BD+ Resealed Once Again

IamTheRealMike writes "It's been a few months since we last checked in on how the Blu-Ray group was doing in their fight against piracy. In December 2008, a new generation of BD+ programs had stopped both SlySoft AnyDVD HD and the open source effort at Doom9. At the start of January, SlySoft released an update that could handle the new BD+ programs, meaning that Blu-Ray discs could not be decrypted for a period of time about the same length as SlySoft's worst case scenario. The BD+ retaliation was swift, but largely ineffective, consisting of a unique program for every Blu-Ray master. Users had to upload log files to SlySoft for every new movie/region. They would then support that unique variant in their next update, usually released a few days later. Despite that, the open source effort never did manage to progress beyond the Winter 2008 programs and is currently stalled completely; SlySoft is the only group remaining. This situation remained for several months, but starting around the same time as Paramount joined Fox in licensing BD+, a new set of programs came out which have once again made Blu-Ray discs unrippable. There are currently 19 movies that cannot be decrypted. It appears neither side is able to decisively gain the upper hand, but one thing seems clear — only full-time, for-profit professionals are able to consistently beat BD+."

Comments

The summary is missing something...

[FredFredrickson]

It's important to remember that a lot of people aren't yet focused on bluray. DVD ripping was a must have and many different open-source and closed-source programs popped up over the years because DVD had critical mass. As a previous ex-blu-ray-early-adapter, it may be that people just don't care about blu-ray the same way.. yet. I think if blu-ray ever catches on like DVD did, the story would be different.

I stopped caring about blu-rays, they became too much hassle (and too expensive) for not enough of a quality boost. Maybe in the future when they really start to overtake DVDs (on price too) I'll reconsider. But at the moment, I highly doubt I'm the only one who has no more than one or two blu-ray movies and rented the rest. The big reason I'd have wanted to rip was to keep a digital copy of my collection. Since I don't even have a collection, that will hold off till I stop caring about DVDs.

Blu-ray may yet die a horrible death..

Re:The summary is missing something...

[sleeponthemic]

it may be that people just don't care about blu-ray the same way.. yet. I think if blu-ray ever catches on like DVD did, the story would be different.

You're absolutely right. Furthermore (and perhaps crucially), it would take a significant increase in at-home internet bandwidth / quotas for that to be any different. Can't see many of us throwing 30 gig down on one michael bay movie :-) (Yes, ripping bluray->smaller formats still could be advantageous but I think it would be fair to say, few can be bothered with such tedium).

Re:The summary is missing something...

[hairyfeet]

Not to mention the average home user ATM really doesn't care about BD. The few customers I have had ask about BD said "no thanks" when they found they couldn't rip like they can with DVD. The DVD rippers have gotten so butt simple that even the most computer illiterate can rip them, and I have found many do. Not to pirate or transcode, but simply to make a backup they can toss around or let the kids use while the original stays in the box.

What I have found with my customers that most just go "meh" when it comes to BD. If they want to rent a flick a redbox is just around the corner, and when they want to buy they like to have it backed up. Maybe when everybody has huge HDDs(I still see many customers with 80-160Gb as their only storage on their PC) and big fat pipes so they are exposed to more high def content that will change, but with how lousy the cable/teleco duoploy is about running new lines and instead just want to cap everybody I doubt it.

For most folks DVD is "good enough" and the abundance of cheap players and cheap movies has made BD a non starter here. I am beginning to wonder if the pissing contest between HD-DVD and BD has ultimately doomed both formats, as more and more folks I talk to are just trying out Hulu and finding the convenience more appealing for TV shows, and redbox has the movie rental experience so smooth most rental stores around here are having to offer all kinds of deals just to stay afloat. BD may yet end up a dead format, with just PS3 owners and a few videophiles using it. After all, didn't I read somewhere that more folks own a HD-DVD than BD?

Re:The summary is missing something...

[Mix Master Nixon]

Moreover, Blu-Ray *was* cracked. The updated BD+ is taking some time, but once they figure out how to emulate the virtual machine better, it will again fall. The downfall of Blu Ray is built in - accurately emulate an official virtual machine, and the disc will decrypt itself for playback.

The studios'll keep breaking the virtual machine emulator, and the emulator will keep improving... until eventually the emulator is good enough that it simply doesn't break. Then I can actually start buying the Blu-ray movies instead of getting ripped copies of them, as they'll work in my media center box. Though I will say that it is amusing watching the movie studios fighting this hard and spending so much capital, all to prevent me from giving them money.

