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Australian Government Backing Down On Censorship

Combat Wombat sends the news that the government in Australia has begun waffling on whether country-wide Internet censorship will be mandatory. "The Rudd Government has indicated that it may back away from its mandatory Internet filtering plan. Communications Minister Stephen Conroy today told a Senate estimates committee that the filtering scheme could be implemented by a voluntary industry code. ... [The shadow communications minister] said he had never heard of a voluntary mandatory system. ... Senator Conroy's statement is a departure from the internet filtering policy Labor took into the October 2007 election to make it mandatory for ISPs to block offensive and illegal content." The censorship plan, which has been called "worse than Iran," was bypassed even before trials started. A minister's defection may have effectively blocked any chance of implementation.

27 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. !victory by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Keeping back dumb censorship plans, in otherwise democratic countries, is an eternal struggle.

    1. Re:!victory by qpawn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. There was no need for it in the first place. Sometimes politics is like when you dangle a person over a cliff, but then pull them back up and act like the hero.

    2. Re:!victory by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Keeping our civil rights, in otherwise democratic countries, is an eternal struggle.

      Fixed that for you. I don't think anyone can look at the "War on Drugs", gun control or just the expansion of Government in general and say that it's only free speech that we need to worry about.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:!victory by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sometimes politics is like when you dangle a person over a cliff, but then pull them back up and act like the hero.

      Reminds me of the old joke about "moderate" Democrats and Republicans:

      A moderate is someone who throws you a ten foot rope when you are fifteen feet offshore and later tells all of his friends that he went more than halfway.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:!victory by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, yeah ... if you can't be bothered to swim 5 feet to safety, why should you live?

      :-)

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    5. Re:!victory by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good analogy...note that Obama considers himself a moderate - and his actions generally match. People are drowning 15ft. away on both sides of the sandbar he's on and he's not willing to use more than 10ft. of rope, even on those who voted for him.

      Don't mod me Flamebait, I expected more of him too, But here we are and there's the ACTA agreement - a textbook example of corruption ("Corporate Lobbying" as they call it nowadays) and policy laundering; Guantanamo acting as a handy distraction while other "secret" prisons remain open, an Iraq deadline that he only used 10ft. of rope on, the list goes on...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    6. Re:!victory by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do you think a non-expanding government is a fundamental human right?

      Because an expanded government starts to stick it's nose into things that should be outside of it's mandate. A good example would be policies designed to protect us from ourselves. Seat belt laws, vice taxes on tobacco/booze, obesity taxes, laws that criminalize you if you put certain substances into your body, etc, etc, etc.

      We are supposed to be citizens, not children that need to be fussed over to make sure we are taking good care of ourselves. As far as I'm concerned if my behaviors harm no one but myself they really aren't any business of the Government. And please don't give me some bullshit rationalization like "obesity drives up costs for everyone" -- that's only true when government forces "charity" down our throats and I personally want no part of "charity" that comes with strings attached.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:!victory by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was also sorely disappointed when the point of closing guantanomo became divorced from ending indefinite imprisonment.

      To think that there would be anything but indefinite imprisonment was pretty naive. Prisoners of War don't have habeas corpus rights and it's generally accepted that they will remain prisoners for the duration of hostilities.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:!victory by fractoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Suspected terrorists are not prisoners of war. The "war on terror" is a fabrication which can be extended indefinitely as long as there is one nutjob on the planet who has the United States in their sights.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  2. I laugh at politics by Sparx139 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's so funny to watch a government make a huge mistake, and then try to back down from the decision without saying "sorry guys, we screwed up"

    --
    Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
    1. Re:I laugh at politics by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Make no mistake, this was all about lining the pockets of the companies that were involved, nothing else.

      How could they not know this would fail? Fiasco was written all over it.

      Canada had the gun registry that failed miserably. It was supposed to cost about $120mil, but ended up costing the (now poor) tax payers $2 billion. Yep. 2. Billion.

      My question is - who got paid...someone did...a lot. Every man, woman and child alive today would have to register two guns for this money to be recuperated.

      The same can be found in any government large enough to force tax collection, but the obviousness of it really bothers me.

    2. Re:I laugh at politics by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not picking on you personally but the average slashdotter is pretty gullible when it comes to machiavellian politics. This was no mistake, politicians often adopt a cause in order to kill it. Conroy deliberately killed the trails and legislation by including Fielding's anti-abortion supporters on the blacklist. I and many other Aussies predicted this outcome, not because we are particularly astute, mearly because we saw the same thing happen with the last government.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:I laugh at politics by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Canada had the gun registry that failed miserably [wikipedia.org]. It was supposed to cost about $120mil, but ended up costing the (now poor) tax payers $2 billion. Yep. 2. Billion.

