What OS and Software For a Mobile Documentary Crew?

jag7720 writes "I am part of a new project that will be filming a documentary. The project HQ will be in the US but it will take us around the world and will last approx 18 months. I am the IT guy and will be responsible for most if not all aspects of hardware and software (not to include editing). We are probably going to use Google mail/calendar/docs and unlocked BlackBerrys for communications. Computers use will mainly be for communications and writing. I am a huge advocate of Linux and Open Source and I want to use it if possible. What would you recommend for an OS platform for a project like this and why? Linux? Mac? Win?"

Comments

MacOS X or Windows

[MikeRT]

Windows and OS X are the two best OSs for guaranteeing that all of your hardware will be supported, and for allowing you to take a lot of powerful video editing capabilities around the world with you. You may be the IT guy, but you won't be the main person doing everything OS X would be a much safer bet for getting this job done.

Re:MacOS X or Windows

[Archangel Michael]

Wrong.

All three platforms have problems with legacy peripherals, however, Linux has better support for many things.

And with Win 7 coming out, I'm sure the "older hardware not being supported" is going to grow again.

Of course, if you're buying all new hardware, then yeah, you're probably right.

Re:MacOS X or Windows

[TheWanderingHermit]

If you're dealing with video equipment, Linux support is often poor.

Re:MacOS X or Windows

[TheWanderingHermit]

Weird. I read the post several times through -- didn't see the "(not to include editing)" and now it's there. While I miss words and symbols due to a learning disability, I don't see how I missed that. I'm going to see if the cached original is different.

Still, after 10 years of a Linux desktop, then switching to an iMac for the past few months, my experience is that on FOSS there's too much time spent working with tools than using tools to do the work.

Communications and writing?

[geminidomino]

If it's just communications (read: email and maybe IM) and writing, then who cares? Honestly. You can buy portable toys that do those two things for $30 in Toys-R-Us these days.

If you're the IT guy, go with what you're comfortable with. You're the one who's going to have to make it work whenever anything goes wrong.

Best option ...

[pbhj]

Commodore 64 with an on-hook phone coupling.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are the IT guy, you get whatever machines and software the team say they need and have experience on to complete the project.

Re:What?

[rvw]

Mod this up. Ask the crew what software they want to use for editing, and get whatever supports that.

Mod parent up, and grandparent as well, and don't forget me! And in the mean time, ask the crew if they need anything like software and machines and stuff and you know. And then give them that!

Re:What?

[nine-times]

That's good advice so long as they didn't come to him and say, "We don't know what to get, you're our IT guy, so you tell us." As an IT guy, it's worth taking your users' preferences into account, but it's not always the sole determining factor.

Besides, it sounds like he's talking about email, word processing, web browsing, etc. Anything can do that. For traveling, you're going to want something small, light, and with good battery life. Traveling around the world with a film crew, I wouldn't be surprised if something got lost, broken, or stolen, so I'd also be looking for something relatively cheap and replaceable. From those criteria, I'd be at least considering netbooks, and then figuring out a scheme to keep important documents backed up online.

Whatever it is, I'd try to standardize (get all the same model) and set the software up so that they're nearly interchangeable. That will make some things easier, but still keep track of who's responsible for which computer. Of course, you may find that someone needs a different model for some reason, so be flexible there, especially if it's your boss.

Re:What?

[Gutboy]

Yes we did, and it says " I am the IT guy and will be responsible for most if not all aspects of hardware and software (not to include editing)."

He isn't in charge of editing.

Re:Final Cut Pro

[schon]

You'll want Final Cut Pro, running on OS X. I love Linux too (typing this in iceweasel, running Debian on my Mac), but OS X is the only OS that really works well for pro multimedia. It's the only reason I dual boot anymore.

Considering he said " not to include editing", are you suggesting that they'll need Final Cut Pro on OSX in order to send email and communicate with each other?

Live USB Linux?

[SEWilco]

For communication and writing, consider Linux on a USB drive. If a computer breaks it can be replaced. Include proper backup tools and procedures, preferably including occasional backups to a server when a fast data link is available, so if a USB drive is lost or destroyed you can create a new one and ship it to the location.

Not FOSS for Film!

