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Last.fm Strongly Denies Sharing Data With RIAA

Posted by kdawson on from the he-said-she-said dept.

bonch writes "Last.fm and CBS vehemently deny sharing any user data with the RIAA, contrary to previous reports. One anonymous party calls it 'irresponsible journalism,' and Last.fm goes so far as to suggest it is a target of slander. Carla Duckworth of the RIAA confirmed, 'We've made no such request for this information.'"

33 of 122 comments (clear)

  1. RIAA also says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Thanks for the good idea!"

    1. Re:RIAA also says by sopssa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm actually siding with Last.FM here, just for the reason that TechCrunch deleted mine and many others comments if it was about *anything* against their view or if you defended last.fm. The most recent article about last.fm downtime was also hilarious try to make bad comments about them (and see the writers comments in that article :). Now, I do not know anything about which side is valid. But by far last.fm has answered questions and what they have been accused of, while TechCrunch keeps removing comments that dont side with them. For me that says something.

    2. Re:RIAA also says by sopssa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just to note, his comments are with green background and by Michael Arrington (@arrington)

      Here's some of them:
      - Any idea who is hosting their servers ?
      Michael Arrington: the RIAA?

      Michael Arrington: Iâ(TM)ve found itâ(TM)s best to be careful when it comes to last.fm and the truthfulness of their public statements.

      Michael Arrington: iâ(TM)m not even sure where central time is.
      in reply James Wheare: Are you drunk Mike?

      Michael Arrington: i have a special place in my heart for last.fm

      Well, for me these comments sound really unprofessional.

    3. Re:RIAA also says by sopssa · · Score: 4, Informative

      subsystem posted this down in the comments, but everyone should read it. Guardian has actually done some fact checking with it unlike TechCrunch: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/28/not-safe-for-work-last-fm

  2. From the Article: by InMSWeAntitrust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This all leaves us in the same place we were in Februaryâ"with a slew of accusations, a handful of denials, and zero evidence.

    That's what happens when you believe rumors.

    1. Re:From the Article: by SomeJoel · · Score: 3, Funny

      Rumors are almost always more entertaining than the truth. And that's why we read slashdot, right?

      --
      <Complete your profile by adding a signature!>
    2. Re:From the Article: by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Funny

      This all leaves us in the same place we were in February—"with a slew of accusations, a handful of denials, and zero evidence.

      Wait a second. Are we talking about the TechCrunch accusations or the RIAA's lawsuits here?

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    3. Re:From the Article: by InMSWeAntitrust · · Score: 5, Funny

      I read slashdot to stay informed of current events in the tech world, and I want the articles to which it links to have factual accuracy and to be researched. This accusation sounds a lot like the wrong person twittered the right thing and now the people involved are knocking some sense into us.

    4. Re:From the Article: by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not to mention that the RIAA's wording "We've made no such request for this information." means precisely squat as to whether they have that information.

      Sure....they didn't ask for it. But that doesn't mean they didn't receive it.

      Don't think about what PR departments say; think about what they _don't_ say. Why exactly did the RIAA word it that way? If they didn't have that information, they would say: "We don't have that information, and never did."

      Yes, I'm cynical. But with an organization like the RIAA, what reason do I have to be otherwise?

      As to Last.fm's statements that they've given that information to noone? Well...noone that the president knows of. Maybe one of the few people that have access to that "tightly controlled" information is a malicious insider. Wouldn't be the first time it happened....

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    5. Re:From the Article: by afallowhorizon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't think about what PR departments say; think about what they _don't_ say. Why exactly did the RIAA word it that way?

      -Exactly-! Why would the RIAA say "We've made no such request for this information." when they could have said "We've made no such request for this information, and neither has the Unified Reptoid Conspiracy which controls us." As it stands now, they've pretty clearly used their carefully crafted lawyer speak to completely leave out any mention of the vast network of cold-blooded alien masters lurking in the shadows. Frankly, that makes me a little suspicious.

