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Sony Files Patent On "Any-Object" Motion Control

Oracle Goddess writes "Sony filed a patent for a system where a camera can dynamically map any real world object for use in a video game. The patent states that the objects 'include items such as coffee mugs, drinking glasses, books, bottles, etc.' While these are given as examples, the object mapping system is not limited to those objects; it can identify any three dimensional object. The system looks similar to Microsoft's Project Natal, but instead of driving with an imaginary steering wheel, players can use an everyday item like a plate. Although this may seem a bit silly at first, the eventual uses for such a system could be wide-ranging and lead to novel and useful controllers for all sorts of systems and applications."

69 comments

  1. What is Japanese for... by kulakovich · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Prior Art"?

    kulakovich

    1. Re:What is Japanese for... by nschubach · · Score: 1

      You have a released product that shows this technology in action?

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:What is Japanese for... by Rebelgecko · · Score: 1

      There's a similar program for windows. I forgot the name, but it was talked about on slashdot a handful of months ago. You scan an object in front of your webcam and use it as a controller for games and even programs already on your computer i.e. using a pen as a joystick to zoom around in Google Earth. I think it had the word "cam" somewhere in it's name.

      --
      CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
    3. Re:What is Japanese for... by Rebelgecko · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hmmm that was easier to find than I thought. It's called camspace. http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/16/1326238 and http://www.camspace.com/ are the relevant links. Apparently a mac version is in the works as well.

      --
      CATS/Diebold '08- All your vote are belong to us!
  2. Processor by hurting+now · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    So what proc will they use for this? There current choice is highly suspect (imo)...

  3. I hope they make money on the patent... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    'cause they sure won't make much selling special controllers anymore.

  4. I got your controller right here! by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 4, Funny

    As with all inventions, this will lead to ungodly adult game uses.

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    stuff |
    1. Re:I got your controller right here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the average god's behavior, I would use the phrase "godly" instead.

    2. Re:I got your controller right here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe this system only works for the male species.

    3. Re:I got your controller right here! by thewils · · Score: 1

      IANAB (Biologist) but I don't think you could ever have a completely male species. The word you were looking for, I believe, is 'gender'.

      --
      Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    4. Re:I got your controller right here! by Doggabone · · Score: 1

      Considering the average god's behavior, I would use the phrase "godly" instead.

      Also, there is the high number of times "God" is mentioned during many adult activities.

  5. You can dynamically map my .... by planckscale · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ....

    --
    Namaste
    1. Re:You can dynamically map my .... by planckscale · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      ...natalie portman covered in hot grits...

      --
      Namaste
    2. Re:You can dynamically map my .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... shiny metal ass?

    3. Re:You can dynamically map my .... by planckscale · · Score: 1

      I'll drink to that!

      --
      Namaste
  6. Common objects by arigram · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Other "common" objects that would be just asking to be used in a game: - Swords, knives - Batons, staves, nunchucks - Guns, rifles - insert lethal weapon of your choice here) I mean, you're playing an FPS or an RPG and you can use any item as a controller? Who can resist going overboard with realism!

    1. Re:Common objects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      new warning label:

      Ensure chamber is clear and magazine is empty before starting game.

    2. Re:Common objects by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, a wiimote hitting your TV is nothing in comparison to a bullet.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    3. Re:Common objects by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Yeah, now instead of handling a controller that feels like a dinner plate I can just get a dinner plate...

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  7. Not even oxiclean by BillyMays · · Score: 3, Insightful

    can take the stains out of patent law that allows things like this. What if a user wants to use a wiimote as their motion device of choice with Sony's system? At that point does it fall under Sony's blanket patent? This is like carpet bombing - no specific target, just try and cover as much ground as you can.

    1. Re:Not even oxiclean by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got to disagree. This is pretty brilliant. Basically taking anything you'd pretend to be a weapon as a kid, and turn it into an in-game weapon.

