Allegedly Rigged Product Demo In SAP Suit Goes Missing

narramissic writes "Waste Management sued SAP in March 2008 over a failed ERP project. Now, well into the pre-trial discovery process, a presale product demonstration software package that Waste Management says was a key element of the 'false representations' SAP made to 'induce Waste Management into entering a software licensing and implementation agreement' has gone missing. Naturally, both sides say the other has it. And SAP, for its part, says it has 'searched extensively' for the system and wants it 'as much or more' as Waste Management, since it 'will help SAP disprove WM's fraud claim.'"

Comments

Waste Management? uh, oh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Waste Management is headquartered about an hour from SAP America's headquarters in PA.

They also are also the subject of various mob-related rumors (as are all trash disposal companies), and have had a dubious string of CEO's come and leave under weird accusations of accounting fraud.

I wouldn't want to walk to my car late at night at SAP. That's all I'm sayin'.

Failure to understand technology

[Locke2005]

In fact, Waste Management should have the demo in its possession, as it was transferred to the trash hauler's system in late 2005 and early 2006, according to SAP, which demanded in a May 14 filing that Waste Management turn it over. So, copying the software to a customer's computer automatically erases it from developer's computer? And now they want it back, 'cause that will automatically erase it from the customers computer? This dispute makes both sides look like morons, but looking like an idiot is going to have more more impact on SAP's business than on Waste Management's bottom line. No one expects a garbage man to be an IT expert. But if a software developer can't keep a copy of everything they give to a customer, how the hell can they be expected to maintain the software they distribute?

No, it really matters more to Waste Management

[bfwebster]

I'm not a lawyer, but..

Most software licensing agreements contain limitations of liability and monetary damages, usually limited to the amount paid by the customer. However, if the customer can demonstrate fraud, the customer has a chance to 'break' those limitation and go after additional damages (lost profits, cost of replacement, etc.). So if the demo exists and if it shows capabilities not found in the actual SAP implementation, WM might be able to use it to prove fraud -- assuming that the judge doesn't simply rule the demo as being "sales puffery" (i.e., salespersons are allowed a certain legal leeway in extolling the virtues of the product they're trying to sell).

Should be interesting. ..bruce..

SAP again?

[someyob]

I would hazard the vast majority of us have first hand knowledge of an SAP based enterprise system project gone amok (as I have). Some interesting ideas here http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/sap-watch/what%E2%80%99s-the-real-trend-in-failed-sap-projects/. I wouldn't necessarily blame the users all the time; in our case, it seems a combination of ill defined requirements, crazily feature rich software and consultants not unhappy when things drag out.

Re:i had it

[RichardJenkins]

A classic Indiana Jones reference highlighting the folly of choosing something based on how shiny it is get moderated as troll whilst I can get modded insightful for spouting the first nonsensical bs that comes to mind? What's the world coming to!

Re:like every other sales demo

[jsebrech]

The company I work for also sells waste management solutions. The first time we sold it, we took a planning tool meant for building maintenance (repairing light bulbs and the like) and repurposed it. Even today the garbage trucks still have to be entered into the system as employees.

So, yeah, this is pretty common.

Then again, the users are very positive about our solution, which is apparently one of the easiest to use in the market. That says a lot about just how bad the niche enterprise software business is in general. People think those special-purpose apps are well-crafted, but because they're special purpose they usually are held to a much lower standard than consumer apps.

The most embarassing "enterprise" niche software product I've seen was a solution for patient transport in hospitals. It was written by a hobbyist, and I could have done a better job at 15 than that guy did. Still, they sold it for thousands of dollars a seat, and were apparently one of the key players in the patient transport business. Scary.

Re:like every other sales demo

[cerberusss]

instead of simply refusing to sign anything until they sat down with somebody with a brain that could tell them what they actually needed the thing to DO, instead of what they WANTED

In my opinion, it doesn't always work like that. I run my own business and regularly the following happens:

• Client posts a pretty generic Request For Proposal (RFP) on a website
• I put in some thought (say, an hour) and give a rough price
• They call me and make an appointment
• We meet and talk it through for about two hours
• I make a final proposal, another four hours.

Now I've spend a day and have not yet seen a single penny. The customer usually replies with "thanks for the proposal, but you should change this-and-that, and we should talk more about the details".

To which I usually say -- look we can talk about it some more, but I already have spent a lot of time. Are you going to sign or not? So me and the client sign an agreement without knowing all details. These are hammered out later in a functional design. If I come to the conclusion that the devil is in the details and the tolerances in my quoted price are too limited, I tell them this and possibly break out of the agreement.

The point is that these two parties did not break out of the agreement early enough.