    6. Re:From the Article: by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Funny

      As to Last.fm's statements that they've given that information to noone?

      Today the RIAA announced that Richard Noone Esq. has been promoted to head of the copyright enforcement division.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    7. Re:From the Article: by Allicorn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Whilst I must salute some quality semantic pedantry there - hats off! - if you read the extensive statements, blog posts and forum messages of the Last.fm team in response to this issue you'll see that there is no "wiggle room" in their wording. They have emphatically denied this in absolutely every sense that some data might have gone somewhere.

      So, Last.fm have denied it. CBS have denied it. The RIAA have denied it.

      TechCrunch have provided no evidence of any kind. What they have come out with is a long-running stream of unsupported, often transparently vitriolic whinges, whines and allegations about Last.fm with never a scrap of evidence or a hint at how they'd have access to it if there ever were any.

      Add to that the fact that the original allegation makes no sense anyway since scrobbler data (containing a list of the track- & artist-name ID3 tags of the media files you've played... tags which are freely editable) would seem to be of no value as either evidence of "theft" or probable cause for further discovery of evidence. This data doesn't say where the track name came from - only that you played a media file with that label. Bought/resold/leant/borrowed/mislabelled... the genuine explanations are endless and nothing in the data should be grounds for any suspicion of "piracy".

      What you end up with is a picture that seems to suggest there's whilst there's definitely a lying douchebag of RIAA-standard involved in this story... it's probably not the RIAA for once.

      --
      OMG!!! Ponies!!!
  3. Smells fishy by Tanktalus · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wasn't so sure before, but when the RIAA denies even making the request, well, now I'm paranoid. Methinks [they] doth protest too much.

  4. Sure! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like the company is going to come right out and tell people.... "we fuckin sold you out to make a quick buck! hahahahaha!"

    Is it logical that the RIAA would want that data? Yup. Would CBS really cooperate with them? Yup.

    I have no problem believing they really did it. And have no problem believing that they would LIE about it. Both are really in their best intrests.

    1. Re:Sure! by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Suddenly, everyone accused of rape fits the bill too!

      Is it logical that Tom would rape the supermodel Tina? Yup. Would her friend Sheri cooperate with the police? Yup.

      I have no problem believing Tom really did it. And have no problem believing he would LIE about it. It's really in his best interest.

      With your logic there's no way for Last.fm to win. Simply because they were accused of it, and because the accusation was plausible, they are guilty. I know these are liberal times and all, but let's not jump the gun.

  5. Irresponsible Journalism?? by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 4, Funny

    From TechCrunch? I refuse to believe that.

    1. Re:Irresponsible Journalism?? by subsystem · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's an article with some actual fact checking: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/28/not-safe-for-work-last-fm (sfw). I didn't like the fact that comments on TechCrunch that offered any opposing viewpoints were promptly deleted.

  6. Uhm... by agnosticanarch · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's a Duckworth?

    --
    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
    1. Re:Uhm... by Endo13 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno, but when I find out I'll send you the bill.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    2. Re:Uhm... by MaerD · · Score: 2, Funny

      Somewhere around $4.35 for a mallard, unless you buy in bulk.
      Google, helping me be a smart ass since 1998.

      --
      I put on my robe and wizard hat..
    3. Re:Uhm... by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just make sure you don't get the estimate from some quack.

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    4. Re:Uhm... by machine321 · · Score: 5, Funny

      *ducks*

  7. Perhaps a form of... by Aristophrenia · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...Industrial Espionage?

    Many users may not trust Last.fm after this, regardless of its validity. And we know that many more people have no trust for the RIAA. All things considered, this may have driven much traffic to other similar sites (even with the Streisand Effect) thus providing other sites a chance to increase revenue.

    While this may not be the most likely cause, it is something to consider and contemplate, while making sure one doesn't go too far down the tinfoil hat road.

    For further reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage .

    --
    "Yeah, but by we know yo mama gives EVERYBODY root privilege..." -jpetts (208163)
  8. So, did they get the data? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The RIAA says that they didn't request the data, but note that there is no denial that they received it.