Dear Sony

[elrous0]

I don't care about your little IP war. All I know is, the first time I pop a blu-ray disc into my $300 player and it refuses to play because of one of your new little one-upmanship encryption schemes, I'm going to be plenty pissed. And I bet there are any number of ambulance-chasing trial lawyers out there are who going to be looking to make some big money off some nice class action suits everytime one of your new schemes renders all our existing players obsolete too.

P.S. And no, "Well you may be able to get a firmware update from your player's manufacturer" doesn't cut it.

Re:Dear Sony

[eldavojohn]

... one of your new schemes renders all our existing players obsolete too.

As someone who's still using DVDs, I see this from a slightly different angle. In my brain I'm thinking about the future and how difficult it's going to be for device manufacturers to support this format "consisting of a unique program for every Blu-Ray master." I mean, while the fight was HD DVD vs Blu-Ray, I was looking forward to "movie players" in the future being able to play anything under the sun and since the disc is standardized in size you'd be able to have players be backward compatible for multiple technologies ... maybe even leave open possibilities for up-converting old discs.

But after reading this story, I'm sure all this new anti-anti-anti-theft encryption technology requires you buy a license to use the per master programs and that these programs require a ton of chipset/memory on the device to decrypt these things. By the time you've foot the bill for the hardware and IP licenses on the technology, the universal player isn't going to be worth it.

It currently may spell annoyance/lawsuit but I predict the future techies will look back and frown upon what was done when future generations are left to be curators of digital media and wacky encryption schemes.

Re:Dear Sony

[MobyDisk]

The power of BD+ is that they can do this without breaking existing players, because they can actually change the encryption on the new disks, while still supporting the existing players.

Everybody laughs that DRM can never succeed - but BD+ has taken DRM to an entirely new level. It is a shame so much brain power was devoted to hustling people - I like to think that if this same amount of intelligence were applied to legitimate problems, we might have a man on Mars, or a fusion power.

Re:Here's the real question

[IamTheRealMike]

Yeah, exactly. I'd be surprised if BD+ really reduced piracy. I suspect most pirates will just grab the lower quality but still highly watchable DVD rips. I guess if BluRay penetration increases studios might start releasing the DVD copies months after the BluRay copies, but there'll always be a large contigent of people who just don't care about the quality increase. I think piracy is mostly about convenience after all.

I win against blue ray every day

[syousef]

I win against blue ray every day because I don't own a blu ray player and have never bought a blu ray disc. I recommend you do the same. Don't buy the discs then get pissed and try to sue. Vote with your feet.

Blu-Ray was dead before it started

[guruevi]

There are certain reasons people want to switch to a new format (eg. VHS -> DVD or DVD -> Blu-Ray)

1) Convenience - VHS had to be rewound, you had to wait for it to fast forward in order to skip parts. DVD can be repositioned on the fly. Blu-Ray is similar to DVD in that regard, so no win.
2) Quality - VHS degraded over time and DVD had a much better resolution. Blu-Ray is supposedly better only if the original source was better than DVD. A lot of small studios don't have 1080p camera's, a lot of consumers don't have 1080p TV's. 720p or 1080i is the current budget format and unless you're going larger than 42" it's not really noticeable.
3) Price - Maybe that should be on top but DVD in the beginning was just as expensive as Blu-Ray. The only reason it took off fairly fast was because of 1 and 2. DVD only killed VHS when the prices had come down so low that there was no real difference between a VHS or a DVD player and a VHS tape or a DVD disc. By then DVD was cracked by a certain kid named Jon.
4) Features - DVD had features that VHS couldn't give (commentary, different audio tracks, extra's) and Blu-Ray has the same exact features. However the added features of Blu-Ray (internet connectivity etc.) will hardly be used because of the inconvenience of having to put in the disk. DVD's have the capability of similar features like games etc. on some discs but again hardly anyone uses them.

The problem that Blu-Ray has which will leave it dead is that the price can never be on par with DVD if the studios are trying to keep control over the Blu-Ray format. How much does it cost to keep re-encrypting, offering firmware, fine-tuning the DRM? You can put it on a DVD and press it for cheap with or without the encryption. Blu-Ray already costs more to press it but now you're going to have to keep remastering it as well and then you'll have to contact all the vendors and let them update firmware in their current stock, at the customers' side, deal with complaints and keep exchanging units where either flashing went wrong or the customer is too incompetent to do it themselves. This will keep the cost of both players and media high and then the customer will complain to their friends that Blu-Ray players are always having issues.

To paraphrase Tyler Durden...

[tholomyes]

Man, I see in Slashdot the smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation fighting encryption, cracking protection; slaves with DRM collars. Advertising has us chasing movies and music, using formats we hate so we can watch movies we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose of place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War is a format war; our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised by technology to believe that one day we would have universal formats, backwards compatibility, and ease of use. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.