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Does Dell Know What Women Want In a Laptop?

Hugh Pickens writes "Finding the right approach for gender-specific marketing can be really tricky, said Andrea Learned, a marketing expert and author of Don't Think Pink — What Really Makes Women Buy. So when Dell recently took the wraps off a new Web site called Della, geared toward women, featuring tech 'tips' that recommended calorie counting, finding recipes, and watching cooking videos as ways for women to get the most from a laptop, a backlash erupted online, as both women and men described the Web site as 'ridiculous' and 'gimmicky.' Della's heavy emphasis on colors, computer accessories, dieting tips, and even the inclusion of a video about vintage shopping 'seems condescending to women consumers,' says Learned. Instead, Dell should have emphasized function and figured out ways to sell the netbooks that weren't clichéd and reliant on gender stereotypes. 'Some brands go too far with the girlie stuff,' Learned says. 'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'"

21 of 669 comments (clear)

  1. Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry to be politically-incorrect here. But just because some people find a certain stereotype demeaning doesn't necessarily make it a complete falsehood. Sure, it's stereotypical to say that women like pink, pretty accessories, shoes, knick-knacks they can put on a million shelves on the wall (instead of the movie posters that belong there), a pink cover on the toilet, decorative soaps, scented candles, etc., etc. But you know what? That "stereotype" effectively describes 4 out my 5 last girlfriends, my mother, all my aunts, and a solid majority of female friends I've had over the years.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Hey, we didn't get these stereotypes out of thin air, most often any stereotype comes from observed reality of the actions/traits a certain strata of the population exhibits a great deal of the time.

      I really hate this PC era...everyone needs to lighten up a bit, learn to laugh at themselves, and others. Quit looking for a reason to be offended.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by mc1138 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because they're true doesn't mean they want to be reminded about them. It's like telling that girlfriend she should go on a diet, or that she looks fat in those jeans.

    3. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by iamhigh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Next time you buy groceries why don't you glance at all the mags at the checkout. Count how many have something about "Lose weight in 2 weeks" or "See how J-Lo dropped the pounds" or similar. Then come back and tell me again, sincerely, that women don't want to hear dieting tips.

      The op is right, we really have to lighten up. I am hoping eventually the world gets burned out on hearing about the "OH NOES - NOT P.C." stories and quits caring.

      --
      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
    4. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by kandela · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By marketing at stereotypes, you reinforce them. By treating women like they aren't tech savvy, you're making them feel uncomfortable about being tech savvy.

      If you think I'm talking nonsense then try this experiment. I assume you are a guy with a comment like that. So, go to the department store. Find and buy a pink jacket/shirt and wear it for a month. When someone comments, or asks why you are wearing pink, reply that you like the colour. Then after a month, come back to me and tell me how comfortable you felt about doing it.

      --
      Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go round.
    5. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...but consider:

      • Stereotypes usually come from anecdotal sampling, rather than hard numbers. Why should we put stock in them?
      • A "kernel of truth" says nothing about the relative size of the effect. E.g. even if women prefer pink on average, how predictive is that statement for a particular female consumer? What are the error bars?
      • Even if a stereotype is correct, on average, using it as the basis for marketing is usually dumb because the group you are targeting may well be offended by the implication of the stereotype. Again, even if it is true, you may do more damage than good in using that marketing angle.
      • Even if a stereotype is correct in some context, that doesn't mean it translates to others. For instance even if women on average prefer pink, that doesn't mean they want pink laptops. Clothes tend to be aesthetic purchases, whereas laptops tend to be functional purchases. Thus the priority for a woman shopping for a laptop may be totally uncorrelated to color. (Or maybe it is correlated--but anecdotes and stereotypes do not suffice to make that determination.)
      • Stereotypes often arise from cultural forces and even "self-fulfilling prophecies". They are not necessarily intrinsic. From a marketing perspective, the provenance of a trend usually doesn't matter; but from a "treat people with respect" perspective it can be relevant. For instance the "blue=boy and pink=girl" motif is relatively recent. In fact some sources from the 1800s contend that pink is the correct clothing color for baby boys.
      • Stereotypes are frequently generalized illogically. E.g. "girls like pink; I saw I guy wearing a pink shirt yesterday; that guy must be girlie and weak" (this includes both the unfounded pink->girl and girl->weak assumptions).
      • Stereotypes describe one aspect of a class at the expense of others. E.g. maybe women on average like pink, but is that really the defining feature of that class? Is that the most pertinent thing to focus on? Even if true, the choice to focus on that trivializes the identity of the class.