      Had as in past tense? I thought it was still around?

      Can't say that I'm really surprised. New York State has CoBIS, a program to collect fired brass from all handguns to enter into a ballistic databank. This program has had numerous cost overruns and has solved zero crimes since introduction. So naturally our fearless leaders in Albany want to expand it to cover more types of firearms......

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  3. Who didn't see this coming? by rastilin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You knew it would happen.
    I knew it would happen.
    Things that live under rocks on the floor of the Pacific Ocean knew it would happen.


    Something like this won't get off the ground as long as there are people willing to fight against it, and we've got no shortage of those around here.

    --
    How do you kill that which has no life?
    1. Re:Who didn't see this coming? by kestasjk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You knew it would happen.

      I knew it would happen.

      Things that live under rocks on the floor of the Pacific Ocean knew it would happen.


      Something like this won't get off the ground as long as there are people willing to fight against it, and we've got no shortage of those around here.

      Not really.. It has been very close to getting through, even recently there was a TV show about it and it gave a definite impression of an idea which is unpopular but will go through.

      Remember it was (I think still is?) actually implemented on several small ISPs, and I won't be happy until I hear a definitive no; watered down filtering isn't a victory, an opt-out clause isn't a victory, and it could still well end up that way.

      Also I don't know about "people willing to fight it" being the real reason. In the TV show debate about the internet filter (and in mainstream online news forums) the audience were largely in favor of censorship, but it was the glaring impracticality that swung it slightly in the opposition's favor.
      Maybe the debate audience was a biased sample, but there really wasn't (and isn't) the fierce opposition to the filter that would make a senator do a U-turn.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    2. Re:Who didn't see this coming? by __aaxwdb6741 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The day public mass media reports anything even close to reality will be a cold one in hell.

      Don't assume that a "TV show debate" represents anything even close to reality.

    3. Re:Who didn't see this coming? by AnalPerfume · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Things that live under rocks on the floor of the Pacific Ocean knew it would happen"

      Citation required. How many were polled, what was the species make up and how many were just sheltering from predators when the clipboard people came to call and were just answering the questions to avoid drawing the "outsider" tag and being forced outside?

  4. Bad summary: no minister's defection by Rizzer · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary says "A minister's defection may have effectively blocked any chance of implementation."

    But that link refers to Senator Nick Xenophon. He is an independent senator, not a Minister in the government.

    1. Re:Bad summary: no minister's defection by MichaelSmith · · Score: 5, Informative

      Xenophon used to support the filter but he withdrew support some time ago.

  5. Balance of Power by novakreo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is why Westminster-style governments should never have a senate majority.

    --
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
  6. Yeah, great... try that in the UK by tygerstripes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm really pleased to read this story, but sadly I think the only reason this "backing down" has come about is because the politicians in question were so bare-faced and blunt with the proposals in the first place. I suspect that has a lot to do with the character and nature of Australians in general. I may get criticised for stereotyping, but most Australians of my acquaintance take pride in the blunt honesty prevalent in their culture, so I don't think I'm out of line.

    Unfortunately this culture of an honest (if ineffective and ill-considered) approach to government implementation of web-filtering - and indeed of all privacy-crushing legislation - is rather rarer elsewhere. I'd love to see our ministers "back down" from the measures being artfully and insidiously emplaced under the auspices of all sorts of other harmless- or necessary-sounding legislation, but I just don't see it happening.

    I'm not saying Australia is the land of enlightenment and open government or anything, but somehow the top-coat of bullshit and whitewash over there seems to be somewhat shallower on the whole.

    Good on yer, Oz. Now please, expose some of the hypocrisy and skullduggery going on in the rest of the developed world for what it is - an ingrained attempt at tightening power and control over the voting public.

    --
    Meta will eat itself
    1. Re:Yeah, great... try that in the UK by ewe2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm another Australian.

      Unfortunately it's mere incompetence. They actually want to have all the fun "security" bells and whistles you have in the UK, they're just hopeless at getting it through without being noticed. Our politicians are no less sneaky and dishonest than anywhere else, but perhaps the apparatus to hide such intentions isn't as well developed here. We don't have that grand tradition of bill riders as in the US or the UK in our legislative conventions, so far.