      Plastic light sabers become real ones. Even if your light saber of choice is the Wiimote

    2. Re:Not even oxiclean by clone53421 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The patent covers the method for detecting and tracking the object. It has nothing to do with patenting the object itself. I see no reason there would be any legal issue with using a Wiimote as a visually-tracked controller – although I'm quite sure that none of the buttons would work, since it's basically just tracking the movement of the rectangular white object.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    3. Re:Not even oxiclean by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I'd say (b) and (d) are the particular claims which are not relevant to the Wii's motion tracking remote. The Wii doesn't care about "geometric defining parameters" of the three-dimensional object. It's not tracked by (visual) geometric parameters but rather by radio-frequency communications. Sony's patent claim hinges on these: it is able to track ANY object based on the "geometric defining parameters" of the object itself – e.g. by its shape (and its colour, I'd assume, although I wouldn't consider that to be a geometric parameter of the object).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  8. Isn't that what Sony showed on stage? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Sony also showed off some video motion recognition stuff, only they used tagged controllers the video could recognize from the markings. Rather than being "just like natal" it sounds like what they showed.

    It seems like you have to have some kind of object to interact with to make a game interesting, otherwise simple body movements alone are too limiting and clumsy. Even just using a lightsaber, you have to have some way to turn it on and off - you didn't see obi-wan using voice controls or resorting to the Clapper.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Isn't that what Sony showed on stage? by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I don't really see that being much of a problem. Either make the lightsaber automatically activate when opponents are nearby, or just leave it active all the time... it's not like you'd end up inadvertently slicing your leg off if the saber is left on like you probably would if you were running around with a real lightsaber (okay, lightsabers aren't real... but you get my point).

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  9. Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTS:

    [I]nstead of driving with an imaginary steering wheel, players can use an everyday item like a plate.

    What about the plastic steering wheel that came with Mario Kart Wii? Would that work?

  10. Fly simulators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see a surge in flight simulator popularity. Not only do you have a built-in joystick you can also jack off using the same hand!

    1. Re:Fly simulators by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Whoa, that's a... big gun.

      (Bruce Campbell, Tachyon: The Fringe - sound test)

  11. But ... but ... by powerlord · · Score: 1

    Although this may seem a bit silly at first, the eventual uses for such a system could be wide-ranging and lead to novel and useful controllers for all sorts of systems and applications.

    But this is SONY!!! Where is the unmitigated HATE in the summary?

    I mean, I WANT to buy lots of shaped plastic and form for absurd $$$ from Nintendo. Doesn't everyone?

    And besides, everyone knows that MS are the only ones to Innovate in the whole computer business. I mean, if it weren't for them we'd all be using abacuses ... without even the helpful advice of Clippy!

    --
    This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    1. Re:But ... but ... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Dripping sarcasm aside, it's not about hate for Sony or love for MS... it's just that these sorts of patents seem to put up more roadblocks to widespread adoption of a technology than anything else, so they're not exactly bound to be popular. Take the example of rumble in game controllers, for example. My PS3, for example, has no rumble feature in the controller. As such, I either have to purchase a new controller AFTER the patent licensing has been worked out, or I can just buy the game for my 360 instead. For users that don't own all the current consoles, it was, I'm sure, rather annoying to go without a last-generation feature that adds a lot of immersiveness to games (at least for me, it does).

      Personally, I'm not completely anti-patent like a lot of people here are. I do think software and 'business process' patents should be abolished, though, and I think the US patent office should take a hard look at reducing the length of some types of patents in which 17 years is an ungodly long time to have a patent.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:But ... but ... by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think software patents are stupid anyway. You can copyright software, but you shouldn't be able to patent it. Software is like a book. It tells you how to do something or it can entertain. If you could patent ideas on how that should happen or what it looks like (as in software) you will have publishing companies that patent character types in books (orcs, detectives, housewives), methods of page alignment, location of copyright, titles, separation of chapters or volumes, and all kinds of stupid things. Could you imagine if a book company could patent a method of aligning pages so that the numbers increment from 1 to X? What if they could patent the idea of a book about an ancient medieval castle, knights, and a horses...

      Patents should only apply to physical objects.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  12. trading spouses by RemoWilliams84 · · Score: 1

    The first thing I though of was the Chapelle show "Trading Spouses" skit where the guy finds the woman's dildo and is waving it around like a light saber.