    1. Re:So, did they get the data? by putch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      yeah also note that cbs/last.fm only deny handing over "user info" which is seems like a carefully constructed statement. how exactly do they define "user info?" it implies that they have handed over some info.

      --
      just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!
    2. Re:So, did they get the data? by Nova77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/8#f9525592

      * We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data.

      Also note that a lot of "user info" has always been available through feeds.

    3. Re:So, did they get the data? by bonch · · Score: 2, Informative

      The original stories accused them of handing over user data, or personally identifiable data, to the RIAA, so that is what they are denying handing over. Nothing about it "implies that they have handed over some info." You're the one making that assumption for your own reasons. Only on Slashdot could an emphatic denial of something that nobody had any proof of in the first place somehow "imply" that it's in some way true. Sigh.

  9. Slashdot hands over information to Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm an ex-Slashdot employee, ex-astronaut, and ex-president of the Hair Club for Men, and two weeks ago CmdrTaco gave Microsoft the posting history along with IPs, email addresses, favorite colors, your FICO score, and if you like pouring hot grits down your pants for the Bing search engine.

    I'm anonymous, on the Internet, and have no actually proof, so it has to be 100% true! Now is the time to over-react and proclaim you are quitting Slashdot.

    1. Re:Slashdot hands over information to Microsoft by machine321 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm quitting Slashdot.

  10. Hmmm, Credibility.... by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, who do I trust more:

    1. The RIAA PR person, the CBS PR person, and the Last.fm PR person.
    -- or --
    2. A completely unverifiable source who may have an axe to grind or other nefarious motive for completely fabricating the story.

    Frankly, it's a tough call.

    --
    Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
  11. TechCrunch and Pandora by meehawl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Pandora's main competition for mindshare is Last.FM. There's also a bit of a US/EU rivalry, with Pandora so strongly identified with the US and, with the Valley in particular, while Last.FM came out of a Euro milieu. I think I've noticed a very pro-Pandora coverage pattern at TechCrunch. Lots of the "Web 2 - Me Too" AdSense spam sites, sorry, gadget/tech blogs, take cues from TechCrunch, and among the iPhone-toting, US-centric crowd, Pandora is a darling.

    Before I'd believe anything TechCrunch said about Last.FM, I'd want to know more about the personal and financial connections between the people running TechCrunch and the people running Pandora.

    Personally, I've tried Pandora every years and it fails, epically, to even know about many of the artists I am interested in hearing. Plus, Pandora's Flash interface is just aggravating, user-hostile, and screams hipster-designer-marketroid-douchbags-in-control.

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:TechCrunch and Pandora by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      FWIW, the Valley is a small place. One of Arrington's first interviews was Tim Westergren, founder of Pandora.

      There doesn't need to be any fiduciary interest on Arrington's part, familiarity with Pandora might be all it takes to make him favor Pandora.

      And also, not sure where you're getting the concept of a big rivalry between Pandora and Last.fm. I've observed no such thing... just that people use what they are comfortable with. Maybe there're fanboys sprouting up, but I think you're overanalyzing.

      IMO, Arrington's just a twit. Twits exist independently of financial arrangements.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  12. Re:You& Fai7 It by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I guess you haven't noticed the influx of spam? That message isn't a real message, is some computer generated spam, probably some sort of megahal like bot that combs slashdot and tries to post comments to see what kind of score it can get. Having played with megahal quite a bit, I'd say that it actually probably isn't megahal itself as megahal would have done a better job of forming sentences, but someone elses attempt to do the same thing. Probably some PhD student or something using other peoples resources to do his research, lazy bastage. He'll make a perfect professor though, since about the only reason they are 'professors' is so they can get paid to do research they want rather than thier jobs, and get cheap ass labor from the students, which you and I pay for in taxes.

    Every story posted will have multiple messages like this if you notice them before they drop below your viewing threshold.

    Frankly I'm surprised you are the first person I've seen mention it.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager