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Hacker Destroys Avsim.com, Along With Its Backups

el americano writes "Flight Simulator community website Avsim has experienced a total data loss after both of their online servers were hacked. The site's founder, Tom Allensworth, explained why 13 years of community developed terrains, skins, and mods will not be restored from backups: 'Some have asked whether or not we had back ups. Yes, we dutifully backed up our servers every day. Unfortunately, we backed up the servers between our two servers. The hacker took out both servers, destroying our ability to use one or the other back up to remedy the situation.'"

13 of 780 comments (clear)

  1. This should be a lesson... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    To any sysadmins and DBAs...

    Make sure you have offsite backups

    1. Re:This should be a lesson... by nemesisrocks · · Score: 5, Informative

      Make sure you have offsite backups

      In this case, even offline (as opposed to offsite) backups would have sufficed.

      Removable hard disks, DVDs -- hell, even tapes. These are all forms of backups that can't be compromised (well, easily) over the internets.

    2. Re:This should be a lesson... by coryboehne · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's actually very difficult to truly destroy data, especially remotely. There is actually a reason the DoD spec. requires physical destruction of the media.

      Unless you have overwritten the area on the physical disk that contained the data, multiple times, the data can still be recovered.

      The article doesn't lead me to believe that he's tried very hard to get this data back.. Maybe somebody (not me) who cares about this resource, should offer an attempt at data recovery.. Just be sure to hurry, before they do something that will ensure you cannot recover the data.

      I've recovered data off of formatted HDD's, off of corrupted file systems, off of compact flash cards and other media (Really useful if you want to keep those photo's that someone thought was deleted, be aware of this people).

      It's amazing how most people seem to think deleted means gone.

    3. Re:This should be a lesson... by unlametheweak · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which reminds me. They could always use the WayBack Machine to (help in) retrieving their archives:
      http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.avsim.com/

      Google Cache seems to archive only the most recent pages:
      http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.avsim.com%2F&submit2=Google

    4. Re:This should be a lesson... by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Informative

      pv < /dev/zero > /dev/device is pretty nifty too.

  2. Real men... by hugetoon · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff
    on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)"
                                                        Linus Torvalds Jul 20 1996, 3:00 am

  3. Re:Hindsight is always 20/20 by inKubus · · Score: 4, Informative

    And for those who don't like to pay $10000 for backup software, there's Bacula. Couple that with an LTO-4 drive (~1000) and LTO-4 tapes (800GB uncompressed, ~60/piece) and you're set. Rsync.net is a decent, cheap online provider for those gaps when you haven't rotated tapes.

    Bacula is pretty sweet because it lets you backup to disk volumes and then you can schedule a roll to tape. So you can just back everything up incrementally to a disk volume and then copy those backups to tape, and then run rsync on the disk volumes to have an offsite, online backup. When recovering, you ask to recover from whatever's available. If you keep enough disk storage around (and there's really no reason not to) you can recover to any date in the past. In the event of a disaster your tapes come into play.

    Now with drives so cheap the temptation is to buy a external hard drive and use that. But tapes have a long history, guaranteed backwards compatibility (planned anyway, LTO drives have to R/W the previous generation and Read 2 generations back), last longer than moving drives, are simpler, lighter, more robust and more portable. Not that I wouldn't keep a external around to dump desktops but tape is the DR standard.

    --
    Cool! Amazing Toys.
  4. Lies, damn lies. by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The admins' claim that they were backed up is nothing short of an outright lie. A dependency on rsync or any other mirroring technique alone is just plain negligent, when both servers are exposed to the world at large. As a bad analogy, it's like allowing someone to light two fuses with the same match.

    The only way to do backups properly is to have a complete set, offline, in a separate location.

    Sheesh. When will people learn?

    1. Re:Lies, damn lies. by Gerzel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Remember kids if it isn't backed up to an off-line copy then it isn't backed up.

    2. Re:Lies, damn lies. by magarity · · Score: 5, Informative

      A dedicated backup box can be much more hardened
       
      What you've described is only marginally better than what these people did. A second server playing backup device, even if it's "much more hardened", whatever that means, is still an extremely lousy and ineffective backup. If lightening hits your building or arson or theft, your "it's hardened"! backup server is just as toasted as the primary. Backups MUST be to removable media that's kept off site and inactive.
       
      Otherwise you've done practically the same thing for data "backup" as the RAID does via disks, except with two servers.

  5. Re:overwritten once CAN be recovered by crisco · · Score: 5, Informative

    The [a href="http://16systems.com/zero.php"]Great Zero Challenge[/url] says otherwise. They're simply asking for the filename of one of the files on a drive that has been wiped once with zeros. Despite offering the challenge for over a year and actively speaking to data recovery companies, no one has taken them up on the offer.

    --

    Bleh!

  6. The people running the site ARE NOT IT Admins by IvanTheNotSoBad · · Score: 5, Informative

    So they had no real backup strategy....but what happened to them REALLY REALLY sucks. It really irks me seeing so many comments saying these "retards" had it coming to them.

    Listen folks....we're talking about a couple of guys who spent their free time creating a website. They're not making any real money out of this (in fact, they all have regular day jobs).

    They've been advertising for a Tech Manager (non-paid) for quite a quite so time now. They did get one recently...but it turns out the guy harvested the emails from the systems and sent out a bunch of spam. He has since been fired.Even though the avsim folks aren't saying it was him who hacked and destroyed their site, it's quite hard not to think it was him.

    It's been quite a blow to the flightsim community and I have noticed a lot of IT folks are offering help.....I just haven't seen a single one on this thread.

  7. You are correct about drive age by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Informative
    Data recovery was possible, and was not actually that hard, on older drives. The reason was the size of the bits, and the inaccuracy of the tracking servos. As a result, an overwrite would rarely be on exactly the same path as the original data. Mounting the disc in a special drive with precision tracking and more than one head meant that the overwritten data could be read by the leading head, and then used to generate a correction signal which was added (with the correct delay) to the signal coming from the trailing head which was on a different alignment and so was picking up more of the previous signal. We're talking raw signal here, not ones and zeroes.

    Tedious and expensive, but several people made a good living out of doing it (one guy I knew did it as a hobby and made over UKP100K one year.) However, as bits get smaller, servos get more accurate, and tracks get denser, the modus operandi just ceases to exist any more.

    Mind you, for security reasons I always dismantle old drives and bend the disks in half using a lump hammer. That, and the fact that hard drive magnets are just incredibly useful if you have a steel hulled boat and want convenient attachments for e.g. cable ties. They are powerful and very short range, and usually nickel plated. To buy a pair of equally useful magnets from hardware stores costs nearly as much as a drive.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."