Slashdot Mirror
Bozeman, MT Drops Password Info Requirement
mcmoodle writes "Bozeman, Montana has decided that they don't want applicant personal information after all, citing a worldwide backlash on the issue:
'"Effective at noon today the city of Bozeman permanently ceased the practice of requesting that candidates selected for positions under a provisional job offer to provide their usernames or passwords for candidates' internet sites," said Chris Kukulski, Bozeman City Manager. ... Kukulski says after a 90 minute staff meeting held earlier today, officials decided asking applicants to provide their passwords to sites such as Facebook or MySpace, "exceeded that which is acceptable to our community." Kukulski apologized for the negative impact the issue has generated from news organizations and blogs around the world.' I didn't have any doubt this would be immediately squashed. Now I'm just curious as to how many personal accounts they actually went through!"
What else can we start worldwide backlashes against? They seem to fucking work.
In a system like ours, each branch of government has a specific role to play. The legislature crafts and passes laws. The judiciary determines whether the laws are valid. And the executive branch takes actions prescribed by the laws.
But only the executive branch has the power to actually do anything about the laws. It is almost a travesty how much power this puts into one single branch of government. Where we expect checks and balances, there is only unbalance in favor of the executive branch.
FTFA:
The city will continue using the internet as part of background checks to judge the character of applicants, and although the city will stop asking for passwords Kukulski says the passwords already given by previous applicants will remain the confidential property of the city.
It doesn't matter if searching online is legal or not. In fact, it may be illegal to consider anonymous online sources as actionable information. As long as the executive branch says it is going to do something, there are no laws that can truly restrict it.
Interesting that they declare the passwords they've already received to be the "property of the city."
Bodes not well, that's for sure-- and it shows that the city still doesn't "get it." They likely just know that a lot of people got very upset, and figured they'd back away from something they just don't grasp...
. . . well, the world now knows that there is a place called Bozeman, Montana.
"Come visit Bozeman this summer for vactation . . ."
"See the lovely lakes . . . "
"Please leave your passwords at the door . . ."
"What out for the moose . . ."
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Are you implying that a person's passwords to their personal accounts on websites are subject to public information requirements?
Because the FBI has maintained that obtaining a person's passwords without their consent is a crime.
FanFictionRecs.net
1. Fill out form, including password.
2. Send it in
3. Change password
Sheesh.
First, this is not a cabinet position. This is fucking Bozeman, Montana, which no one had heard of until they pulled this stunt.
Second, who watches the watchers?
Third, define "nothing to hide"? As a simple example, I don't think my body is horrible, though it could certainly be better. That doesn't mean I want to be strip-searched to get on the bus to go to work.
It's not about whether you have anything "suspicious" worth hiding. It's about whether you have anything you'd consider private. There's a reason privacy is part of the universal declaration of human rights.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Whenever a management decisions will be visible to those who are not subject to the decision-maker's authority, "management" is often seen to drastically scale back the scope of what it first mandated as necessary, instated as "policy", and enforced. The downside is that climbdowns are rarely the result of a realization of "Oops ... what we did was really stupid, so lets not do it anymore", but mostly "Oops ... we're getting bad publicity on this one ... time to do some managerial damage control". Stupidity remains unchallenged (unless it can be used by a manager to discredit a rival).
This example is also a salutary lesson for those who thought that Dilbert stories are all based in an imaginary world. As Scott Adams said: many of his examples come from real-life occurrences that he either witnessed himself or were emailed to him.
... citing a worldwide backlash... ceased the practice of requesting that candidates selected for positions under a provisional job offer to provide their usernames or passwords for candidates' internet sites
The common sense question would be why hasn't the city Manager and his accomplices been fired without severance because of this severe incompetence and lack of judgment. Reacting to a reaction is the worse kind of Management. These people should show some Leadership and resign from their positions without asking for severance pay or Letters of Reference.
While Bozeman's government's actions aren't kosher, can we really defend against it? Records are records, and if they decide that they absolutely must have it for such and such, it's not something you can completely prevent
This is nothing but the typical "if you don't have anything to hide, then you should be OK giving up your information" defense, slightly rephrased. Please read Daniel Solove's excellent evisceration of this argument here in PDF, and stop accepting the blanket "interests of national security" line without questioning on a case-by-case basis if it is reasonable.
