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HTML 5 Takes Aim At Flash and Silverlight
snydeq writes "While Adobe, Microsoft, and Sun duke it out with proprietary technologies for implementing multimedia on the Web, HTML 5 has the potential to eat these vendors' lunches, offering Web experiences based on an industry standard. In fact, one expressed goal of the standard is to move the Web away from proprietary technologies such as Flash, Silverlight, and JavaFX. 'It would be a terrible step backward if humanity's major development platform [the Web] was controlled by a single vendor the way that previous platforms such as Windows have been,' says HTML 5 co-editor Ian Hickson, a Google employee. But whether HTML 5 and its Canvas technology will displace proprietary plug-ins 'really depends on what developers do,' says Firefox technical lead Vlad Vukicevic. It also depends on Microsoft, the only company involved in the HTML 5 effort that is both a browser developer and an RIA tool developer. 'That's a big elephant in the room for them because you can imagine the Silverlight team [whose] whole existence is to add [this] functionality in. [But] if Internet Explorer puts it already in there, why do we have Silverlight?' asks Mozilla's Dion Almaer." The RIA guys are quoted as saying they're not worried, because HTML 5 + CSS 3 is 10 years out. Are they just whistling in the dark?
If graphics artist types can't make the kind of pointless crap that they do now with Flash, we won't see uptake of HTML 5.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Just because I can embed video and sound doesn't make my HTML pages the equivalent of flash. More importantly, Microsoft has "announced" intension to support HTML 5, but there's exactly zero movement so far from the market leader, and a long history of similar unfulfilled promises. Until Microsoft says HTML 5 is the next big thing, it isn't. Sorry, I know it sucks.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
Dump Flash and Silverlight into the dust bin of bit history along with the YouTube master control! Onward!
How about adopting Chromes Native Code Binary API plugins for all the browsers while we're at it? Let's get it so that we can auto download plugins written in languages other than that icky JavaScript gooicky stuff.
Get on with it guys! The web browser is still just so much as a dumb terminal spitting screens to a central server master control program!
Let the independent distributed revolution begin!
Flash, Silverlight, and JavaFX all have major vendor tooling support to help coding, developing, deploying on these platforms easy. I don't know of any tools in existence or in development that can beat the solutions offered by these vendors. Adobe might be willing to do that in the past, but they own Macromedia (flash) so I don't know if they will step up. In short, unless the tools are there, it will not see major adoption.
The RIA guys are quoted as saying they're not worried, because HTML 5 + CSS 3 is 10 years out.
If this is the case, how far behind will the browsers be in supporting the standards?
No incumbents, not no where, not no how.
Vote them out every term.
but it won't work in IE until the point's moot. Remember kids, it's not done until Lotus 1-2-3 won't run!
I'm sorry but I just can't stand developing in Javascript. Javascript is hands down the most arcane language I find myself developing in. At this point being locked into a language like Javascript by the standards community seems much more restrictive than what the proprietary plug-ins are offering. Programming in both Silverlight and Flex has been a liberating experience for me. When using Silverlight or Flex I'm able to focus on creating an application that satisfies my customer's needs; instead of focusing on the black magic tricks that are so often required when using Javascript and HTML. At the end of the day it's so obvious that HTML and Javascript were not intended for serious application development. Not only do Silverlight and Flex offer better programming models they also offer rich support for databinding, and that has simplified so many of my applications. So unless HTML 5 comes packaged with a better programming language and data binding you can count me out.
Had Adobe not steadfastly refused to put any end user controls or setting in Flash no one would have bothered to develop alternatives.
But because they wanted to cater to the jumping monkey segment of the web advertising world, they stonewalled every request for end-user controls, such as no looping, no animation, no sound, etc.
Besides the fact that it is bloatware, its just end user un-friendly.
In order to control Flash, you needed to kill Flash and millions of web browsers would like to do exactly that.
Being an open standard HTML5 is open for development of end-user controls, such as animate only while cursor hovers, sound off till I say so, etc.
Bring on HTML5.
This is a market Adobe deserves to lose.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
this is the beginning of the no-plugins trend and I for one think its about time. Sure some 98% of people have flash installed, silverlight much much less and java (well I tend to steer away from that as much as possible, besides when was the last time anyone ran an applet these days?) but the problem we are seeing is that single vendors take there time to migrate to other platforms, and usually then they lack features and what nots. Look at flash, it isn't even available for the iphone and it's linux support is very limited (alpha still?) not to mention lacking 64bit in windows, fucking windows! If flash was an open platform then more external resources can be used to address these situations but then this is where html5 goes one step further, instead of making it a plugin for everyone to download why not just make it part of the browser and save the hassle.