[TheWanderingHermit]

I used to work as a videographer, then left and started an IT business based entirely on FOSS and my own work. The entire purpose of this business was to create a revenue stream so I could start a film business. In other words, I know FOSS well, used Linux almost exclusively on my servers and desktop for years, and know film and video well.

If you want to do ANYTHING with film or video editing, do NOT use Linux. While there are a number of great programs for editing audio on Linux and in the FOSS world, the video programs still lag behind. Many times there are issues with importing the video. (Trying to get video from my HD camcorder into any usable format on Ubuntu Intrepid was a nightmare!) There are some programs that show promise for video editing and DVD authoring, but even as late as Intrepid, many still had issues, wouldn't always burn to different DVD drives, had trouble importing more than one or two formats, or provided only a limited subset of editing abilities.

I started looking at Linux for AV work around 2001 or so and was disappointed by what was available. As time went on and I was doing my IT work for my business, I figured that by the time I was ready to do film work, FOSS programs would be as well. Sadly, 8 or 9 years later, they simply are not. Some people will say, "But xxxxx does a great job!" Yeah, it does -- if you don't need professional editing capabilities. As of now I haven't seen a FOSS video editing program that can even do what Adobe's Premiere did in 2000 for $600.

So a few months ago I bought an iMac and paid $250 for Final Cut Express. I'm stunned -- it's like I'm actually back in the world of film and video and have a program designed by film editors, not by programmers who want to tell film editors what they should need.

I love FOSS. I love it enough to say, "There are some serious problems in the FOSS world," instead of pretending everything is the best it could be. My experience is that in the Windows world the driving force behind new software is a company that wants to make something people can use so they make a profit. In the Linux/FOSS world the driving force behind new software is developers that love what they do but often are touchy when receiving criticism of their "baby" and are used to the console and do not focus heavily on the GUI design, expecting people to learn what they already know to use their programs. I'm not a fanboy, but in 2-3 months on an iMac, my experience is that the driving force of app development on Apple is users or companies that want to give the users the tools they need to do a job.

If you want to provide your people with tools that you, as a techie and Linuxer, like for philosophical reasons, go Linux -- but be aware that your creative people will spend more time adjusting and setting up and modifying their tools than they will doing their jobs. If you want to provide them with software that lets them do their jobs, instead of having to deal with settings and tech stuff, go with Mac.

Re:Not FOSS for Film!

[TheModelEskimo]

I felt the same way using IRIX back in the day. I was supposed to be practicing Video Special-FX fu, but instead I was spending my time wading through documentation. Somebody give me a Mac! Then some guy would come along and create incredibly polished work with very the same machine I was trying to use.

Years before that, the same thing happened with an Amiga 2000. I could barely use the thing. All I could do was stare at the pretty icons and hope to figure out what was going on, but here were people making a living off of it.

Nowadays, I do a fair bit of video editing on Linux. I even make a good profit off of it. The difference is, this time around, I'm the guy who learned the software and can use the system. My world is a mish-mash of command line applications, Nautilus scripts that will let me drag & drop a file from the client and do X,Y, or Z with it, Blender compositing noodles, and very occasionally a "proper" GUI-based video editor. I still have the "buy a Mac if you need to" clause, but I haven't had to do that yet, and I doubt I ever will.

BTW, you left out a lot of specifics that I would be interested in reading. Generalities help carry your argument, but reading between the lines, I'm wondering just how it all went down.

If it's a safari...

[bhunachchicken]

... then why not Ubuntu? It's pretty clear it was built for that kind of trip, so should serve you well as you track down those Warty Warthogs, Feisty Fawns, Gutsy Gibbons, Hardy Heron, and Jaunty Jackalopes.

Just watch out for those Breezy Badgers: they love their curries, so you don't wanna stand down wind from them... :)

Okay, someone has to stand up for the PC here

[elrous0]

Go with a quality PC running Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas Pro. This will give you a lot more "bang for your buck" in a nice portable editing setup than a Mac running Final Cut Pro (particularly on a small documentary budget). Don't bother with Linux, it's video editing software is shit (sorry to be harsh, but it's true).

you get whatever the apps need to run on

[alen]

ask the people what apps they plan on using, and build everything around there.

these people are media people, they don't want to remember cryptic commands to do the simplest things

Re:Final Cut Pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Blanket statments like "OS X is the only OS that really works well for pro multimedia" really show your ignorance and are not helpful in the slightest.

