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In Canada, No Expectation of Privacy On the Net

The_AV8R writes "In a recent interview, Peter Van Loan, the new Canadian Public Safety minister, says ISPs should be able to provide private user information without a warrant. (The only example he gave was cases of child pornography; the interviewer pointed out that in these cases ISPs are already at liberty to divulge customer information without a warrant, but that the proposed rules would make that mandatory whenever the police ask.) He was adamant that in regard to IP addresses, names, cell phone numbers, and email addresses: '...that is not the kind of information about which Canadians have a legitimate expectation of privacy.' The minister denied — even when presented with an audio clip proving otherwise — that his predecessor had promised never to allow the police to wiretap the Internet without a warrant."

11 of 206 comments (clear)

  1. correct by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i dont expect anything on a computer or the internet to protect my privacy, so i take matters in to my own hands, i dont ever post my real name anywhere, i never upload a photo of myself, people need to protect their own privacy if they want their identiy off the internet/websites, --without-facebook --without-myspace even this user account on this PC is named anyuser which is an anonymous brand websites give to unidentified computers/people.

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:correct by wjousts · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But your ISP probably knows who you are right? I mean you signed up with them with your real name and probably pay them every month with a check or credit card.

    2. Re:correct by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      well yeah, but i dont do anything illegal so i am not attracting the attention of the authorities

      Right. You ain't doin nuthin wrong so you don't have anything to worry about.

      Why even bother with warrants at all? The police never go after someone who has done no wrong.

    3. Re:correct by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hahahahah. Right. Ever listened to a YouTube video that had an audio track under copyright? The RIAA (or canadian equivalents) would love to sue you for that. Posted a comment critical of the government? Next thing you know you wind up on a non-disclosed "watch list" and can't leave the country. Viewed porn of someone 17 by accident? The government would love to lock you away.

      The thing was, before this you had to attract the attention of the authorities, now the authorities might just wonder who IP XXX.XXX.XXX is and find something to arrest you for.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:correct by k10quaint · · Score: 5, Insightful

      a.) Listening to the video would not get you in trouble, but uploading it might.
      b.) Relying on the ISP to not divulge the connection between your name and your IP address is obfuscation, not to be confused with actual security. One should use an anonymous proxy to post things you do not want traced back to you.
      c.) You should destroy all your porn after viewing and fapping.
      d.) Relying on the authorities not having the inclination to prosecute you is also a bad idea.

    5. Re:correct by moon3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i dont do anything illegal

      This argument is extremely naive to say it gently. Just wait until you get some virus or trojan and the damned thing starts to serve some terrible content from your IP or start doing spam or DOS. Then you will have to prove to authorities that "you did nothing wrong", while they have lots of evidence on you.

    6. Re:correct by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bill C-61 (separate from this proposed legislation) would make it illegal to use a proxy or any other means of obfusctation on the internet.

      Your ISP will have a log of everything you've ever done, everything you've ever looked at, every post, and it will all be tied into your real life name and address forever.

      Everything. And this law would force them to hand it to any police officer for any reason. Did you make a video of them tazing a Polish man? Well, if you don't want your browsing history on the first page of the Globe and Mail, you're going to destroy the only copy.

      At home, I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. I don't expect that at work.

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      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    7. Re:correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not entirely so.

      I have had a search warrant executed on me by a false tip by a former employer. Once the legal mess all settled, I found out that the employer was stealing cash drops from the safe, and purchasing cocaine with the money. The Franchise owner audited him, and in an attempt to create a smokescreen, blamed me for the theft. He called the cops, gave this total sob story, and a warrant was executed. My house was destroyed inside from them looking for something I never had in the first place.

      In this post 9/11 world, even my poor Canada is becoming a police state, and when it comes to law enforcement, even the "Innocent" need to be wary. I did nothing wrong, yet I was treated like a criminal until the truth finally surfaced. nothing will ever fix that.

  2. Conservative government by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Informative

    This Harper government becomes more fascist every week it seems. Thank GOD they don't form a majority of seat in parliament.

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    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
  3. Minority by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Keep in mind that this craziness is coming from a minority government. Can you imagine what these Nazis will do to us if they were to ever get a majority? DMCA - check. Searches without warrant - check No watchdog for the RCMP - check Unaudited evoting -check Unaudited spending - check New prisons for all the new crimes - check Internet censorship - check Canada finally gets to declare war on someone - check All of this would be to keep us and our children safe. This is a government that is sure that they know what is best for us. Also this is a government who have very fragile egos and the internet is not a place for people with fragile egos. If you think I am raving then think of what Harper would have done if he had been in power with a majority after 9/11. Would have Canada gone to Iraq? Yes or no? The technological implications of all this will be an environment that tech companies flee from instead of one that encourages technology.

  4. Fortunately.... by exasperation · · Score: 5, Informative

    the courts will very likely find the Minister to be incorrect in his interpretation of the constitution, and that everything he is proposing violates Section 8 of the Charter, "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."

    I would point out the Supreme Court has ruled that that whether information is subject to protection by Section 8 is not at the whim of the government, but whether a person has a "reasonable expectation of privacy" of information which could "reveal intimate, personal information", in that particular situation.

    It is not particularly difficult to envision a situation where linking an IP address to a name would potentially reveal personal information to the state. Imagine a woman posting on a support forum for victims of sexual assault which tracks posters by IP...

    Since IP addresses and so on are identifying information, and this being information people would reasonably expect their ISPs to keep private, I suspect that this entire thing is just begging for a Charter challenge and to have the courts clearly specify that a warrant is required.

    CanLII has a very interesting brief on section 8 of the Charter here.