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Russia To Save Its ISS Modules
jamax writes "According to the BBC, 'Russia is making plans to detach and fly away its parts of the International Space Station when the time comes to de-orbit the rest of the outpost. ... To facilitate the plan, RKK Energia, the country's main ISS contractor, has already started developing a special node module for the Russian segment, which will double as the cornerstone of the future station. ... Unlike many Nasa and European space officials, Russian engineers are confident that even after two decades in orbit, their modules would be in good enough shape to form the basis of a new space station. "We flew on Mir for 15 years and accumulated colossal experience in extending the service life (of such a vehicle)," said a senior Russian official at RKK Energia...' Is Russia the last country where engineers are not (yet) forced by corporations to intentionally produce designs that fail two days after warranty expires? There used to be a lot of equipment manufactured by various countries (Germany is the first one that comes to mind) that lasted virtually forever — old cars or weapons systems, but one rarely sees anything of the sort these days."
In college, I wrote a web browser. It was fully functional and supported everything that IE supported at that time. My professor was amazed. Not only because I was able to implement such a complicated thing in VB, but also in that I was able to do it over the weekend.
I got an A, but I never told anyone the secret. Now, years after I graduated, I can divulge my methods. Or, should I say *heh heh heh* Microsoft's methods. I simply reused Microsoft's IE COM component and wrapped it in a slick VB shell. Code reuse, not only at the code level, but at the binary level!
So in the real world, it also makes sense to reuse technology and existing parts rather than rebuild them from scratch. Especially so for space-based things that require huge investment per kilogram just to get them up there. And by reusing older parts, we can standardize on the interfaces and create Lego-like systems that can easily work together instead of needing custom parts every time.
The only thing I really worry about is all that Russian fungus.
http://www.space.com/news/spacestation/space_fungus_000727.html
Germany is the first one that comes to mind) that lasted virtually forever -- old cars or weapons systems
As the owner of a rare, older Audi, I find this concept hilarious. A number of components last just about the warranty period- a number of solenoid valves, for example. Numerous hoses break (turbocharged engine- the hoses split and leak.) The radiator end-caps (and thus all the fittings) were of a plastic that broke after a couple of years. Alternators last a few years tops because of their location and cooling design (they are fed air straight through the bumper, so lots of water and crap.) BMW and Mercedes largely had the same issues as they were all being fed the same shit by Bosch and others. Don't be fooled: automotive companies contract out or shop off the shelf at major supplies like Bosch. The climate control and seat controls in my car are straight out of the AC/Delco parts bin, amusingly enough...despite it being an Audi.
Manual transmissions and differentials? Absolutely. The engine block/valvetrain/internals/exhaust, you got it. The (hot-dipped-galvanized) body? Yes. Most of the interior electrics? Yup. All relatively bulletproof and will last longer than you want to keep the car.
Ask B5 A4/S4 owners about their driver information display or ABS modules. Or front suspension links on the original A4...
Please help metamoderate.
Many Russian/Soviet era military radios were tube type with regenerative receivers. They were supposedly designed so they would continue to work after an EMP. The reality was that they didn't have access to transistor patents, and tube factories provided jobs. The radios worked very well until the tubes went bad. As long as you looked at tubes as a disposable item, like a battery, you could say that they were made much better than the US equivalent. However, in reality, the silicon based radios were far superior in both function and reliability, and EMP hardened systems were developed, nullifying the tube's main advantage. My dad, a radio collector, has a Zenith Royal 500-D that has never had anything done other than replace batteries that still works as it did in 1955. There are almost no tube radios of that era that have maintained the stability of even those early transistor sets.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
The problem is that orbits aren't permanent. There are faint traces of atmosphere, micrometeor impacts, lentz/faraday deceleration (as an object travels through the Earth's magnetic field, electrical currents form in the metal components which produce a magnetic field that is in the opposite direction). Because of all of these effects, satellites, and the space station itself, all have station keeping rockets. These need to be refuelled every once in a while. So, it's not as if you could just leave the ISS unattended. It will come down.
Besides, why not leave it where it is? It's not like it's in the way or anything. Boosting it to a higher orbit will be an expensive undertaking, and will add to the cost of resupply missions.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
It's possible to design much electronics to last a long time. I'd say that 95% of the reliability comes from not using wet electrolytic capacitors, which dry out with heat x time. The reliable test equipment I have from the 60s and 70s uses solid tantalum caps with a very long service life. And my mil-supplied, 50's built, tubes only, up to 500V variable voltage bench supplies use oil/paper caps and work perfectly after 50 years.
On a long enough scale, no, no orbits are permanent. However, if you get above 3-400 miles or so orbital lifetimes start heading up into centuries. Above a thousand miles of so, millenia.
He's talking about after the station is shut down.
Loserboy nerd, you know nothing about firearms. The AKs are no timeless, they're cheap mass-produced weapons that tolerate some greater measure of mistreatment before giving up the ghost, but an AK will break down. It will not last decades as better weapons like the Swiss SG510 and SG550 series do. They are way more expensive but can easily last a couple of lifetimes before needing some repair. Even then, it only takes some work by a gunsmith to make them work like they were new. Why, there are some 1930 issue Schmidt-Rubin rifles that work like charm after almost 80 years of service. More or less the same can be said with German weapons.
Russian stuff is not built to last, it's built to work without frills.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Neither. The joinery on an Ethan Allan piece is dodgy, and while the wood is better than you'll find at Walmart - it's still cheap crap wood. While the finish is lacquer, it's cheap lacquer sprayed on in as thin a coat as possible. Etc... Etc...
Ethan Allen (and other such places) make a great show of their quality, but for show is all it is. Down underneath (where the uneducated/average consumer won't notice it) it's as cheap as they can get away with. But they sure *look* impressively high quality.
And what good will replacing the cans do when all the support systems on the trusses and the solar panels wear out?
And yes, the solar panels will wear out - both due to mechanical wear on the rotary joints (without which you can't keep the panels aligned for max power output and minimal drag), and radiation damage to the cells themselves.
And decreasing the life of the ISS appreciably and/or increasing maintenance costs significantly. Large lightweight modules means a low ballistic coefficient, which means increased drag and increased effects from drag. The station will slow down and drop into a lower orbit faster than currently, meaning it needs reboost more often.
The vacuum in LEO is far from perfect, and at the speeds involved you will have small (but significant) amounts of aerodynamic drag. This not only slows the station, but torques it (affecting it's attitude) as well. The additional modules proposed by the OP could produce sufficient torque to overcome the ISS's ability to maintain attitude.
I didn't forget 'em. I just left 'em out to keep things simple.
So they just let it sit around on the ground for 15 years? The Zvezda module didn't launch until 2000. I could buy "designed in the '80s", but "constructed in the '80s" somewhat incromulent.
Odds are, there won't even be an attempt.
Aren't you just mister Optimist
As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
Collisions among the scrap rapidly scatter it out to make a mess of all the useful orbits, and it starts breaking stuff that we'd prefer to be unbroken.
Here is a better graph. At 800km up your orbit only lasts 200-300 years. You'd need another couple hundred kilometers before you get to the thousands of years realm.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!