I have been producing pro quality multimedia with Windows for 10 years using the Adobe Production suite (premiere, after effects, etc). It's more than capable of producing broadcast and cinematic quality content. I have edited a feature film, numerous shorts, several weddings and "aired" 70+ video podcast episodes using these tools. Never once did I touch a Mac and I found the tool chain to 'really work well".

I too would love Linux to do more in this regard, but the tools just aren't there.

Support whatever your users are used to

[LodCrappo]

They'll be traveling, working hard, dealing with all the crazy problems that come up in a project like this. They don't need the extra hassle of dealing with unfamiliar software just because you think it's neat. Find out what they use now, and make sure they can continue to use it as needed throughout this project.

I actually make documentaries

[boyko.at.netqos]

I actually make travel documentaries - when I was on the road, the most important thing for me was a computer that worked, not the OS.

The OS really shouldn't matter, but I would advise using a Windows machine with the crew. The advantages of the Mac platform are in the editing phase, so the Final Cut Studio advantages aren't a big deal.

The thing is, most of your equipment will work with Windows out of the box - we're talking things like field recorders and video capture. But the biggest aspect of Windows-based PCs that you're going to appreciate on the road is that when it breaks (and I've had a Mac break on me in LAX, and spent 2 weeks in New Zealand without a computer,) you can get a new Windows-based PC quickly and easily, so you don't have to change your workflow up. Since you're cloud computing for most stuff, just make sure that you have Google Gears and you should be fine.

----------

That should answer the original poster's post. That said, I think anyone editing on a Mac these days is missing out on a lot. Yes, Macs are still the standard for AfterEffects and Motion, but Final Cut Pro can't take advantage of multicore processing until you go through Compressor, and they can't take advantage of CUDA applications. That makes editing -slow-.

My personal workflow is Sony Vegas for a render to an uncompressed format, then Badaboom for render to MP4.

Though I'm thinking about getting Adobe Premiere Pro CS4.

Re:I actually make documentaries

[intheshelter]

"you can get a new Windows-based PC quickly and easily"

- And why would it be hard to get a Mac replacement? You know they deliver, don't you?

"Final Cut Pro can't take advantage of multicore processing . . . . That makes editing -slow-."

-What a load of BS. I use FCP all the time and it NEVER blinks. It never acts slow, and that is on a laptop.

And the award for the most FUD filled post belongs to . . . . . boyko.at.netqos!!!

Re:I actually make documentaries

[boyko.at.netqos]

> "- And why would it be hard to get a Mac replacement? You know they deliver, don't you?"

Delivery isn't "quickly" when you're filming a documentary - less so when filming, say, in many of the one-horse towns across the globe. If you're in Auckland or Wellington, New Zealand, you're okay, but if you're in anyplace smaller than, say, Palmerston North, you might be out of luck. (Basically, Dick Smiths does carry the Mac line, but not at all stores, but not at all locations.) I can't imagine trying to find an Apple store in someplace more rural.

Additionally, the "mac tax" may be mythical, but Apple doesn't sell low-end computers; so if you need something quick and don't care about the specs, you can go that one computer store in that one town and come out with a PC for much less than the Macs - lowest priced Apple notebook is $1858NZD ($1120USD) at DickSmith.co.nz - a netbook will cost you $758NZD ($450USD).

As for the speed of FCP; I can tell you this much: I had a MacBookPro 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo system with 4 MB of RAM. I used it to edit high definition footage what was filmed in AVCHD.

Even disabling RT, applying some really basic effects like color correction won't play until you render out that clip. Rendering clips in FCP is slow because it only uses one core; and I find myself having to render constantly so I can see what I'm working on. When rendering the final product, of course, I can use Compressor, which has multicore support, but that really doesn't matter.

I'm currently using Sony Vegas on PC for my workflow - and yes, from a UI standpoint, FCP is better. Tools such as LiveType and Motion are top notch. It's friendlier and easier to use.

But Vegas never prohibited me from seeing what I was working on when I was working on it - it dynamically adjusted resolution and framerate to do so, which means that I can edit once, render once, and be done with the project. The multi-core support helps me render faster.

And of course, by setting processor affinity, I can commit the cardinal sin; have an instance of Vegas rendering on one core, while I edit the next video on the other core.

