Licensing Issues Shut Down Pandora Outside US

randalotto writes "I'm in France for the summer and have been listening to Pandora at work. I tried logging on tonight and was greeted with a surprising message: 'We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the US. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative. ... The pace of global licensing is hard to predict, but we have the ultimate goal of being able to offer our service everywhere.' I'm not sure what the deal is or what licensing requirements suddenly changed, but Pandora in France is no more..." Note: the above link redirects to the main site, for those inside the US.

Comments

What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[Tumbleweed]

Hope.

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[Fluffeh]

Can't you get around it by using a proxy?

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[clarkkent09]

I don't think he wants to get around hope.

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[Killer Orca]

Trust a slashdot user to logically connect my post to the GP in CLEARLY the wrong way. I love it! I tip my hat to you sir!

That whooshing sound you hear is available to listeners inside the U.S. only due to licensing restrictions.

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[commodoresloat]

So you're going with Change, then?

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[sorak]

Trust a slashdot user to logically connect my post to the GP in CLEARLY the wrong way. I love it!

I tip my hat to you sir!

That whooshing sound you hear is available to listeners inside the U.S. only due to licensing restrictions.

aw, crap. Please don't tell me we've patented stupidity.

Re:What's left for users outside the U.S.?

[burnt1ce85]

There are free proxies out there like hotspot shield but I personally find that US Proxy very slow. Instead, I find a paid proxy like witopia works flawlessly without any lag. I have been using them for 2 months and I haven't had any problems with it. No software needed to be installed to use their service. You just simply login to their VPN, located in the US.

Old news ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought they shut down listening to non-USA last year ?

Re:Old news ?

[Goldberg's Pants]

Pandora has been dead outside the US for some time. I was just getting into using it when they shut down access outside the US. I'm sure it was at LEAST two years ago this happened.

First post!

[PMBjornerud]

...err, I mean. Isn't this old news?

I though Europe was blocked 2 years or so earlier. Didn't know that France was an exception. Or he was lucky with his IP block being considered American.

Re:First post!

[interactive_civilian]

Indeed. This is the primary reason I have never used Pandora and why I did end up using Last.fm. Pandora has never been accessible to me from where I've been in the world. With Last.fm no longer being free to listen on, options are limited, though, if you continue using scrobbling, you can still use Last.fm to find some decent recommendations to check out. Then you can turn to other sources to sample that music.

Though it isn't the same thing, in that you have no control over what you listen to, I'm going to go ahead and give a shout out to Triple J Radio, a radio station out of Melbourne, Australia that plays a wide range of music and very little top-40 crap.

If anyone is looking for legal free music, it is worth surfing around Archive.org and/or LegalTorrents. There are a lot of good independent artists out there giving their music away.

Get a cheap VPN with a US server

[Anonymous Coward]

Just pick a VPN provider with a server in the US and location-based discrimination is a thing of the past.

Here's a decent list:
http://en.cship.org/wiki/VPN

It's funny how "content rights" holders complain about all those evil people copying, when you cannot even do it their-way(TM) if you want to.

Jango

[fph il quozientatore]

alternative: www.jango.com works fine (at least from Italy)

Re:Doesn't make sense

[EvanED]

I thought the whole beauty and logical design of Pandora to make the streaming legit was the idea of the played music being based on the donated full, legit, and tangible music CDs they received from the community or public domain?

Um, owning a CD is a far cry from having the rights to publicly exhibit/distribute it.

ip law

[circletimessquare]

does not foster technological and cultural innovation

ip law is an impediment to technological and cultural innovation

it has hopelessly been compromised by government agendas and corporate greed, and no longer serves individual innovators and creators

it is your moral duty to ignore ip law, or better, destroy it

i hope to see in my lifetime the complete neutralization of any effective ip law in this world. the internet makes it possible to route around the damage that is ip law, things like the pirate party in europe gives us hope as social opinion moves in line with obvious morality on the issue of the complete bankruptcy of ip law

Re:ip law

[clarkkent09]

Care to elaborate a bit on the world without IP laws? How will musicians, writers, movie studios, news organizations, software companies etc even approach covering the costs of producing their work if the first person who buys it can make infinite number of copies and share them with the whole world?