      The tradition we do have is assigning problematic (read: politically ambitious) ministers to a complicated technology-based portfolio where they can make fools of themselves while their rivals go on to bungling something else. The opposition did something good for a change and appointed the politically astute Nick Minchin as shadow minister and he's been ripping truck-sized holes in Senator Conroy's plans from day one.

      The fatal mistake Conroy made was not to make sure this couldn't be done by bypassing legislation and farming it out to a statutory body beyond the reach of public opinion. And even that body is incompetent at censorship, so it's truly is a case of don't ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by idiocy.

      What bothers me most is how difficult it was to get the story out in the media, its been relegated to tech pages and my efforts to raise the alarm among my non-techy friends met with disinterest. This isn't going to go away, they will try it again.

      --
      insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
    2. Re:Yeah, great... try that in the UK by adamkennedy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I suspect that has a lot to do with the character and nature of Australians in general.
      > I may get criticised for stereotyping, but most Australians of my acquaintance take
      > pride in the blunt honesty prevalent in their culture, so I don't think I'm out of line.

      Speaking as an Australian, I'd say that it's not because the honourable minister is blunt and straight forward, it's just that he's a bloody idiot.

  7. Not dead yet! by stavros-59 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This idiotic plan is not killed and dead. The Labor government in general, and Senator Stephen Conroy in particular, have been taken aback by the strength of the opposition. The article noted in the summary only covers some of the incompetent answers given to hard questioning by the main Opposition party and one of the minority parties.

    Trials are still being underway involving 4 tiny ISPs, one medium ISP, one Christadelphian ISP and one large ISP majority owned by Singtel.

    There is no engineering, vendor neutral specification giving trial design criteria or testing methodology as the basis for the trials. There is no requirement for the ISPs to disclose which method of censorship they selected. The ISPs have been supported to the tune of $AU300,000 but there is still a $AU887,000 consultancy contract for the testing and reporting of on a system to block up to 10,000 URLs. The IWF annual report lists between 1100-1300 sites blocked by their system. Rumour has it that much of the testing in the small ISPs is using equipment from the same censorware vendor but this is not confirmed as several censorware vendors have been lobbying for the windfalls. Watchdog, using the NetClean system was involved in some separate testing undertaken by another ISP, Exetel. The Exetel trial received a great deal of criticism in the Australian internet community and Exetel customers. The trial has not been cancelled and neither has the testing consultancy.

    Any assumption that the scheme will disappear is premature.

    A list of 1000s of banned films and publications is still in existence. The censorship regime has become more and more repressive over the last 10 years. Realistically the entire basis of censorship needs serious review. It is managed by more than one government authority under several different pieces of legislation. The proposed censorship of the internet is under the control of the telecommunications authority which is yet another government authority.

    You would have to try very hard to find a more incompetent approach to anything to do with IT, networking or civil liberties all in the same package.

  8. YAY by Choozy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In Australia, we have a small enough population (and mandatory voting) that its not a wise option to piss off too many people while you are in power. Especially if you want to get back in. The ministers' defection was caused due to backlash in his region. It is my guess that the labor government will try and sweep whats left of the issue under the rug and we won't hear about it again (or at least until some other polly thinks it may be a good idea and may get some conservative votes and we will have to go through this again).

  9. Re:Could someone invite that guy over to Germany? by Mountaineer1024 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tell you what, on behalf of a vast majority of Australians I invite you to keep him.

  10. A better government solution by CustomDesigned · · Score: 3, Insightful

    would be a positive filter. Instead of trying to filter the entire internet for everyone, create a Government Certified Safe Internet that lists web sites deemed "appropriate for children" by a new bureaucracy, and make it available to anyone's private filter on a voluntary basis. Require all government internet terminals available to children (e.g. libraries) to subscribe to the filter. Yes, there are already private companies that offer this service, but the constituents driving this evidently trust a giant government bureaucracy more than they trust a somewhat smaller corporate bureaucracy.

    There will still be a market for private filter companies because they can offer different censoring standards to parents. It could actually be a good thing to have a voluntary censoring standard backed by general consensus. Private filters could start with the government database as a baseline, then add sites that "really should have been approved" or subtract sites that "my kid(s) can't handle". (For instance, my daughter had nightmares about "ducks biting her" after an incident involving a goose. She was not allowed to view "Jurassic Park" until she was much older, even though it was appropriate for the other kids.)