Someone needs to create a privacy argument checklist for /. like the "why your spam solution won't work" checklist.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
It's completely unenforceable. People can just claim they have no Slashdot account (for example) and therefore not have to give their passwords away. Why anybody would be stupid enough to randomly give every potential employer their passwords is beyond reason. I could understand setting up temporary proxy accounts that would be used to, for example, say good things about the company in anticipation of a job interview.
The people who thought up this scheme are obviously stupid. How do people get into Management?
Yes, it was. But Vulcans don't give up theirs passwords.
So they were evicted with GUNS!!!!
I've found that when managers are ignorant about technology they often pretend that they understand. Chris Kukulski, Bozeman City Manager, seems to be one of those. Yet he says, "Integrity, leadership, service, and teamwork are the core values of our organization..."
Although he has stopped asking for passwords, there is no evidence that he actually understands, because the story says this: "... although the city will stop asking for passwords Kukulski says the passwords already given by previous applicants will remain the confidential property of the city." That's a surprisingly ignorant position to take, since site owners can change their passwords at any time.
Some people can see that technology is re-shaping our world in an exciting way and want to be part of that, but they don't want to do the work of actually understanding how and why.
It would be interesting if someone would collect all the Slashdot stories about managers pretending they understand the more complicated world surrounding technology, but actually being very ignorant. For example, yesterday there was this story about a university needlessly losing money: IT: Univ. of Wisconsin's 30-Year-Old Payroll System Needs a $40 Million Fix.
Reality is 9/10th of the law.
perception is reality
therefore
perception is 9/10 of the law
Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
The story broke on June 17 and by the 20th they had smartened up.
Seriously people, pull your fingers out.
Then again, it could have been a 1 minute vote and then 89 minutes of pin-the-blame on whoever's not there.
Laws are meant to be broken. - Ref some Wall Street lawyer
In most of the places I have worked, Human Resources is stocked via lateral transfer from other areas. They're the deadwood that can't be easily be fired, but must be moved out for the good of the department. I'm entirely unsurprised that some HR drone came up with this idea. Unfortunately, they're still the first people job applicants usually encounter.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
At least the Bozeman city officials had some idea about "how them internets work". When their bad judgement was pointed out to them, they took the right path instead of digging in their heels and making complete asses of themselves
Actually, it's more like "Well, even the FBI, which not the most "privacy conscious" of organizations, thinks that accessing someone's personal accounts without their permission (or a warrant, or special PATRIOT act permission) is a crime."
Heh.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Are you implying that a person's passwords to their personal accounts on websites are subject to public information requirements?
Because the FBI has maintained that obtaining a person's passwords without their consent is a crime.
Consent is the requirement.
I was privileged to work for years with a really good HR guy. While he was in charge, no strikes, no industrial action, low staff turnover, and the quiet word in our community (this being politically incorrect years ago) was that gay people would never be subject to embarrassing questions if they applied for jobs. When he retired to grow fruit and win all the golf club trophies till they asked him to stop, he was replaced by a typical corporate drone who within six months had managed to lose two expensive wrongful dismissal cases, upset the union to the point of a strike, and cause several of the better managers to look for new jobs. Stuffing HR with idiots who should be fired is actually more expensive than getting a good HR person to work through the process of getting them legally dismissed.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
It would have been one thing had they just requested applicants list all of their social networking sites. And even listed their usernames with each site so that they would know who they were on those sites since most people don't use their real names as their logins. Clearly my real name is not yoshi_mon.
It still would have been a very invasive and ethically dubious practice but not too surprising for a 'red state'.
But to then ask for peoples passwords? That is where the whole thing gets surreal. Why the hell do you need access to the accounts? I've yet to see any real explanation for that part of this nonsense. Not that there really could be a good explanation for it but I'd really like to see what kind of twisted rational was given.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
The people who thought up this scheme are obviously stupid. How do people get into Management?
I would think the statement answers the question..... :-)
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
In Star Trek: First Contact, Zefram Cochrane launched the Phoenix from a missile silo just outside Bozeman, Montana. But yeah, that's about it.
I'm giving up mod points to voice my agreement with you. Anyone else remember Tuttle, Oklahoma? I don't expect managers, even IT managers, to know everything, but it would be nice if they admitted they made mistakes rather than acting like jerks.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]