The fundamental issue with the new RIA standards is the lack the of authoring tools. I have got a number of graphically-inclined friends who are never going to write something with HTML5 mainly because there are no tools out there (yet) which come even close what the Adobe authoring tools can do.
Recently, I sat with one of my friends (who's a decent artist) and played around with Processing 1.0. After several minutes of hard work, it just became abundantly clear that visual thinkers have a lot of trouble expressing what they want algorithmically. The experience was repeated the next time, when he was playing around with chucK (yeah, he's a music dude too).
The graphic artist folks will have a lot of trouble using the HTML 5 authoring tools currently available, especially if they're confined to use HTML Canvas programmatically. I've easily gotten upto speed with canvas, but I'm a programmer with no artistic pretensions.
Real adoption of HTML5 - canvas and video & all, will need easy ways to author media ... not write code.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Microsoft might be part of the w3 organization, but none of their browsers support any of the HTML5 specs, i dont call that being involved, instead they have specifically decided not to support these standards, and try to slow down, and break apart the web.
The assumption that the IE team is motivated to compete with other browsers on the grounds of features and compatibility is naive. MS if pushing Silverlight through every vector they can think of. They like things the way they are: proprietary. This is the same company that makes Visual Studio, along with compilers for a dozen languages. Do you *really* think they'd have a problem developing a JavaScript engine to compete with V8? Or implement a few additional CSS rules? How about Canvas?
As long as the numbers of IE usage remain where they are, they are not compelled to push this route of technology. They like things the way they are now.
Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
> Even if HTML 5 were rigourously defined and backed up by proper compliance testing
For what it's worth, that's one of the most important goals of HTML5.
> how long it will take for browsers to properly support it
That 10 year number in the article is actually more or less the current estimate from people like the spec editor for HTML5.
It could be done with PHP because replacing server software doesn't affects clients; in particular, it does not require them to install new plugins and/or change their browser.
Client-side, it's a very different kettle of fish. Silverlight can fight Flash by being bundled with the OS (or installed wia WU); JavaFX can fight it by being bundled with JRE (or installed when JRE is auto-updated). I don't see any similar opportunity for HTML5.
As a developer deploying to clients via the web browser using a Native Client application I'd need to have versions that work on these cpus assuming I want you to be able to use the app from your handheld gizmo.
So now, every developer has to buy x86-32, x86-64, ARM, and PowerPC devices in order to test his scripts instead of just downloading different browsers and running them on one PC. I thought we got away from having to buy multiple machines when Safari got ported to Windows.
I'm actually staring at the screen and trying to think of what to "say". Have you just met Microsoft? They've had .Net code running on BSD since ~2002, and I'm *not* talking about Mono. They've released plenty of code that runs "on the competition", while attacking both from the legal *and* the PR fronts. It's all a messed up game for them, they're stalling for as long as they can. They'll help you along with your science project and then sue you for using their patents in it. If we haven't learned this by now, I suppose we never will.
Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
And yet those tools produce more crap code than Microsoft had market share for its Windows operating system and Internet Explorer browser in the first few years of this decade.
Seriously - there's a huge problem when someone can create a Web page with a WISIWYG editor that breaks when a new browser, browser version or rendering engine comes out and is generally inaccessible to people with disabilities while leaving search engines guessing which content is the most important; yet I can create the exact same page by hand using nothing more than a plain text editor and a decent graphics program (like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop Elements) that works just as well in Internet Explorer 5, IE6, IE7, IE8, Firefox 2, Firefox 3, Opera, Safari, Chrome and other browsers without having to update them whenever a new browser, browser version or layout engine is released - without hacks about 90% of the time for any browser. And that's just for GUI capable desktop clients.
While using only 25% of the code the WYSIWYG editor barfs up, making the site accessible to everyone (not just the disabled), search engine friendly, and able to support up to three times as many people due to lower code weights, fewer HTTP requests needed with every page view, and optimized images (CSS sprites anyone?) - and that's just off the top of my head.
If I can learn how to do that, anybody can. And my high school counselors (not to mention my family and their friends) thought I would never amount to anything.