There is no such thing as a "wrong" workflow, and FCP is rightly lauded as a great choice for filmmakers working in Hollywood. If you had to standardize on a workflow, that's a good one to standardize on. Preferring Vegas doesn't mean I'm FUDding Apple.

But I make short documentaries for the Web and I do it quickly. If I was stuck out in the wilderness and had a computer die on me, but I'm able to save the hard drive, I'd want the computer to be a PC, so I can just shove the old hard drive into the new computer, or put it into an enclosure, and be done with it.

Mainly? Meaning they actually *will* do preview?

[Qbertino]

Mainly? Meaning they actually *will* want to do preview at occasions?
That's a no brainer: Mac OS X.
If they only want to communitacte and use the web, that's a no-brainer aswell: Get some cheap-ass netbooks that are cheap, small, light and don't break that easy.
If you're going into warzones, deserts or rainforests that's also - guess what? - a no-brainer: Get Panasonic Toughbooks. And some solar panels.

Another thing: If you're going on a 18 month tour as the prime IT guy and you have to ask this question I'd actually presume you're maybe the wrong guy for this sort of thing, no?

Find the tools, ignore the OS

[swordgeek]

Here's a general comment: Applications should drive the OS decision, not the other way around. Find the software you want to use--play with it, work with it, and then if you have a choice, look into the OS.

Decades ago, someone mentioned that an OS is kinda like underwear. It should be there, it should provide support, but only the fashion-obsessed really spend much time thinking about it.

What do your users need?

[SSpade]

Your job is not to be an advocate, it's to support your users to the best of your ability. That means steering them towards stuff you know how to support, but doesn't mean pushing them towards your favorite hobby OS when that's not a good match for them.

The most important thing is to support what your users need to do. For creative users, including writers, that means the tool they're familiar with. If they're used to Windows and Windows tools, give them Windows. If they're used to OS X, give 'em a Mac. Either way, give them a usable screen and a good keyboard - writers will likely kill you if their main writing machine has a plasticky 93% size keyboard.

The second most important thing is to make sure that the systems are available and the data is safe. Which makes Windows a PITA to support if you're not familiar with Windows administration (which is what it sounds like).

If it were me, I'd use Macbook Pros running OS X, with VMWare Fusion with unity mode turned on allowing me to run Windows (or Linux, come to that) applications, as though they were native apps. (Don't skimp on RAM). That way the machines can be shared by users who prefer different apps to do what they do, and you can take advantage of either the OS X level stuff or the underlying unix to do backups.

And a couple of cheap netbooks for emergencies, email, throwing in the back of a truck, that sort of thing. Then a bunch of robust, cheap media for ad-hoc backups (USB sticks, CD-Rs).

But I'm not your users. Ask them what apps they need, then work out how best to support them.

Re:Consider an XO if you're really in the muck

[iocat]

What he said, but also... have you tested the google calander in different tme zones simultaneously? In my experience, it blows chunks in the worst possible way. IF people are really going to be travelling around the world, an online system for mail with no local cache might be a really bad idea.

Re:Mac to Edit/Process, Linux to Capture/Store

[Anonymous Coward]

all aspects of hardware and software (not to include editing)

This machine, you should use for editing and processing your video.

Congratulations! You are today's winner of the "I'm so stupid I would fail a second-grade reading comprehension test, but am going to reply anyway" award!

It's posts like this that make me wish I had never found Slashdot.

Re:Final Cut Pro

[MouseR]

You obviously are living in the 90s.

Some of us appreciate cross-dissolved paragraphs in emails.

Re:Final Cut Pro

[Kamokazi]

Yeah, only amateurs use Windows software like this for multimedia.

Be Prepared

[not_hylas( )]

SSpade (above) is correct.

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1238131&cid=28012601

(AND)
You have to be prepared for anything and that usually means the Production Coordinator's computer being hijacked by the DP (Director of Photography) and the Director for an informal "slice and dice" to see how something fades / cuts into another (QuickTime Pro) saving 45 minutes of stuff such as this.

As a former Motion Picture Tech (KeyGrip, DollyGrip) for over 25 years, I'm telling you, you better be prepared - anticipate their next need (hot spares) and make it look easy.

