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When Your Backhoe Cuts "Black" Fiber

bernieS writes "The Washington Post describes what happens when a construction backhoe accidentally cuts buried fiber so secret that it doesn't appear on public maps — and what happens when the Men in Black SUVs appear out of nowhere. Apparently, the numerous secret fiber and utility lines used by government intelligence agencies are being dug up with increasing frequency with all the increased construction projects in the DC area. It's amazing how quickly they get repaired!"

21 of 385 comments (clear)

  1. Our tax dollars at work. by Celeste+R · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.

    If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.

    They aren't without options; and ultimately they're currently fighting the system, and putting our tax dollars to work in ways that could be prevented.

    It's understandable that they want to keep secrets secret, but isn't covering it up going to draw more attention than fudging the paperwork?

    --
    There are no perfect answers, only the right questions. More questions at http://foresightandhindsight.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That wasn't terrorism. That was good old fashioned espionage. Spies and saboteurs are related to terrorists, in that they're all tools of "total warfare" doctrine, but it's not the same thing.

    2. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Until somebody goes to fix the natural gas line and can't figure out which one to work on. Or worse can't figure out which one to tap when rebuilding the home.

    3. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 5, Insightful

      WTF does stealing plans have to do with scaring people?

      The government can use plans being stolen as an excuse to scare their people with the threat of scaring people? :)

    4. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are reasons why it's important that public records are kept.

      And there are reasons secret records are kept... It's not a perfect either-or.

      If they wanted to keep people from knowing where or what exactly it was, they could simply have marked it as something it wasn't.. and beyond that, they could encrypt what goes on that fiber.

      Take map. Place ruler and draw the lines. Oh, it's something important connecting building A to building B, you can't hide that unless you run markers so wide it's meaningless and you know it's not their super secret sewage system. You can bet it's all well encrypted, but there's more to it than wiretapping, there are these little things called reconnaissance and chain of command. Imagine a real state of war, unlikely as it might seem right now. Cut the right wires, jam anything wireless and you got generals looking at blank screens with no information of what's going on and no way to command their troops. Now I'm no military expert but that sounds to me like a rather serious threat to national security. Don't you think so too?

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by digitalchinky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think? Military secrecy is far more important than you give credit.

      Our cheap 30 dollar widget added to our existing stockpile of shoulder launched anti-aircraft missiles will ground your trillion dollar paper tiger in a heart beat. How so? We built this little gizmo to outwit the countermeasures built in to your trillion dollar paper tiger stacked up over there in the corner of our intelligence office. Not only that, but from those reference specs, we were also able to reverse engineer the bog standard state of the art used on most of your other aircraft too.

      See the picture?

    6. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ego, of believing they are above the law

      Where have YOU been lately? They are above the law.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    7. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are lots of natural gas pipelines under the ground besides the low-pressure ones that end users tap into to run domestic appliances. The higher-pressure transportation pipelines aren't something you touch unless you want to die a spectacular death, so they'd be guaranteed to be left alone by everyone save the gas company. And if you wanted to protect against that, you could create some sort of paper company that owned it and was responsible for maintenance: I've never met a utility company that would touch something once they got an inkling of a way in which it could be made somebody else's problem.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    8. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's actually worse. Because now they are KNOWN to be super-secret government lines.

      I mean, think about it: You dig up a cable that shouldn't be there and rip it apart. You hop off your 'dozer and still stare at the wire, wondering wtf it's doing here, while a suspiciously unmarked car screeches to halt next to you, out come a few suits and tell you you didn't see anything (sneaky-stealthy as our secret policemen are). They could just as well guard it with a similar tape they use for high voltage wires here (they put in yellow-red plastic tape about half a foot above high power wires and gas lines, so when you dig it up you KNOW you shouldn't dig any deeper) and mark it "secret government wire, do not dig deeper".

      Mark it as a gas line, mark it as high voltage lines, hell, mark it as sewage pipes, but not marking it at all is asking for trouble.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by bigbigbison · · Score: 4, Insightful

      we have that in the USA too. you call in and someone comes out and plants flags, spray paints the gras where the lines are supposed to be. I would imagine that Australia having many fewer backhoe incidents than the USA would have something to do with Australia have less than 10% as many people as the USA.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    10. Re:Our tax dollars at work. by bcmm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WTF does stealing plans have to do with scaring people?

      The US Government doesn't like it.

      What did you think think terrorism meant?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
  2. Ok... by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    So who you supposed to notify when you dig? If the fiber is secret, nobody's going to tell you where it's at, and nobody's going to 'fess up about the ownership of said fiber.

