they say to congress. Tonnes of businesses have done it. And Presidents

    1. Re:Everyone does it by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is not really any severe penalty to lie in front of congress.

      Unless it's about a blow-job.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  11. Wheat germ and chessboard. by xigxag · · Score: 4, Funny

    Poor innocent RIAA-tan will never catch all the piracy scofflaws using this time-consuming serial approach. Hasn't she ever heard of multi-level marketing? Or the classic wheat and chessboard problem? It's simple.

    They need to sue the bejeesus out of someone, and offer to settle by forcing the person to buy the rights to a minor song, and then requiring that that person protect their rights by suing two other people. And those two other people will have to settle by each suing two other people, and so on, and so on.

    Eventually everyone will wind up being sued, but at least having nice smelling hair.

    --
    There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
  12. Re:Terrorism by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    We need to wipe out RIAA's financing!

    The best way I know of to do that is before buying any cd or mp3 go to RIAA Radar and make sure that the label is not a member of the RIAA... and of course to (a) spread awareness of the site, and (b) help the site out financially.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful