Slashdot Mirror
Unmasking Blog Commenters Not a Huge Threat To Freedom
After writing that a Virginia court made an error in saying that spoofing an IP address in e-mail headers was analogous to using a "pseudonym," and that an Ontario court was wrong in saying that an IP address could be subpoenaed by a court because it was no more secret than personal information like a "home address," I think that the latest court ruling against online anonymity — an Illinois judge ordering a newspaper to reveal the identities of people who posted comments on its blog — is not as big of a threat to online privacy, and is not apparently based on any misconceptions about how the Internet works. However, the ruling has the potential to frighten bloggers more than necessary (as well as possibly set a bad precedent for future courts if they don't read the decision closely enough) because the ruling uses the word "bloggers" repeatedly to refer to what everyone else calls "blog commenters."
Police had asked the Alton Telegraph to reveal the identities of five people who had posted comments in the newspaper's blog which indicated they might have knowledge relevant to an ongoing murder investigation. The newspaper sued to avoid being forced to hand over the commenters' identities, saying that they were "news sources" protected under Illinois's newspaper shield law. Judge Richard Tognarelli ruled that blog commenters did not count as "sources" under the shield law, and allowed the police to go forward in obtaining the identity of two of the commenters, but denied the request to unmask three others, on the grounds that those commenters did not appear to have information relevant to the case.
To consider the relevant questions separately:
Is this legally correct?
Every time I raise a question like this, it provokes the ire of law students and lawyers who say that judges are the real experts on what is legally correct, and it's not appropriate for lay people to comment. As I never tire of saying, if judges are really "experts" in a sense that lay people are not, then it should be possible to put 10 judges in separate rooms, present them with the same facts of the same case, and have most of them independently come to the same conclusion about the correct answer, with a higher degree of accuracy than lay people would be able to reach the same conclusion. If this is not the case, then the judges are not playing the role of "experts" so much as "designated decision-makers," and it's perfectly fair for lay people to analyze whether the judges' reasoning appears correct.
In this case, the judge simply said that blog commenters are not news "sources" in the sense described by the law. The text of the shield law (735 ILCS 5/8-901) defines a "source" as "the person or means from or through which the news or information was obtained." Now, if you were to parse this super-literally, then the blog commenters could be considered "sources" because they are posting "information" which can be "obtained" by the reporters who later go back and read through the blog comments. But if you were to be that literal about it, then anybody who publishes "information" anywhere at all, including someone who posts a timetable of train departure times on their Web page, could be considered a "source" for information used by a reporter. Clearly the legislature did not intend for the term "source" to include all people who publish information anywhere under the sun (just because that information is technically available to reporters just like it's available to everyone else), or they would have said so. So it seems reasonable to assume that when the law refers to sources from whom reporters "obtain information," it refers to the way in which reporters normally obtain information in their role as reporters obtaining information from sources — that is, the source privately communicating with a reporter with some expectation of anonymity, hoping the reporter can use the information provided for research on a future story. Blog commenters do not fit that definition since (a) they are posting publicly, and (b) they are responding to a story that has already been written.
The judge also noted that the shield law is not absolute, and even for individuals who are considered "sources" under the law, their interest in maintaining anonymity has to be weighed against the importance of the information being sought. Judge Tognarelli wrote, "The Telegraph has an interest in protecting its online blogger's identities while the State has an interest in prosecuting someone who has allegedly murdered a child." That sounded to me like sarcasm on first reading, but actually I think he's just being logically rigorous.
So in this case, I think that you really could probably put 10 different judges in separate rooms and present them with the same facts and arguments, and have most of them (although probably not an overwhelming majority) come to the same conclusion. On the other hand, I would bet that you could ask 10 reasonably smart lay people to analyze the case, and about the same proportion of them would come to the same conclusion as well.
Is this logically correct?
By that I mean, could the arguments made in this ruling be extended to a conclusion that is clearly absurd?
Sometimes a ruling can be apparently in line with the law, but would have implications that would be absurd if carried only one step further. For example, in one of my spam cases in Small Claims court where I brought a case on behalf of Peacefire as a Washington corporation that I owned, a judge ruled that I couldn't represent Peacefire because the corporation was a separate legal entity. This would seem to be in line with the legal principle that only lawyers who are licensed to practice law are allowed to represent entities other than themselves; non-lawyers can only represent themselves. But carried one step further, the same principle leads to a conclusion that makes no sense: If corporations cannot be represented in Small Claims court by their owners, then since lawyers are not allowed in Small Claims court either, the logical conclusion would be that corporations cannot be represented by anybody in Small Claims court. By that logic, I (as an individual) could sue a corporation for any reason, and since nobody would be allowed to defend the case, I would have to win by default! Since that conclusion is obviously absurd, at least one of those two rules (the rule against lawyers in Small Claims, or the rule against people in Small Claims representing entities other than themselves) would have to be relaxed, and in the interests of keeping costs down, it makes more sense to let individuals represent corporations that they own. This is probably why every other judge so far has made the opposite ruling, that I am allowed to represent a corporation in Small Claims court if I'm the owner.
Does Judge Tognarelli's ruling lead to any absurd conclusions? I don't think so. In fact, the opposite conclusion could have led to an absurd result, if the judge had ruled that commenters posting on the newspaper's blog could seek protection as "news sources." If blog commenters were protected for comments they posted on the newspaper's blog, why shouldn't they be protected for comments they post on their own Web site somewhere else, since the two situations are logically equivalent? In both cases, you're speaking to the entire world, not providing information privately to a reporter. By extension, anybody who says anything, anywhere, at any time, would be protected as a "news source" if a reporter could later find a record of what that person said. While there are possibly merits to that idea — that all anonymous speakers should be protected from being unmasked — it's clearly not what the legislature meant, since they were legislating protection for "sources," not "everybody."
When the judge said "bloggers," did he mean "bloggers"?
No. This is the biggest flaw in what otherwise appears to be a logically and technically literate ruling: The court repeatedly used "bloggers" to refer to blog commenters:
"The subpoena seeks identifying information for bloggers who voluntarily left comments on the website..."
"Here, it is clear that the 'reporter' did not use any information from the bloggers..."
"The Telegraph has an interest in protecting its online blogger's identities..."
That's fine as long as everybody understands what the judge really meant. However, if an actual blogger — one who publishes quasi-news articles on a blog and could be considered a reporter in the traditional sense — ever has to use the court system to protect their identity from being unmasked, there is a danger that a court could cite the current case as precedent and say that "bloggers don't count as news sources." I would hope that a future court would read the current decision carefully enough to realize that it refers to blog commenters and not actual bloggers, but there's no guarantee.
Is this bad for civil liberties?
It depends. I think that all the court really said was that while bona fide news sources are protected under the shield law, the shield law does not apply to all people who post public information that might potentially be used for a news story someday. That was already the de facto legal situation that most of us were in — if you post something in a public forum that makes the police think you have information that could be relevant to the prosecution of a crime, they can probably get a court to unmask your identity with a subpoena.
It may be tempting to think that courts should interpret the shield law more broadly, but be careful what you wish for — if the shield law got diluted to the point where it applied to everybody, then that increases the chances that courts would carve out more exceptions to it or the legislature would rescind it, since neither the courts nor the legislature generally think that everybody deserves legally guaranteed anonymity all of the time.
If you do think that everybody — or, at least, you — deserves guaranteed anonymity for online postings, you can use tools like Tor to make your identity completely untraceable. I would guess that none of the blog commenters in this case went to that trouble.
In fact, one of the two commenters whose identity was ordered unmasked by the court, used the handle "mrssully." What if that turns out to be a woman whose last name is Sully, and who could have been trivially identified if the police had called the murder defendants' friends and acquaintances and asked, "Hey, who do you think 'Mrs. Sully' is?" The court ruling said that "the Sheriff's Office contacted 117 different individuals regarding the incident" and that "it would be a very expensive and a 'monumental task' to re-interview all of those witnesses." To re-interview all of them, yes. But it would not be a monumental task to have a junior member of the police force call up each of the 117 phone numbers for the witnesses and leave a message saying, "Hey, do you know a 'Mrs. Sully' who is connected to the defendant?" If someone calls back and says Yes, then maybe you've found who you're looking for; if not, then you've only wasted about two hours trying (at sixty seconds per phone number), so go ahead with the subpoena. If it turns out that "Mrs. Sully" is someone who could have been found in this way, then as a taxpayer and as someone who supports law enforcement at least insofar as they're conducting murder investigations, I might reasonably ask why the police didn't do that first.