Dont Advocate!

[drolli]

Honestly. I also love Open Source/linux. The biggest service i could do to convince people that this is good was to not advocate - actually i am quite good in scaring people off linux whom i thin kwould not get happy with it- but just make it work at exactly the places where it world best (yes, even my boss, and hard-core windows lover saw a certain advantage after our servers running w/o trouble on cheap HW for several years, whil;e the Novell/NT solution we used before was a pain in the ass).

I guess the task you describe is your job. Your job is not to advocate, but your job is to provide the team with computers. From what you say it is the best to settle on some hw which you can buy (to replace lost/broken ones) around the world - with OS preinstalled to keep you from doing importanty work. So yes, that would be windows. In a bigger city it takes you 15 minutes to get a new, working, installed machine.(DONT come with "yes, i can install Debian in 15 Minutes". ME too, but i wont get the wifi running in 15 minutes if the manufacturer decided the old chipset to be to expensive by 5 cents).

i suggest to carry one wireless AP with you, and maybe a small linux server (laptop), if internal communication involves sharing documents, depending on the requirements. i also suggest you think about backups.

Definitely Mac if you want to get any work done

[ScienceMan]

Let me get this straight - you'll be traveling all over the world, exposed to who knows what networking and virus-prone environments, and don't already know that the Mac is your best starting point?

A Macbook Pro for anyone doing real work (viewing dailies, making storyboard or layout suggestions, doing any ancillary work actually associated with the film); smaller Macbooks for carrying around the set to do story work, check e-mail, etc., and a few minis should give you everything you need in the field. ANyone who needs to run another OS can do it via Parallels or VMWare, etc. (even VirtualBox for free if you want to). Film and Macs go together and this will produce the most comfortable, secure and performant working environment. (Plus, people will actually LIKE their machines and using them!)

f you want to spend your time debugging viruses picked up from hotel networks and doing IT support for obscure Windows problems while you should be working, that of course is your business...

Re:Mac to Edit/Process, Linux to Capture/Store

[Fallingcow]

Blender also has editing capabilities.

They're obtuse as hell and I have no idea why anyone would use them, but they exist.

Re:Battery Life - Windows

[maino82]

My experience has actually been the opposite. With Linux, I swap to disk so infrequently that I have a noticibly longer amount of time which I can use my laptop (about 30 mins, which considering my battery only typically lasts about 2 1/2 hrs is significant to me). On Windows, even when I disable to page file, the OS still seems to access the disk quite a bit and it seems to drain the battery faster as a result.

Why not all 3?

[EvilToiletPaper]

For just 'communications and writing', I would say get a bunch of small netbooks and some extras in case a few go down. You can get quite a bunch of inexpensive netbooks for the cost of just a couple of expensive macbooks

In the field you have to be prepared to handle pretty weird stuff, choose an OS that presents the least obstructions. Use a popular distribution of Linux, you don't want to be in the middle of the Congo and make a satphone call to Microsoft or Apple support :).

Get one or two laptops running MS and OS X in case someone absolutely needs software that only runs on these or if you get a hold of some hardware that only works on one of those

Re:Battery Life - Windows

[doonavin]

"Windows (especially Vista/7) currently has a sizable lead over Linux in this regard"

I will politely disagree with that.

The nature of OS design is usually tradeoffs, therefore what one's strength is another's weakness and vice-versa... in short, use what works for you.

That said; I'm running a 17" widescreen 2Ghz Core2 Duo laptop with dedicated video and I get much better battery life with Linux out of the box than Vista.

Vista would get roughly 2 hrs (aero turned off and in battery savings mode).

Fedora 10 with KDE4 I consistently get about 2:45 without tweaking the default settings.

I've also had the same experience between linux and XP on a previous "desktop replacement" laptop.

Can't speak for Win7 though...

(I know those times are low, but my wife refers to my laptop as "an affront to god"... it's a big fella)

I've found that the main difference is mostly in how much it will scale back. Vista seams to only scale back partially, because it never wants to give the impression of poor performance. Whereas most linux distro's have no problem taking my laptop down to 800mhz if i'm just reading a document.

As with most things OS related; it's a trade-off.

Personally, I don't mind that it scales so far down, but some people can't wait that extra micro-second for the cpu to jump the clockspeed back up when they change gears. To me the battery life difference is worth it.