Re:ip law

[gringofrijolero]

...but you have to draw the line someplace.

That's right! 18 years..max! Take it or leave it. And record companies can become simple hired press agents without no exclusivity and can get paid a small commission AFTER the creator gets paid. Real competition..the horror! I don't suppose you could ever get used to the idea that recordings are promotional material to entice people to pay for a performance as opposed to the recording actually being the performance. That's like the dummies who pay to receive a phone call, or a text message. Wow! If only my line of work worked like that...

The shills come out at night..

Re:ip law

[clarkkent09]

Entertainment shouldn't be an industry.

Why pick on entertainment? There is nothing wrong with exchanging your work for money, I bet you do it every day. Why do you feel its ok for you to be paid for your work, but its somehow wrong for artists, musicians, writers etc to demand be paid for theirs?

Re:ip law

[grcumb]

Care to elaborate a bit on the world without IP laws? How will musicians, writers, movie studios, news organizations, software companies etc even approach covering the costs of producing their work if the first person who buys it can make infinite number of copies and share them with the whole world?

Care to speculate on how artists, musicians, writers, etc. managed in a world that not only lacked IP law, but also lacked the ability to reach anything approaching the kind of widespread audience that's available to modern artists?

Creative artists have survived far longer without so-called Intellectual Property protections than they have with them. And they've done so under far, far less salubrious circumstances.

Seriously, think about it: If strong copyright laws had existed in Elizabethan times, we'd probably have a much smaller Shakespearian canon than we do today. The Folios were compiled after his death by a couple of people who just happened to love his work. They collected partial manuscripts, interviewed actors, even worked from memory. And they did so not out of any particular desire for profit, but because they loved the man's work and wanted it to be remembered.

Tragically, we call these people 'fanbois' today and ridicule their efforts - when we're not busy making them outright illegal. Thank the heavens for simpler times....

Re:ip law

[Aceticon]

It should just work just like any other job: artists should get paid for the work they do (like a performance) once and that's it.

If a plumber comes over to install a new toilet at my place, he gets paid once, not every time anybody flushes it.

Why should I pay Paul McCartney when I get a copy of a Beatles track and then again if I give a copy to my mother and then yet again (to his descendants) when in (say) 20 years time I give a copy of a Beatles track to my grandson?

I don't see why the money I pay in taxes should be propping up a system where some people are by law privileged above all others.

TPB...torrents...etc...

[AmigaHeretic]

And they wonder why sites like the TPB are so popular. :rolls_eyes:

Tor

[Sabre Runner]

A friend of mine is a long time Pandora user and he hasn't stopped when Pandora blocked everyone outside the US. Currently he says Tor helps. If I'm not mistaken, he's using a Tor/FoxyProxy combination but I haven't delved too much into it. I don't feel like hassling with something if there's an easier, equally good, solution. So now I'm listening to music via GrooveShark. FineTune, Deezer and other services are also available but most are annoying and anti-users, unlike GrooveShark. I admit, Pandora probably has the best song matching algorithms and GrooveShark's database is quite a mess but it does what it's suppose to do and short of quite obscure albums, I've found everything I wanted.

Re:Tor

[rts008]

*sigh*
I see similar posts frequently.
Okay, here's how its done:

You have to bypass the Heisenberg Compensaters to create an inertial sump, then reverse the polarity on the Warp Field Generators, then combine the streams(yes, this time you do!) and reroute the output to the deflector dish to emit a focused tachyon pulse that has to be synchronized and modulated with the inertia compensator's artificial gravity generator, pipe your Tor proxy through that and Lynx then flies at near light speeds down the 'tubes'!

*disclaimer:you can exceed ISP 'bandwidth' caps in milliseconds this way, so type FAST!*
[end sarcasm]

I feel your pain.
Tor is handy, but is far from 'the Silver Bullet' it is claimed to be.

I also see streaming something like Pandora over Tor as problematic at best.

Re:Tor

[EdIII]

TOR is NOT a proxy. It can be proxy like, but it is most certainly not a proxy.