    --
    "I don't have to think. I only have to do it. The results are always perfect, but that's old news." - Meat Puppets
  13. Already Available: CamSpace by fpgaprogrammer · · Score: 3, Informative

    you can download camspace and use your webcam to track objects and control games right now:

    http://www.camspace.com/

    1. Re:Already Available: CamSpace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not prior art though because CamSpace uses magic: http://www.camspace.com/about

    2. Re:Already Available: CamSpace by markringen · · Score: 1

      or you just buy an old eyetoy game.

    3. Re:Already Available: CamSpace by Java+Pimp · · Score: 1

      Not prior art though because CamSpace uses magic: http://www.camspace.com/about

      Sure but magic predates all modern technology so it should still qualify...

      --
      Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
      Kull: She told me she was 19!
  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  15. Patent number? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

    Tried to find it here http://patft.uspto.gov/, but couldn't locate it. Anyone got the patent number?

    1. Re:Patent number? by mercosmique · · Score: 2, Informative

      The application number is 20090158220, not sure if that is what you mean or if it helps.

    2. Re:Patent number? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      Ah, didn't think of that. Thanks a lot for the link :)

    3. Re:Patent number? by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it does. I read the write-up thinking that that it had already been approved, so now wonder I didn't find it. Thanks.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. First thought... by AscianBound · · Score: 1

    Was anybody else's first thought......using your own penis as a joystick?

    No? I must have something wrong with me.....

    1. Re:First thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:First thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks to the wonders of duct tape, I've been doing this since November 2006

  18. Sounds un-fun by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Either make the lightsaber automatically activate when opponents are nearby, or just leave it active all the time...

    That doesn't sound like much of a game to me - much of the fun is turning the thing on and off! In fact I have to say, that I'd prefer a game where you simply turn lightsabers on and off to some Star Wars games we've had over the years...

    A Star Wars game does seem the most likely candidate for a good adaptation for full-body controls, though frankly I doubt the general populace is going to be doing flips much.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Sounds un-fun by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Either make the lightsaber automatically activate when opponents are nearby, or just leave it active all the time...

      That doesn't sound like much of a game to me - much of the fun is turning the thing on and off! In fact I have to say, that I'd prefer a game where you simply turn lightsabers on and off to some Star Wars games we've had over the years...

      Yeah, talk about a mood killer when you're walking down a dark hallway and your lightsaber turns itself on telling you that there's an enemy nearby. Or how about walking up to a door first to see if there's an enemy behind it before opening it. Sounds lame to me. When did Jedi Sense ever automatically turn on the sabers? What if it's a more powerful Sith hiding behind the wall and it's blocking the force?

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Sounds un-fun by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      meh, that's fairly tame compared to the games where your Jedi character always has his lightsaber turned on and will automatically block incoming blaster bolts without you even doing anything.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  19. Been done? by argent · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure I've seen this demoed, might even have come in a demo with a Logitech camera I got several years ago.

  20. Prior Art by Gumshoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The system looks similar to Microsoft's Project Natal, but instead of driving with an imaginary steering wheel, players can use an everyday item like a plate.

    You can hold "everyday item's like a plate" with Natal too. The difference is that you don't have to for it to work.

    1. Re:Prior Art by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      The system looks similar to Microsoft's Project Natal, but instead of driving with an imaginary steering wheel, players can use an everyday item like a plate.

      You can hold "everyday item's like a plate" with Natal too. The difference is that you don't have to for it to work.

      An interesting question - considering Natal also tracks body motion and location, could the "everyday item" be something like your hand/fist? One of the Natal demo videos showed a family holding their fists above their upturned palm of the other to use as a gameshow buzzer (by lowering their fist to their hand).

      It's going to be interesting times between Sony's patent and Natal...

    2. Re:Prior Art by Gumshoe · · Score: 1

      I think the demo video for Natal went to ridiculous extremes to showcase the technology. The "hand buzzer" thing to which you refer being one, the invisible steering wheel being another. It's an interesting technology but I agree with Natal's detractors in that tactile feedback is important in many gaming situations.

      In my opinion, equating Natal with "hands free" is potentially a marketing mistake. But then again, "hands free" is more casual and that's a huge market so perhaps Microsoft is right. The beauty of Natal though is that it can, like the tech in this patent, do "hands on" too.