It would be great if Slashdot had a new section called editorial, so the Staff and their frequent contributors could post op-ed pieces like this one. It would be better categorized, separating actual news from opinion, and give users the option to read or disregard it.
Finally, I'll be able to give that f-tard a piece of my mind.
Oh. Shit. I have seen the enemy...and he is us.
-AC
I always post from random free access points, using a wireless nic I bought with cash!
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
People have the right to anonymous free speech. Without that right, people can more easily harass the speakers into silence. And in this case, isn't this quite likely what is being sought?
My girlfriend lives in a big apartment building with a really crappy wireless router for the tenants in the basement, we're on the 4th floor. Currently we're using some wireless connection from a nearby home, and I can't imagine that I'm the only person in the world doing this. Then there are people who browse through a proxy. Did anyone tell them that the IP address of a blog commenter is quite useless?
That's nothing!
I aggregate all my neighbours wifi (open or otherwise) into one large, fault tolerant pipe.
Bennett, I'm sure you have some nice insight into things, but you've got to change your writing style if you want to communicate your ideas effectively to more people.
Your sentences are too long, with too many interwoven clauses. If you need to write a 60-word sentence with twelve clauses, you'd probably benefit from reorganizing your thoughts. This makes it easier for people to follow what you're writing.
You could also consider the utility of lists. They work very well for clear communication when many concepts are being discussed.
In short, Hemingway is a poor model for clear writing, especially when writing non-fiction. Please consider reading newspaper editorials and magazine articles for some insight into how to communicate ideas easily and effectively. You may also want to consider taking a business writing class, or joining an online writing group -- writing groups are great for getting critiques on style.
Final note: I'm by no means the best writer in the world. I hope you take this post as I've intended it, as helpful advice to make it easier for you to communicate your ideas.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Free Speech is not anonymous speech. Just because you have the right to say whatever you want, with some caveats, doesn't mean you, at any point, are granted the protected right of being anonymous. You are currently at liberty to say what you want anonymously, but as with all liberties, it is not guaranteed by the Constitution.
Ah, yes. It's the "My brother was playing on my account! Honest!", defense.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I do see what you're saying, and it has some merit. But if they can narrow down a poster to an apartment building, they can probably further narrow it to a person in that building. It would depend on the particular case in question. But as a general rule....
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
Compelling a person to speak against his will is no different from and equally obscene as prohibiting a person from speaking. You should fight it at every turn. I will grant that a civilized person will come forward, but under today's rules it's not always the best thing. *No good deed goes unpunished...*
Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
The 14th Amendment to the Constitution provides "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws". This means to me that we are all equal and that a chosen profession does not grant anyone any additional rights than those not of the profession. (Licenses, like the BAR, MD, etc not withstanding. We're not talking about the ability to practice law or write a prescription, but rather protection of rights)
Journalists have been getting unequal protection for some time. We need to extend those "rights" to everyone if we are to live in a free society.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I think the distinction is artificial and no policy should legitimize such a distinction. A lot of code running today just happens to index, search, and present their uploaded text differently (and largely for promotional and styling reasons), but other than that, bloggers and commentators are really doing the same thing. They're writing stuff in the hopes that someone reads it.
Shield laws shouldn't treat 'em differently. Actually, shield laws shouldn't treat any person's speech differently than anyone else's. A free press is damned important, and the one of the best ways to protect it is to remember that it is not a privilege; it's a right. The government isn't doing reporters a favor by shielding their sources; it is doing what it necessary to keep the 1st Amendment functional. If it's necessary to do that for professional reporters, then it's necessary to do that for everyone. Professional bloggers and kooks with too much time on their hands, should be legal equals.