I already have iPhone (ARM)
What makes you think Apple is going to digitally sign a Native Client plug-in? From Apple's iPhone SDK developer agreement:
Besides, a lot of students learning web development during high school or college have a dirt-cheap prepaid phone and can't spare $220 plus tax for an iPod Touch.
and X86-32 and X86-64 boxes... they are almost a dime a dozen
To somebody who's already employed. People before their first real job or between jobs need to stretch their computing dollar further, and that might mean using an older PC without x86-64 support.
That is one thing MS Silverlight team doesn't understand too.
If you want designers/video guys embrace a new technology, you have to plug into Adobe's tools and Apple Quicktime framework in a perfect, seamless way.
Both Adobe tools and Apple quicktime has no problems with stuff plugging into them and in case of Quicktime, it is actually designed for "components adding new functionality". There is no "evil" to whine about, just an ignorant company who aims to give hell to people who dares not to use their operating system. Well guess what? Designers really use Adobe, Apple technologies and Quicktime (on windows too) so there is no point sending them to Eclipse IDE download. Yes, they suggest them to use Eclipse... Designers... Eclipse... :)
It says that Schwartz believes that his message is more important than the medium it's delivered on.
Comparing downloads with market share is bogus; for many reasons there have been FAR more Firefox downloads than current daily users. Why don't you tell us the actual market share of Silverlight-enabled browsers?
You lost MLB and NYT after pouring resources into them. I'm less worried about Silverlight than I used to be.
There have been 400M downloads of Silverlight so far.
That's more than the total market share of Firefox + Safari + Chrome (+ Linux + Mac + iPhone + Android if you're thinking platforms). So Silverlight's already a bigger audience than every browser NOT IE running on Windows.
First, downloads != daily usage. Second, {browser,phone,operating system} != plugin. If you want to use such a wide definition of platform, we might as well include Facebook, since it has an app platform. Facebook has 100M users active daily; Compared to 400M users ever for Silverlight. It seems that Facebook is very likely to be a bigger "platform" than Silverlight.
As for flash, youtube has 100M videos watched per day, and 300M accounts. All of those presumably would have flash, yet that would only be a percentage of the total. It's safe to say flash is in more common usage than Silverlight -- Many people (such as myself) downloaded it for the Olympics and haven't used it since.
In the USA, the highest profile Silverlight projects have probably been Netflix and the Olympics (Beijing and soon Vancouver), with the Masters and NCAA March Madness as recent big ones.
IOW, Silverlight's success up to now stems from exclusive content deals Microsoft has managed to strike with content providers, by way of generous contracts. If Chrome were the only way to see the 2012 Olympics, I would expect a lot of downloads of Chrome, and likely a lawsuit from Microsoft. It's funny how the shoe feels on the other foot.
By pointless crap, he meant eye-candy that is useless, with fricking animations everywhere that distract you from the actual content and that and only gets in the way of productivity and accessibility. I don't ever remember seeing a Flash website that had an usable interface.
The RIA guys are quoted as saying they're not worried, because HTML 5 + CSS 3 is 10 years out.
Does anyone else see a pattern here? Disruptive open standard is proposed. Committee is formulated to advance the standard. Microsoft gets involved. The standard languishes for years. SVG. CalDAV. XML Forms. Etc. Microsoft's strategy is clear: delay and disrupt progress on any and all open standards which pose a threat to their proprietary alternatives. Putting Microsoft on an open standards committee is like putting Rush Limbaugh on Barack Obama's campaign team.
HTML needn't be the end for innovative web software, but it surely could be a long overdue end to those damned plug-ins! The reason those plug-in required software products deserve to die a terrible death is that those programs have hampered commerce and made most customers' web experience, miserable!. If you were running a traditional store, you would not stop customers at the door and insist that they don a monkey suit in order to shop. This is somewhat like what those plug-in software companies did. What macromedia and their ilk were saying was, "Either wear the monkey suit, or take your business somewhere else." recent research has shown that eighty-eight percent of web users refuse to pause to download plug-ins; they simply take their business elsewhere. The fact that most of the world is still using low-bandwidth connections (estimated at eighty percent of users) adds to the problems created by demands for downloading plug-ins before gaining access to commercial sites. With HTML5, business should experience a significant increase in online traffic and sales. If HTML5 lives up to expectations, this one change could be the key factor in some business segments starting on the road to economic recovery. Let's hope the HTML5 implementation happens quickly.