      Point being: stereotypes are looked-down upon for a reason. They are spurious, frequently unhelpful, often downright wrong, and usually rather insulting.

    6. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Indeed, I think the following Einstein quote applies:

      Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

    7. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think anyone's particularly saying they're offended, just that the marketing scheme is a bit of a joke.

      Imagine they made a website targeting a male stereotype, showing a laptop being used in some sports context on a backdrop of explosions and guitar riffs. I can only assume the average Slashdotter would chuckle and treat it as if it were marketing to 'dumb jocks', pointing out that it didn't even mention the technical merits of the machine. We wouldn't be offended, but I think most people here would look down on the site with something between disdain and pity. I expect the phrase "How stupid do they think we are?" would come up, with people wondering why one wouldn't just buy it on the normal Dell site where actual product comparisons are available.

      That's what people are saying here - not that it's deeply offensive, just that the level of sophistication is laughable and that talking down to one's customers is a quick way to lose them.

    8. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really doubt their intention is to target and stereotype all women in the world. They're targeting a niche, and to be honest, lots of girls like those things. If they dont, they dont need to use or buy it. Simple as that. Hell, it would be kind of kinky to see a girl with similar gaming, entertainment and programming equipment to mine.

      However, lots of girls I've seen and dated (including my current girlfriend) would like those, despite the fact that they also like lots of different things. But men and women do see and act to things differently usually, so its good someone also tries to market to that 'niche' (I wouldn't really call it a niche tho).

      Also lots of girls aren't tech savvy. Yes, there's girls that are (wohoo), but men generally are way more interested in technology and such. Or why do you think men have to get the biggest, loudest and latest TV sets with hifi sounds, while most girls are ok with some normal tv if they can just watch it (and not bother too much with it)

      and btw, pink shirts have been in men's fashion for a few years. I doubt anyone comes comment about it.

    9. Re:Stereotypes usually have some kernal of truth by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm still not sure why cooking is always lumped in with the stereotypical female thing. There's a lot of guys that are good cooks, and some of the best professional chefs you see on the food network are men. There are surveys out there that show that cooking is not just a female-dominated thing. Women are more likely to cook, "for the family", so it's more of their chore. Men are more likely to cook as a hobby, so they get into some of the more gourmet stuff. So I'd say this "stereotype" is "busted",...

  2. Why I Feel Divorced From Marketing by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'

    If you add the level of sophistication, you might be perceived as thinking men are incapable of it. While it's socially ok to think of men as the lesser stupider sex today, I don't think that solves the problem.

    If I may impart my engineer's point of view on this topic, don't divide your customers on controversial lines. The fact that you made it any different shopping as a man or woman is going to cause the public to pick apart each site with the finest toothed comb and set to you like dogs. Because it's an old battle and women have very real memories of the glass ceiling and at least some form of repression.

    You aren't making an Ebonics themed site for African Americans and you aren't making a talk-over-your-head snooty themed site for Caucasian Americans. Why? Because it's a sensitive issue. Any subtle difference will cause you to catch hell. Why, I'm going to get torn apart for the adjectives I used above because I'm sure some words have baggage meaning they're slightly better or worse than others.

    Are you going to make different purchase sites for Hindus, Jews, Moslems and Christians? Nope. Say it with me now: because it's a sensitive issue.

    Are you going to make a homosexual themed site so that homosexuals can be distinguished between buyers that are heterosexual. Again, see above.

    There's a list that goes on and on ... frankly, I'm a customer. I expect to be treated the same as another customer unless I have chosen to be treated differently. And if I chose to be treated differently, you better be careful or you'll lose me as a customer. You want to make a Trek themed site to target Trek fans? Fine, but don't you dare pay for images of Scott Bakula or the deal's off.

    Don't Think Pink -- What Really Makes Women Buy

    Thank god a woman wrote that. If it was a man, I'm sure there would have been a march on Washington.

    Why do you even start this up again? Are you really running out of marketing ideas that the only thing left is controversy? Haven't we learned our lesson time and time again?

    Here's an idea if you want a marketing gimmick: pick non-sensitive topics. When a popular super hero movie comes out, make good guy versus bad guy themes and always allow the customer to go to the regular site? Or make generic themes that have no conflict at the center?

    --
    My work here is dung.
  3. Does ANYONE Know What Women Want? by Manip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since I was born I've learned only three things about women:
    - No two are alike
    - No two want the same thing
    - What a women wants changes from moment to moment

    But that all being said, I'd try and sell Laptops via a "Aspirational Lifestyle" (e.g. "You're a 20~ successful, confident, and stylish women. This is the laptop for you.").