If you have a law that sees them as different, then you have an injustice. Either the government is screwing some little guy, or the government just did a favor to the "big" guy and now can expect some integrity-compromising payback for it.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I wish this had been posted in the evening so I could study it. For now, here's a very brief dissent:
I feel B. H. is inaccurate, and that this is a threat to liberties. My basic reason is that laws have a terrible tendency to "grow" uses lately, and therefore anything with the words "unmask ____ is not a threat" is too abusable precisely because of the posters complaining about his writing style.
P.S. Some/Many News rags are creating the absolute worst model to follow. "Let's communicate the wrong interpretation nice and crispy!" (Deliberate grammar spike there.)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
As I never tire of saying, if judges are really "experts" in a sense that lay people are not, then it should be possible to put 10 judges in separate rooms, present them with the same facts of the same case, and have most of them independently come to the same conclusion about the correct answer, with a higher degree of accuracy than lay people would be able to reach the same conclusion.
That is what happens with judges. They agree on almost everything. You have significant selection bias because the /. crowd mostly only pays attention to cases at the nexus of technology and constitutional rights. If /. paid attention to "developments" in Delaware corporation and agency jurisprudence, you'd come to quite the opposite conclusion. Like any newly-developing field, tech law has some dispute about how to approach it. Like any philosophical field, con law has some dispute about how to approach it. Put the two together, and yes, you will find wildly divergent opinions among the judiciary, but that's only because you're talking about the frontier of an area.
By your logic, there's no such thing as a computer science expert, because Andrew Tanenbaum would have failed Linus Torvalds for designing a monolithic kernel. Dissent and difference are key in most fields; they are not an indication that expertise in such a field doesn't exist. Remember that Einstein never bought into a lot of the quantum hubbub ("god does not play dice with the cosmos," etc.).
Let's say you had a case where two gay people were barged in on the police while they were having sex, and prosecuted under a no-dirty-sex statute that was never applied to straight people. If you presented those facts to 10 (or, let's say 9) judges, and each of the judges was either a living constitutionalist, or a textualist/judicial minimalist, or an originalist, you'd get three genres of answer.
The first group would say that there's a substantive component of the due process clause which recognizes rights fundamental to ordered liberty, and the right to private consensual conduct is one of those rights. The second group would say that the statute was applied unconstitutionally because it applied to only one group and not another, in clear violation of the text of the equal protection clause. The third would say that private gay sex is not a fundamental right recognized by the framers of the constitution or the fourteenth amendment.
Surprise surprise, that's exactly what happens.
tl;dr version: the judiciary as a whole is consistent, and even on the frontiers, where it isn't, individual schools of thought are consistent.
The difference is between a published item and a source
Sources are shielded, publishers are not
I cannot sue a publishers source, because they do not have to reveal who they are, but I can sue the publisher....
Is a blog post/comment a source, when everyone can read it (and be defamed by it)
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
"The Telegraph has an interest in protecting its online blogger's identities while the State has an interest in prosecuting someone who has allegedly murdered a child." That sounded to me like sarcasm on first reading, but actually I think he's just being logically rigorous."
This is not so logically rigorous. The ruling was whether a subpoena could be used to identify "bloggers" not a search warrant. In the statement above, clearly a search warrant could be sought to gain access to records. Much more logically rigorous, and more to the point on how the law would be used, is a situation where a search warrant can not be obtained (because no probable cause exists). The, not perfect mind you, but more logically rigorous evaluation should be "The Telegraph has an interest in protecting its online blogger's identities while the State has an interest in identifying potential threats to society."
How would you like to find yourself on a no fly list because of some rant you posted on a political site? Better yet, would you begin to hesitate making such a rant after a number of your fellow "bloggers" found themselves on a no fly list?
No comment.
A better question is: why is Slashdot giving this guy a soapbox in the first place? He's really not got a lot of insight into the legal stuff. Take for example, his "Judge Rules That I Own Slashdot" piece, where not only he proceeds to blame the judge for his own very badly argued case, but remains completely oblivious throughout to the flaws in his argument.
