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GPS-Based System For Driving Tax Being Field Tested
An anonymous reader writes "Apparently, since gas consumption is going down and fuel efficient cars are becoming more popular, the government is looking into a new form of taxation to create revenue for transportation projects. This new system is a 'by-the-mile tax,' requiring GPS in cars so it can track the mileage. Once a month, the data gets uploaded to a billing center and you are conveniently charged for how much you drove. 'A federal commission, after a two-year study, concluded earlier this year that the road tax was the "best path forward" to keep revenues flowing to highway and transportation projects, and could be an important new tool to help manage traffic and relieve congestion. ... The commission pegged 2020 as the year for the federal fuel tax, currently 18.5 cents a gallon, to be phased out and replaced by a road tax. One estimate of a road tax that would cover the current federal and state fuel taxes is 1 to 2 cents per mile for cars and light trucks.'"
There's another really nice tool that has the advantage that EVERY car already has one:
Odometer
This is great, especially as there is no way to abuse this.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
GPS would be infinitely useful for governments. In addition to tracking mileage they can automatically charge tolls and even issue speeding tickets.
Why not just continue to raise the fuel taxes to generate revenue? That would serve to continue to reduce fuel consumption which would be a good thing.
Why not tax fuel?
- consumption is proportional to milage!
- promotes fuel efficiency!
- collection is easy!
- big brother not included!
Since it's a federal tax, it doesn't really matter where you drive from the point-of-view of collecting taxes. How you dole out that money for highway projects is a problem however.
There's another really nice tool that has the advantage that EVERY car already has one: Odometer
So who gets the money from that?
Currently if I am driving in a state the state usually gets some percentage of the gas tax.
If you are just checking the odometer, my home state gets all the money even if I travel out of state often?
I don't like the GPS idea one bit, I'm just saying checking the odometer does not solve the problem.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
See, the people will revolt if we suddenly double or triple the gas tax, which is 18.5 cents a gallon.
But, since we're going to mandate that all cars get 35 miles per gallon, and then we charge 1 to 2 cents (and it'll be two cents, if not four by the time it gets passed), then that means we've effectively upped the gas tax to between 35 and 70 cents a gallon (or $1.40 by four cents a mile). And the great part is that, just like income tax, they won't see the per gallon increase, they just get a bill at the end of the month that they have to pay.
Way to double, triple, or more the gas tax without looking like it.
Also, by the law of unintended consequences, by removing the tax from the gas, it makes it more cost effective to buy an older, cheaper gas guzzler, than a new, expensive, hybrid car. Thanks for destroying the environment, morons.
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We are coming up with all sorts of expensive plans to try to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and reduce the consumption of foreign oil, so why are we also trying to come up with a way to reduce the incentive to get a more fuel efficient car? Instead we should be massively increasing the tax on gasoline and possibly offering a flat rebate to counteract the regressive nature of use based taxes. That way tax revenue would keep up with decreasing demand and we would actually be naturally moving the market towards our long term goals.
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They already do write down the mileage when you get the emissions checked. Not for the safety check I think. The info is in the DMV database. maybe the DMV database is so screwed up that the tax people do not want to touch it.
How much of your mileage isn't on public roads? For most people, I'd guess almost none (up and down the driveway doesn't account for much for my trip into work each day). So, tough shit. No system is going to be perfect.
Like it or not, a direct result of higher fuel prices is a drop is demand. Regardless of your views on oil production/drilling/exploration, it seems like it would be in everyone's best interest to use less fuel.
There was once--many years ago--talk of taxing motor fuel to reduce consumption. While I never personally agreed with the proposal, the idea of removing taxes from gasoline (which would make it appear cheaper to consumers) seems like a step in the wrong direction.
I wonder who is advising the "federal commission" on the options available to them? Why on earth would they decide a massive new taxation infrastructure was the "best path forward" unless they were being advised by someone who would benefit in some way from the massive purchase of new GPS tracking equipment?
Call me a curmudgeon, but I'd really like to know...
You have the right to remain silent. If you don't, anything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
Something that might get more Americans to ride bicycles.
"Technology.....the knack of so arranging the world that we don't have to experience it." Max Firsch
Right now we don't need anything to discourage moving toward electric / hybrid / high mileage vehicles. The environmental benefits and economic benefits of removing the need for foreign oil would far outweigh whatever revenue the government would receive.