    And who do you make the check out to when you do cut it? Or would a 'Hey, how the hell can we know when we cut a top secret fiber? How we supposed to know it's there if it's top secret and we don't have clearance???' defense work in court when the other guy's lawyers come at you for damages?

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    1. Re:Ok... by weirdcrashingnoises · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm going to guess that they don't come at you for damages, as that would only make their little "secret" more public.

      and on an unrelated side note, ianal.

      --
      sigs... don't talk to me about sigs....
  3. Under pressure... by Roskolnikov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having seen lines ran in pressurized pipes (pressure drop... alarms) and break location by reflection it doesn't shock me at all to see this; being spooks you would think they would use easements or dig deeper than usual
    to secure such things, but like most work I bet it was contracted out to the cheapest labor they could trust.

    I will say though, not listing the location suggests much; if they are afraid that someone could tap into fiber without detection it most likely means they are already doing so, sometimes the thing you fear the most reveals much about your current state.

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  4. Re:Two Ends of the Cable by Roskolnikov · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At&t

    --
    Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
  5. Re:Two Ends of the Cable by DigiShaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Up the tax payers ass, naturally.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  6. Re:Not a new problem by LordKronos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If that is really what the line was for, then nobody would have told you that's what it was for.

  7. Re:Not a new problem by RyoShin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With all this, wouldn't Washington have some sort of department that all construction plans have to be submitted to, and the lone guy with security clearance compares the construction zones with secret lines/locations? I would think this would save a lot of time and hassle and, considering how the government likes to create useless jobs, am surprised that it doesn't seem to exist (but not surprised if it does exist and they just don't do their job right).

  8. Are we sure they're secret cables? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I were trying to keep a cable secret, I'd make sure the real cable was clearly recorded on the maps as something totally innocuous and not connected to anything secret at all. If it got cut, it'd get repaired per normal procedure for the kind of cable it's marked as (and I'll have sufficient backups that I don't need to make the repair an attention-grabbing rush job). Then I'd lay a few completely unused but highly suspicious-looking decoy cables, making sure they occasionally got cut and that there was a suitably public trying-to-look-not-public scramble to repair them. That way anybody trying to find my cables was likely to glom onto the ones I was trying to keep hidden, and probably wouldn't even bother looking at "backup equipment monitoring line, sewage pumping station 37, Department of Public Works".

  9. Re:Security Through Obscurity is not security by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You've created a defense that would defeat an unsophisticated attacker.

    You can stop right there. I've created *a* defense. Obscurity is a *level* of defense, that's all it is. No, it's not going to hide the machine from someone who's adding -p 1-65535 to the end of their nmap scans. It's not going to magically protect me from someone trying to crack my particular server if I haven't patched a known exploit. It will protect me from the most basic attack, worms, that are looking for basic configs. How many SQL worms are out there banging away on port 1414? If I'm running a vulnerable server on port 1415, is that machine going to get infected by one of those ancient worms? No. Is it still vulnerable to a dedicated attacker, yes. But I've got a massive subset of attacks that I've mitigated with a very simple config change.

    It bears repeating: The problem comes from making obscurity your only defense. Obscurity should always be a part of your defense.

    We do not design security to defeat unsophisticated attacks.

    Then why do you lock your server room doors? Or encrypt hard drives? Or install a fire suppression system in the building? Don't kid yourself, it's the unsophisticated attack that you need to worry about first and fucking foremost.

    So, yes, 5 locks are more secure than 4 locks. Anyone who can break 4 will break 5, so it's not significant. Similarly hiding the port number is more secure than not hiding the port number. However, it doesn't change a one-hour break into more than a one hour one minute break.

    Obscurity isn't about 5 locks instead of 4. Obscurity is the first lock. If obscurity doesn't work, why do we change passwords? All we're doing is 'obscuring' the password.

    I can cat back through years of auth.log's and not see one. single. solitary. unauthorized login attempt on one of my boxes. Not one. Why? The SSH server sits on an unregistered port. Do I trust bragging about that statement enough to post the IP and port number here? Fuck no. But by obscuring the number, that machine is, at the very least, not a target of opportunity. That has to count for something in anybody's book. In several years, people haven't even *tried* to break in. But every day, there are attempts to open cmd.exe in the apache logs.

    Obscurity is not a panacea, it's a step. It's a step in the overall security process that has gotten diminished by people spouting off a catchphrase.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  10. Re:Completely fallacious and sensationalized nonse by jeff4747 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't send out a crew of guys in an SUV to blow cover.

    The guys in the SUV aren't there to fix the line. They're there to make sure you accidentally broke the line. As in you're not deliberately cutting their communications, or made a huge mistake while installing a tap.

    As such, they need to arrive quickly and start asking questions quickly.