For example, Haselton consistently expects that the judge must accept his unsubstantiated statements about the facts of the case as true, and dismiss the spammer's retorts as false. He never stops to notice that the judge is obligated to treat Haselton's unsubstantiated truths the same as the spammer's unsubstantiated falsehoods. No, he just thinks that he ought to win, and if the judge doesn't let him win, it must be because the judge is stupid. (And of course, this tells you what Haselton's full paragraph of hatin' on the legal profession in the present piece comes down to.)
And more generally, what's the deal with Slashdot and "frequent" contributors à la Haselton, the late Piquepaille, or that other guy whose name I forgot? Do they pay Slashdot for increased access? Are they folks who met Malda on a convention, drank him under the table, and got him to sign some stuff?
Are you adequate?
Wow. I don't know what you just said, but I admire your insanity.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Every time I raise a question like this, it provokes the ire of law students and lawyers who say that judges are the real experts on what is legally correct, and it's not appropriate for lay people to comment.
Law students are just as arrogant as the members of the press! Judges all know best? Remember that when one rules against your argument, f-tard!
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
Journalistic Integrity? Is there such a thing any more?
What is the consequence if the law treats any source of information for a reporter as a source? It just means the reporter can't be compelled to answer "Where did you get that information" all the time, including if the answer is, "I got it from a web search."
Now in most cases a reporter would answer the question, but the law simply gives them the option not to ask. It may be that the commenter on the blog is *also* a secret source who decided to make a public comment. There are other reasons.
I see no harm in saying that anything is a source, because it doesn't affect what people do, just what the reporter can be compelled to reveal.
And is it not useful for a journalist site to be able to say, "comments on this blog are anonymous and we can't be compelled to give you up" if the site wishes to? At to have them be able to back that up? Must the protected source information only come via a secret meeting?
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
You turn up at a rally.
They have your name address and all other information that identifies you. And where you work falls out from that automatically.
You are no longer anonymous.
The rally you go to is, for example, the G20 protests.
Your CEO is told he has a criminal protester who may want to see the business fail (a la Unabomber stylee).
You are sacked.
So how do you go to the next one?
Knowing this scenario *could* happen, you don't go to the rally.
Now, if you'd be anonymous, you would not be harassed and you'd know it. So you go to the rally.
See "Chilling effect".
Jesus, is this the same group of people who threw over a tyranical government a few scant hundreds of years ago?
Seems like a load of pussies now live there.
After all, if there's no downside to losing anonymity, why not let that mob boss know you're going to testify against him next month...
Also, aren't state secrets anonymous wordings? At least in general: names are removed if at all possible.
This is no different than a being able to subpoena a newspaper's anonymous sources. Yes, there are certain protections, but it's a Judge who ultimately makes the call on whether the source is revealed.
We could be seeing the rise of journalistic integrity on the internet, not the death of it. Imagine if everyone was ACTUALLY responsible for what they say, and could be sued for libel. What a horrible world we would be living in.
I don't know anything about the guy, but reading this was a nice mental exercise in "follow the logic," and I enjoyed it. Why the hate?
That which does not kill us makes us... st
The lawyers' position is not that the judges are the "experts," it's that the judges are the AUTHORITIES on the subject. The only thing lawyers have to sell, that's valuable, is an ability to REMEMBER WHAT JUDGES HAVE SAID IN THE PAST, to INFLUENCE WHAT JUDGES SAY IN THE PRESENT, and to PREDICT WHAT JUDGES WILL SAY IN THE FUTURE.
You, and me, and the guy behind the tree all can have our own opinions on what's "legally correct."
And if those opinions don't turn out to square with what the judge does, then those opinions have no value or purpose. No one will pay for them, no one will listen to them, basically nobody cares what you, personally, think.
The law is not philosophy. Thinking about it is not an end in itself.
I agree that anonymity is essential in order for people to be able to speak freely, but it's foolish to post information that could link you to any particular IRL situation.
If it turns out that "Mrs. Sully" is someone who could have been found in this way, then as a taxpayer and as someone who supports law enforcement at least insofar as they're conducting murder investigations, I might reasonably ask why the police didn't do that first.
This reminds me of two favorite lines by Orac from Blakes 7:
And of course this from Babylon 5:
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?