Just figured I'd share my experience. More facts are always good. Your mileage may vary.

Advise from a Pro that's been there

[fxPPC]

I've done this before. 16 months in se asia. The most important thing is protecting your footage. Using Mac laptops has made the process easy. Apple's ethos is everything Just Works, and nowhere is that more important than on a independent project, where getting a virus, or having windows go on the fritz can bring production to a stand still. There is a reason the industry standardized on the company that can provide an integrated solution from hardware, to OS, to editing suite. We shot almost 150 hours of footage on a dual system: The camera recorded to HDV tapes, plus a FireStore DTE drive simultaneously. We'd mail the master tapes back to the home office, and be able to quickly copy the footage from the FireStore onto our raid (two firewire hd's gaft-taped together setup in a RAID 1) for backup and review (it's important to be able to look back over past footage when you're working over such a long time period). Add in the fact that FireStore lets you log info metadata from a laptop (over bt or 802.11) as footage is being recorded and you have the ability to run a very fast paced but safe and secure production. You may want to also check out Gorilla or EP Scheduling and Budgeting which are Mac/Win only. Good luck!

Need to consider value of Time versus Money

[thtrgremlin]

If you are buying equipment at random and not considering whether or not is is compatible, I would completely agree, but with so many Linux HCL web sites out there, "lack of support" is unlikely to be a barrier. Linux tends to have best support for the highest quality equipment, and particularly great legacy equipment no longer supported by other systems. But if one is serious about picking good equipment and are not presently tied down with any vendor lock-in, then it is all a matter of personal preference.

If you want the highest quality equipment, and time is far more precious than money, I'd say Mac. If you are looking for most economical and you have a small staff that is open minded to learning, I'd say look at the features available among Linux A/V Software and see if it will meet your needs, and check the documentation to ensure that you don't need to be a Linux guru to understand it. Next, Check the Linux HCL (Hardware Compatibility List) for the best reviews, then find what equipment is the cheapest that meets all your needs. Word of warning, always look at the pros and cons and see which ones meet your bottom line. Some well reviewed stuff may be missing an "minor" feature you need, and sometimes poorly reviewed devices are rated as such because they are missing some non-critical "major" feature, like only have one supported output. If that output type meets your needs, who cares which inferior transfer method isn't supported. I am sure other people will have good arguments for Windows and Mac, so I will leave that to them, but if you are seriously considering Linux, I would highly recommend checking out and having this same discussion at the Ubuntu Multimedia & Video forum and the Multimedia Production forum.

Mitigating stresses of bottom-up design

[thtrgremlin]

my experience is that on FOSS there's too much time spent working with tools than using tools to do the work

I have had similar experience in that there are always way more options and ways of doing or learning things that you can spend all your time figuring it out and get nothing done. Discipline in outlining what do you need to know to get the job done right is really a challenge, and I think that Apple thrives to give you the best options with the least amount of worry at what seems to be the cost of unnecessary alternatives. Apple is really great at simplifying the top down approach of "What can the software do?", "Which features are going to be most useful to my project?", "How do I go about implementing them?" steps. Apple makes that a very narrow and logical path to follow, and teaches you stuff along the way. If you try to take the same approach with Linux/OSS, you will find you can spend all the time in the world reading through documentation of many pieces of software with all kind of features that can often spark the imagination, but can make you feel dizzyingly hopeless.

When I approach a major project, I will designate a limited amount of time to just surf through what is available to get things started planning wise, then totally forget forget it and start WRITING DOWN what specific tasks will need to be completed at each stage of development. Next, what is the best tool for completing that task, and evaluate how well I know the tool, and how much time may be necessary to learn a good tool I have not used before. Next, find the smallest possible example that would allow you to test a "proof of concept" and see if it is possible to take some info/footage/whatever and move it through each of the stages to a quality level of completion without having to mix steps, go backwards, or whatever. Then people can be broken into teams, you can show them what they are going to get footage/info wise, the tools they are going to get, how they are going to use them, and who to pass it onto when it is finished.

Typical business organization / delegation type stuff, I just think it really needs to be pointed out that Linux is by design aggressively in support of the bottom-up engineering principle and it is easy to see that ignoring that reality can manifest itself as a load of nightmares.