Eventually they could probably come up with an electric metering system for plug-ins which would be far less intrusive than having a GPS watching you all the time.
It does if the states decide to piggyback off the service as well, and you can rest assured that they'll want to. Since federal fuel taxes are dropping it means state fuel taxes are also declining for the exact same reasons. They'll likely want to use this system to tax drivers on their state roads, and to do that you need the accuracy & tracking that GPS provides.
There is no way in hell that the government will remove any gas taxes, they will just add the per mile tax.
Yes we can!
2 year commission. Just concluded.. Hmm...
Think about it.
Then stfu.
The more I read about the Feds trying to impose new taxes while simultaneously trying to acquire new personal data the more I want to start an art project called "myspieduponlife.com." This project will consist of paying a willing participant to film and record all details of their life and upload the content daily to a website for global peer review.
I think I would get a sense of a couple things from this project; how much data is used to completely document a single humans daily life, and how much of that data is completely irrelevant to everyone but the subject. I think it could answer some philosophical questions regarding Big Brother watching you.
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
"the Prius drivers have more of an impact on the roads because they can drive much further (and cause much more wear on the roads) than the Hummer drivers."
The Prius weighs in at just over 3000 lbs, the Hummer H3 at just over 6000. How is the Prius with it's smaller wheels and less weight going to do MORE damage to roads no matter how far they drive? Seems like the way to measure the damage is per mile right, not vehicle range?
C.
"Doctor, it's not the voices I hear in MY head, but the voices I hear in YOUR head that really frighten me."
Umm, the data is coming off a GPS unit, all they have to do (and trust me they have this in mind already) is say, Oh, we need to know where you go so we know where to send the tax money and suddenly they have a "legitimate" and "reasonable" reason to track each persons vehicular movements.
To think that that data would not be subject to the same "mission creep" that every other government collection of anything is subject to is ludicrous.
Even if the initial legislation explicitly forbids any other uses they will simply write new laws later allowing it, probably to foil terrorists or the help the children.
I'm not a tinfoil hatter but DAMN! This one stinks!
Taking government at face value and looking at their past they will introduce this but not totally do away with the fuel tax. It will be rolled back into effect so we are then paying for both. States like California and Illinois will be the first to tack on state taxes as well. I just got a GPS for my vehicle and it is a nice tool for travel but for the government to take something like this to "tax" people is just too much. This requirement alone will raise the cost of every vehicle because it will require one to be installed in the car. Then there will be the introduction of a yearly "fee" to use it for directions. Another boon for taxation and for companies that produce it.
Agreed. It would be so much cheaper to just raise the fuel tax. The mechanism is already in place (gas stations collect it, just change the amount if you need more money) and by taxing fuel not miles, it encourages fuel economy. I just don't get it. Unless of course the real reason is to track everyone.
..GPS tracking by the government shows how far apart we are just in general principles as per my above first reply about how far we are into a full police state and how people have been slowly conditioned to accept it and not even see it. I remember saying the same thing about electronic computerized voting way back here before it even started, when it was a lot more popular in concept because it was "computerized', high tech, so it just must be mo' bettah. I called shenanigans then as well, because I could see the obvious high level abuse potential and how they could hack elections easier. And most likely, they have, given all the evidence that has come out since the 2000 elections to today.
Same deal here, just part of their NWO stew of crap they keep throwing at the people and making "law". From my POV, just at a very basic and important level, the GPS tracking itself is an outright outrageous *abuse*, let alone *charging* you cash money for this dubious privilege.
And like I said, it has nothing to do with revenue, that's the misdirection part, the con they are using to push this. I already outlined a completely viable alternative for both increasing road maintenance revenue, plus reducing the cost of fuel to the driver, without any obnoxious big brother tracking required.
We'll have to more or less agree to disagree on at least a few points here. I'm just lucky enough to remember living when such things would have been almost automatically vilified and would have stood no chance in hell of being made "law"..now..looks like the goons are winning "hearts and minds". Sadly.
And I will keep pointing out when that is happening, or when it looks to happen, like with this issue. Because I actually care about old fashioned personal freedoms and a strictly regulated and controlled government. An all powerful government with a strictly controlled population is not the original design here.
Heh, I am in farming, I can recognize easily when a farmer is controlling his herd, I do it daily, what needs to happen. You have to do surveillance, control, and watch your fences. Look around at government now, what do you see? What I see has way too many parallels for complacency or for me to accept it is anything other than what it looks like, using occam's razor.