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Judge OK's MediaSentry Evidence, Limits Defendant's Expert

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In Capitol Records v. Thomas-Rasset, the judge has denied the defendant's motion to suppress the MediaSentry evidence for illegality, holding that MediaSentry's conduct did not violate any of the three laws cited by the defendant. The judge also dismissed most of the RIAA's objections to testimony by the defendant's expert, Prof. Yongdae Kim, but did sustain some of them. In his 27-page decision (PDF), Judge Davis ruled that Prof. Kim could testify about the 'possible scenarios,' but could not opine as to what he thinks 'probably' occurred. The court also ruled that, 'given the evidence that there is no wireless router involved in this case, the Court excludes Kim's opinion that it is possible that someone could have spoofed or hijacked Defendant's Internet account through an unprotected wireless access point. Similarly, because Kim explicitly testified that this case does not involve any "black IP space," or any "temporarily unused" IP space ...., he is not permitted to opine at trial that hijacking of black IP space or temporary unused IP is a possible explanation in this case.' Dr. Kim was also precluded from testifying as to whether song files were conspicuously placed in a shared files folder or were wilfully offered for distribution. The judge also precluded him from testifying about Kazaa's functioning, but it was unclear to me what the judge was precluding him from saying, because the offered testimony seemed to relate only to the question of whether the Kazaa-reported IP address precluded the possibility of the device having been run behind a NAT device."

12 of 283 comments (clear)

  1. Could be a victory by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This could be a victory for Jammie. The judge carefully lays out, at pages 13-14, the standards for admissibility of technical evidence.

    I know for a fact that neither MediaSentry nor Doug Jacobson could satisfy those standards.

    Assuming the judge applies those standards evenly, this trial may end abrutly, because the RIAA's only witnesses may both be precluded from testifying.

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    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    1. Re:Could be a victory by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Assuming the judge applies those standards evenly

      In your experience, is this generally the case?

      Yes. If the judge says 'this is the rule we're going to play by' then that's the rule.

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      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    2. Re:Could be a victory by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm not too happy about the ruling that MediaSentry evidence was legally obtained.

      Me neither. But I'm not familiar with the Minnesota statute and caselaw. I'm sure that with most state licensing statutes, the result would be otherwise.

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      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:Could be a victory by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please, make up your mind and tell me how to properly react to this already.

      eldavojohn, you're a cool guy, you can figure it out.

      But seriously...
      1. most of the rulings are totally right down the middle and easily anticipated
      2. the ruling on the MediaSentry is bad, but it's not applicable to the other 49 states
      3. the ruling on the expert is ok except for the part about NAT
      4. if the judge applies the standards he described to MediaSentry and Jacobson, case closed, Jammie wins.

      So it all boils down to whether he applies the same rule; and he appears to be a fairminded Judge, so I would say this portends a victory for the good guys.

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      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    4. Re:Could be a victory by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

      eldavojohn, you're a cool guy, you can figure it out.

      Cool -> cold -> frigid -> frigerator -> meat -> meat locker! Meat locker, that's it! Of course!

      Figure -> filter -> filler -> filbert -> finger ... FINGERS !!! Oh my god, how could I be so blind?!

      They're going to kill her, cut off her fingers and hang her in a meat locker! It's brilliant and evil all at the same time.

      Ray, we have to warn her! I'll meet you at the comic book store down the street from my house in fifteen minutes! Our detective crime fighting team name will be the "The Extraordinary Super Aces!"

      --
      My work here is dung.
  2. really stupid question (sorry) by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is there a jury involved in a situation like this, or is a judge looking at possible testimony and then deciding which of that testimony he (himself) is allowed to hear vs which he (himself) isn't?

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:really stupid question (sorry) by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Is there a jury involved in a situation like this, or is a judge looking at possible testimony and then deciding which of that testimony he (himself) is allowed to hear vs which he (himself) isn't?

      You should be modded +5 for asking one of the best questions I've ever received on Slashdot.

      Answer: the preliminary questioning of the expert is done before the judge, out of the presence of the jury, and is called a 'voir dire' [same term that's used for jury questioning]; if the judge rules his testimony is totally inadmissible, he never gets to testify before the jury; if the judge rules it is admissible, then he gets to testify in the presence of the jury.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    2. Re:really stupid question (sorry) by artor3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      But... but... My Cousin Vinnie told me that voir dire occurs right in front of the jury! Now what am I supposed to base my entire knowledge of the judicial system on?!

  3. Re:Get over it by Jay+Clay · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) it may or may not be willful. I know plenty of people who didn't realize what they were getting into with file sharing apps. As a matter of fact, most people I know who aren't fairly computer savvy thought the whole illegal internet music thing was about downloading, not uploading.
    2) it's not what we think happened. It's if there are other PLAUSIBLE things that could have happened.

  4. There is a way around that. by Weaselmancer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Simple. Change this:

    The court also ruled that, 'given the evidence that there is no wireless router involved in this case, the Court excludes Kim's opinion that it is possible that someone could have spoofed or hijacked Defendant's Internet account through an unprotected wireless access point.

    To this:

    The court also ruled that, 'given the evidence that there is no wireless router involved in this case, the Court excludes Kim's opinion that it is possible that someone could have spoofed or hijacked Defendant's Internet account.

    Then a demonstration. Take a PC into the courtroom and hook it to a cablemodem. Then tell the guys at Defcon to give the judge a live demonstration of pwnage.

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    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:There is a way around that. by Antidamage · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have a problem with this whole proposition. I don't like dishonesty.

      The RIAA suing select people for vastly more than they could reasonably claim in damages is dishonest. These select users lying to get otherwise reasonable justice is also dishonest.

      The entire system needs to change, but in the meantime people should fight the good fight rather than lie and use technicalities they know are dishonest. We want to be the good guys here.

  5. Re:Get over it by sirsnork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think there would be a lot less sympathy for her if a guilty verdict wasn't going to destory her life. No act of copying/sharing a few MB should end up costing you your life savings (and then some) unless it's treason (and in that case you had it coming).

    I think most of us would be fine with all of these cases if the defendants involved had to pay a reasonably amount of money but clearly that isn't the way it's going.

    --

    Normal people worry me!