First and foremost, TOR was designed to create Anonymity through reasonable doubt. That's its primary goal above all else. As a consequence of it's method of achieving Anonymity, it must act as a proxy for other connections.

Why the anal retentive distinction? Too many people are trying to use it in ways it was not designed too. It's ridiculous, but it's still in it's testing phase at the moment. People keep recommending TOR for one purpose or another, and then inevitably someone comes in and bad mouths TOR, which has already happened to your post and many others.

Well of course it's not going to perform up to anybody's expectations at the moment. With the bandwidth that is actually allocated to TOR through it's members (the exit nodes) it can barely keep up. Most people seem to install TOR and never choose to be an exit node for the rest of their peers. It's like have a torrent system in where only 1% (I admit I am pulling that number out of my ass) ever seed a single kilobyte.

If one does not need anonymity specifically, one can just look for regular proxies. There are plenty of free proxies, both anonymous (they don't send your IP through, but probably log) and paid proxies. A VPN to a system in the U.S with a hosting company is another solution too. Something in one of the "clouds". The choices are endless for this specific "problem".

I only recommend TOR when the purpose is to be completely anonymous, or to an extent in which it is extraordinary difficult to identify you even with participation of some of those involved. Most, if not all, of those purposes involve small amounts of data that the TOR network can handle.

It might be a little more work, but your friend could do a lot better than TOR, and it would be a good idea. At that very least he should at least be an exit node. I appreciate people who run exit nodes outside of the U.S.

I may sound a bit touchy on the subject, but I depend on TOR. Anonymity is very important to me and TOR is a fantastic tool to that end. I just wish the network was not slammed so hard with trivial high bandwidth applications and people that have no intention of ever contributing back.

Re:Tor

[Chad Birch]

Conveniently, Pandora does its "where are you from?" check over the www.pandora.com domain, but streams the music over a different subdomain. This means that you can use FoxyProxy to have your connection to the www subdomain go through TOR, but the music still comes directly to your machine over your normal connection.

Weird, yes. But this is how it works. The page is very slow to load through TOR, but the music plays perfectly once it finally does load. I don't know why they did it this way, but it's certainly helpful for all us non-Americans.

P.S. Why is this news now? Canadians have been locked out of Pandora for at least a few years.

Re:Tor

[srealm]

The big problem with being an exit node is a legal one. Specifically the Cease and Desist notices from the RIAA/MPAA.

I had an exit node with 2mbps bandwidth DEDICATED to TOR. Not too long later, my service provider started getting the copyright infringement emails. Even though I handled them all myself, and sent replies, called people, showed my service provider the TOR page about legal threats, and even promised to cover any legal costs *IF* it did ever get that that, eventually my service provider just got sick of receiving and forwarding the emails.

Now I don't specifically blame my service provider for this - it IS a potential legal exposure/battle they just don't need. Now you could blame the people using TOR for P2P, but they're doing it for exactly the reason TOR was created - to avoid detection of who they really are. Now you can't tell people TOR cannot be used for illegal activity, because the very reason TOR was CREATED was to facilitate illegal activity (eg. dissident speech in China). So what is illegal or not is a judgement call.

Therefore the blame ends up being on the RIAA/MPAA - but even there, they are legitimately trying to protect their rights. As unpopular as it sounds, and annoying and ineffective as it may be, there IS a reason they are sending out emails of the like. It's cheap for them to do it, and the threat of legal action is usually enough for ISP's to yank someone's pipe.

So my TOR node was, in the end, turned into a non-exit node. Until this kind of problem is solved (for which I don't know what the solution would be), then exit nodes on TOR will be a rare commodity, and as such, bandwidth on the TOR network will be limited because it is being constrained to very few eligible pipes.

Re:Tor

[Toonol]

I have a question about how TOR works. If I installed it, and configured it so I WAS an exit node, would it appear that all the requests coming from TOR (terrorist manuals, bestiality, child pornography, and so forth), were actually coming directly from me? Then, when arrested, my defense would be that it was really coming from the TOR node I was running?

Is there a way to clearly PROVE that it was a request coming from the TOR node, and I'm not a violent revolutionary furry pedophile?

Re:Tor

[EdIII]

would it appear that all the requests coming from TOR (terrorist manuals, bestiality, child pornography, and so forth), were actually coming directly from me?

Absolutely. TOR achieves anonymity through reasonable doubt as to who is responsible for the packets. You are going to be sending out packets on behalf of someone else, and therefore you will be the one they look at, not the originator. The whole point is that they can never prove it was originated by YOU.

Then, when arrested, my defense would be that it was really coming from the TOR node I was running?

It's a better defense then you give it credit for. Terrorist manuals are not illegal. It's ridiculous to say that the possession of information is illegal, and it's a very disturbing trend to see people thinking they can get in trouble for it. Bestiality is not illegal either, the pictures I mean.

Consider this:

After the 300th arrest of a TOR exit node provider, prosecutors start realizing that there is never any forensic evidence collected off the systems showing actual guilt. The *only* thing the prosecutor has is an expert to call to say the "bad packets" came from the suspect's network. The defendant brings in experts on TOR and explains the "bad packets" never actually originated from his network, but were proxied through from another node and there are no logs.

Prosecutors are not stupid, and they are most certainly not interested in guilt or innocence. They are whores of the highest degree. If they feel they cannot win a case, they don't even try. They are not like Level 80 Paladins that are going to pursue justice at all costs.

I am willing to bet that after awhile they will begin checking people to see if they are an exit node FIRST when they suspect them based on "bad packets". If so, they are going to need on heck of a lot more evidence before busting down their doors and seizing equipment when 99.99999999999% of the time they never succeed in convicting anyone. It would not be smart to continue doing that, would it?

Don't forget the BEST defense of all.............

"The packets could have never originated from my actions your honor. All of MY packets go through someone else's exit node. 100% of packets that leave my network are originated from other TOR nodes, as that is how it is designed."

Re:spotify

[Anonymous Coward]

The OP was about 'what's for outside of US' and Spotify it is, won't work over there.

http://www.spotify.com/en/help/faq/

What countries is Spotify available in?
        Spotify is currently available in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain.

I guess they'll add rest of the Europe and Nordic countries later.

Re:spotify

[Anonymous Coward]

Spotify Free is available in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain.
There are a few more countries where Spotify Premium is available.

IMO, what makes it great is:
* 3.5M tracks in the library, growing each day.
* Slick, easy to use UI
* 160Kbps Vorbis for users of the free product, 320Kbps Vorbis for premium subscribers

Another thing you might be interested in is that every once in a while, Spotify gets to release upcoming albums a week or two in advance of retail.

Their execution up to this point has been more or less brilliant, and I, for one, am gladly paying them 10 EUR/month.

Re:Doesn't make sense

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the public, it's just a few million of my close friends.

Bad in any region

[swordgeek]

I'm surprised at how many people are missing the point here. Pandora (and Hulu, for that matter) is blocked outside of the US. A number of /. readers are responding with, "Oh, if you're in the UK go here." "In France, you can listen on this site."

It's not (or at least shouldn't be) about what works in this region or that one or the other. It's fundamentally about the misapplication of national boundaries to an international (and nation-neutral) system. The internet restricted by borders is silly and wrongheaded.

How to use Pandora full speed outside the US

[TheSpoom]

Get Firefox.

Get Tor.

Get the FoxyProxy FF add-on.

Go to Torstat. Select the US CC and click Search. Click the sort buttons (the >) for Running, Fast, Exit, Stable, and Valid. Note down the nodes that come up.

Open your torrc file. At the bottom, add the line

StrictExitNodes 1

And then a line that begins with the word 'exitnodes', a space, and then a comma-separated list of the nodes found earlier. Save. Restart Tor.

Open up Firefox. Click the FoxyProxy status bar in the lower right. Make sure it's on "patterns" mode (the mode selector is at the top). Click the Proxies tab. Double-click the Tor proxy. Click Add New Pattern. For Pattern Name, type Pandora. For URL pattern, type this:

"http://www.pandora.com/*"

Without the quotes. Make sure it has Whitelist and Wildcards selected. Click OK and OK again to get out of the Pandora config.

Access Pandora.

You're welcome.