    Then produce a bunch of stylish laptops that match that "look." Or match the look of the women in my adverts to my laptops. Either way, the people who aspire to "be that thing" will buy the laptop to do so...

    1. Re:Does ANYONE Know What Women Want? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is my experience that not even women know what women want, but they do know that you're a failure of a man for not giving it to them.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  4. Re:Dudette you're getting a Dell! by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if the wives of Dell executives are upset, or maybe they're too busy doing the dishes and cooking dinner to even know what's going on...

    I dunno. Maybe we should ask the wife of their marketing executive.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  5. The problem is marketing towards "women" by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whenever you make these broad generalizations, there's always going to be the fringe outsiders offended by the stereotype. Dell should have picked a different metaphor that clearly indicates "girly" without saying it. Maybe, market one towards mothers (not women) where there are distinct duties like feeding kids making recipes relevant. Bundle apps for roles and not sex.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  6. so what would be condescending towards men? by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If someone created a website aimed at attracting men and used images of fast cars, busty models and bottles of beer, would those "stereotypes" be condescending to men?

    If so, there are a hell of a lot of very successful condescending websites and magazines about. Now I'm not saying that all men would be attracted to sites like that, just like not all women would be attracted to pink-themed sites, makeup tips and fashion. However, the difference is that men don't go around wailing at how they're being "exploited" or belittled or generalised by these things. They either visit them or ignore them. I would suggest that if women want to see themselves as equal to men they adopt a similar approach and either like it or ignore it ..... unless the thing they really dislike is themselves, individually, being so easy to categorise.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  7. After the protest against dell is over by joeflies · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then will the same groups go on to shut down Better Homes, Oprah, Family Circle and Good Housekeeping magazines? These magazines are focused on women and only publish articles on calorie counting, cooking tips, recipies, and shopping. Won't the same groups think these magazines stereotype women as being stay at home moms? Or does it simply address the needs of a particular marketing segment?

  8. Re:Dudette you're getting a Dell! by feepness · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder if the wives of Dell executives are upset, or maybe they're too busy doing the dishes and cooking dinner to even know what's going on...

    Interesting that you assume all the executives are straight males. Who's not being PC here again?

  9. Long memory is better than short memory. by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFA, from the author of the book:

    "If the netbook is great for using the Internet and has a long memory, that would really be about helping netbook buyers get stuff done while they waited at the airport -- not because they want to check diet sites," she said.

    Seriously... a LONG memory? She's basically proving that Dell was right to leave out technical details for women.
    Reminds me of a Mark Twain quote: "It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt.".

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  10. What women want in a laptop by beadfulthings · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, I can state what I want in a laptop:

    1) It has to be configured for whatever application I want to use it for (games, office, netbook, class).
    2) IT HAS TO WORK.
    3) It has to be associated with reliable service.

    Under those three requirements, Dell breaks down rather badly, and all the recipes and shopping tips they want to throw at me will fall on deaf ears.

    This reminds me of trying to buy a car twenty years ago as a woman. If I happened to drag along my husband, the salesman always made the pitch to him--despite the fact that I was paying for the car and would be driving it. This was fairly common and always infuriating. At some point car salesmen realized that, yes, women do drive, and that they care about more than the coordination of the upholstery. There are even car saleswomen now.

    Dell should take a page from the automobile sales book and pitch their laptops to everyone on the basis of quality, reliability, suitability, and service. Unfortunately they can't really do that and be truthful.

    --
    "Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
  11. Whatever by Greg_D · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Some brands go too far with the girlie stuff,' Learned says. 'Della's marketing strategy sounds like it's advertising a purse. There's a level of consumer sophistication they're missing.'

    Oh really? And why is it that when we're talking about laptops, the kind of language used is evil and demeaning, but when it comes to overpriced sacks, it's fine? Seems to me that Learned's argument is that women are either irrational or just plain dumb regarding things important to women, but if it's important to guys too, then they suddenly get a giant increase in mental capacity.

    Here's what most women want to know about their computers:

    • Can it load myspace and facebook quickly?
    • Can it run my work productivity software?
    • Can I get my email?
    • Can I compose documents?
    • Can I organize my documents?
    • Can it play solitare?

    Only geeks and gamers focus on raw metrics. The rest of the world? They just want to be able to do the things they need a computer for, quicker. And many are even willing to trade speed for portability. Hence, netbooks.

    People who get pissed at marketers for doing what marketers do are just being dishonest for themselves. Marketers don't create ads out of personal satisfaction, they create them because they want to reach the largest possible audience and convince them to buy or do something. That's how they get paid.