      That said, Sony's patent seems to be something else entirely. It claims to be able to recognise objects in 3d space and presumably, orientation of those objects. I'm afraid however that that is where my imagination fails me. I can't understand how that level of tech could be more effective in a gaming environment than what is already available (or soon to be). Anyone have any ideas?

  21. Another trollish patent by rollingcalf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is yet another patent where they haven't actually gotten the specified technology to work as described; they just patent it ahead of time so when somebody else gets it to work they can sue them. The USPTO needs to bring back the requirement for a working prototype.

    --
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    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    1. Re:Another trollish patent by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Sony has demonstrated facial recognition and object recognition before. Not exactly a baseball bat, but you could draw objects on paper and the EyeToy would implement it into a game.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Another trollish patent by rollingcalf · · Score: 1

      But they haven't implemented anything as fancy as what is described in the patent.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    3. Re:Another trollish patent by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Facial Recognition is hardly real world mapping of 3d objects. it is more pattern recognition and either way such technologies have been around for decades, including the idea of 3d mapping, not sure how they can possibly claim this is innovative/new/non obvious. Sounds more like they are trying to preempt where nintendo and Microsoft are already going to try and maybe win in courts where they failed in technology.

    4. Re:Another trollish patent by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The USPTO needs to bring back the requirement for a working prototype.

      Agreed. Why should inventors who aren't backed by major corporations with multi-million dollar research and development labs be entitled to patents? Our Founding Fathers certainly didn't envision a world where someone could invent something, write it up in hundreds of pages of such extreme detail that anyone with the resources could build it, and get a patent without ever having actually shelled out millions of dollars to prototype it.

  22. Prior Art, bigtime. by ikekrull · · Score: 1

    If theres anything in this patent that isn't described in detail in this book:

    http://www.robots.ox.ac.uk/~vgg/hzbook/

    and/or implemented in this library:

    http://www.cs.indiana.edu/cgi-pub/oleykin/website/OpenCVHelp/

    i'll be pretty damn surprised.

    --
    I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
  23. Scooby Doo and the Phantom virus by Ontheotherhand · · Score: 0

    Scooby doo went there years ago. could an animation count as prior art?

  24. words have gender, people have sex by Xtifr · · Score: 1

    Gender is a linguistic term; a grammatical category for words. The term that covers male and female members of a species is "sex".

    Actually, as someone who generally favors description over prescription in language, the above claim might seem a trifle hypocritical, but the fact is, I simply like saying "words have gender, people have sex". :)

    Furthermore, the use of the namby-pamby term "gender" in cases where "sex" works just fine--merely because some clueless people might feel it's risque or something--is the kind of politically correct garbage that makes me want to kick some...ass. Not bottom, not hiney, not rear, not posterior--ass.

    1. Re:words have gender, people have sex by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The poor donkeys...

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  25. Not quite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The way the patent system works, all they have to do is add one little phrase to all this "per existing tech" and make it innovative. In this case, blah blah blah (the stuff you mentioned) followed by "to control an object or avatar within a virtual world".

    Bam! USPTO considers it innovative cuz no one else has done all the blah blah blah "to control an object or avatar within a virtual world".

    1. Re:Not quite by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The way the patent system works, all they have to do is add one little phrase to all this "per existing tech" and make it innovative. In this case, blah blah blah (the stuff you mentioned) followed by "to control an object or avatar within a virtual world".

      Bam! USPTO considers it innovative cuz no one else has done all the blah blah blah "to control an object or avatar within a virtual world".

      35 USC 103. Prior art reference 1 describes the existing tech. Prior art reference 2 describes controlling an avatar. The motivation to combine them is to use the existing tech to control an avatar in a new and intuitive way.

      So, no, that's not "the way the patent system works". You appear to understand 35 USC 102 and novelty, but have completely missed 103 and obviousness.

  26. MS Surface? by TrancePhreak · · Score: 0

    I've seen surface videos where everyday objects were recognized, not to mention someone else pointed out OpenCV. Seems like Sony has been blindfolded for this kind of stuff.

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    -]Phreak Out[-
  27. joy, sticks. by bronney · · Score: 1

    Wow Wing Commander just become so much fun. I can't wait.

  28. Nintendo ON by Dwedit · · Score: 1

    Remember the fake Nintendo ON video? Even that featured mapping real objects into the game world.