Of Science and Choice In Online Dating

Must be summertime, as online publications turn to the contemplation of Internet dating. The NY Times's piece (registration may be required) takes a not particularly deep look at the reality behind the "science" claims of chemistry.com, eHarmony.com, and others. "The question is how much it really matters to users if the methods have any scientific basis. A friend of mine... said she looked at several dating sites and chose the ones that looked like they had 'the least riffraff.'" Technology Review focuses on studies showing that the overwhelming number of choices presented by many dating sites can be counterproductive: "...more search options lead to less selective processing by reducing users' cognitive resources, distracting them with irrelevant information, and reducing their ability to screen out inferior options." The article concludes with a look at the startup Omnidate, which offers technology for 3D virtual dating. The site has had twice as many women (by percentage) sign up as the other dating sites typically see.

Comments

It's the number of zeros that matter

[Colin Smith]

In the salary cheque that is.

No?

The camera doesn't lie:
http://collegeotr.s3.amazonaws.com/images/blogs/b422245a96af7340b70921c641e0b6db.jpg

Simple. Set up a dating site which costs a thousand+ a month for guys but is free for women.

 

Re:It's the number of zeros that matter

[maxume]

Yeah, guys with thousands to spend on online dating but no success picking up women otherwise will flock to the site.

By guys, I of course mean those 5 guys like that, nationwide.

Re:It's the number of zeros that matter

[johnlcallaway]

I was approached by one of those dating services 6 years ago to 'just come in and talk'. So I used it as a chance to hone my negotiating skills and went in. I found some nice ladies that had me fill out some forms, then explain how great their service was. They told me how nice it was to have a 'nice guy' come in, by which I think they meant someone polite, considerate, and well employed. They told me that they only accept employed people without criminal backgrounds.

Then they told me it costs $3,500. I almost laughed at them and suggested that that was a little high just to meet someone. They then went through the schpeal about how they do all these checks and everything. I still said it was too much. They came down in price. Still too much.

Finally, they asked me how much I thought it was worth. I told them that I'd pay $500. At which time they concluded my interview.

I left that day with the thought that if there truly were more women than men in this service, it's only because men won't spend $3,500 to meet women because they don't need to.

Three years later I rediscovered an old high school friend and sent her a 'Hello!! How ya doing??' email with no intention of dating. We sent a few emails, started calling, flew 2,000 miles to visit several times, and got married 10 months later. And joked that we never had a real date because we already knew each other and had never dated in high school.

2 1/2 years later later we are still very happy together, have sex regularly, and enjoy being with each other. Worked better than my first marriage by a long shot.

Maybe people should just stop dating and learn how to experience life and just get out and do things. My friends that try the hardest to meet someone are the ones that are the least successful at it.

Re:It's the number of zeros that matter

[Orion Blastar]

What would you call such a service? Golddiggers.com? For women who only want to date rich men?

Science, lol?

[Manip]

Do people even know what they want from a partner?

People talk and talk about wanting this trait and that trait but they often seem to date people that are nothing like they claim they want. I'm honestly convinced people in general have no idea what they want, so by extension I struggle to see how you could create a site that offers people those things...

Random selection based on
  - Age
  - Geographic location
  - Large important decisions (e.g. Family, yes/no?)
  - A few shard interests

Would likely have a very high success rate.

Re:Science, lol?

[johnlcallaway]

When I was young, I thought I knew. But it wasn't until I was in my early 40s and had been married once and gone through a few relationships that I learned how naive I was when I was young. Each time a relationship ended, I add things to my list of 'must haves'. After I got divorced after being married for 18 years, I started to go out after work with fellow employees, both men and women, and realized I didn't have a clue about what I wanted in a partner. I started to see women I was interested in outside of work, but in a non-dating way, and realized that they looked great but had personality traits that I couldn't live with. Luckily, two dear lady friends helped me to understand what I needed to know and I'm now very happily married.

My opinion at my current age of 50 is that if a man is younger than 30 and has never lived with anyone for any length of time, he has no idea what he wants in a partner.

Except for big boobs.

Why online "dating" is useful

[StarKruzr]

It's not "dating" so much as it is being efficient by running the population through a filter. If I filter out all women under the age of 22, all political conservatives, and all evangelical Christians, I'm probably not missing out on the love of my life an it let's me focus on people I might actually be compatible with.

The reality is that the vast majority of people in the US seem to have gotten married because they figured "it was about time for that" or something similar. If you have anything resembling standards, dating is really, really fucking hard.

Hope that marrying someone wonderful and having a family isn't part of what you need to be really happy, because it sure as hell isn't guaranteed.

Easy for you to say

[StarKruzr]

Maybe people should just stop dating and learn how to experience life and just get out and do things. My friends that try the hardest to meet someone are the ones that are the least successful at it.

This is a very facile thing for someone in your position to say. For many of the rest of us "experiencing life" all by itself simply means interminable years of crushing loneliness.

I have started to come to the following realization:

Happiness is guaranteed to no one. The best one can expect out of life is that you can always find some way to respect yourself and say "I did something with my life that I can look myself in the mirror and approve of." That status of self-respect is prerequisite for happiness, but it is by no means a guarantor. There is every chance that you'll just get out there and do your thing and live your life and be alone and lonely right up until the day you die.

Re:Easy for you to say

[johnlcallaway]

I lived in a loveless, sexless marriage for many years and was single for another 8. I didn't get married until I was 24, and only had one long-term relationship before then. I spent many a night alone when I was young and didn't know any better ... like you are apparently. I didn't realize how little I knew about life and living it. After I got divorced, I still spent nights alone, but didn't care because I had developed friendships over the years.

What I have seen from those around me is that when someone spends their life having friends and going out in the REAL world and doing things, then they won't be lonely and will meet someone that, oddly enough, enjoys doing the same things they do. When I turned 40, I discovered what a great thing it was to have women friends .. women who trust that you are not going to try and screw them the first chance you have. I was going out all the time having a grand time with people I truly had a blast with, and with no pressure to be someone other than myself. And I don't mean going out and getting drunk, I mean shooting pool and going to concerts and having dinners and going to bars to listen to music and comedians instead of getting wasted. You know .. enjoying all that life has to offer. What a concept .. too bad more people don't learn it.

So .. unless no one likes to be around you, you are the only reason you are alone. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something about it.

BTW .. facile is a snooty word for easy. Maybe that's part of your problem.

Re:Easy for you to say

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like a true extrovert.

Some people reject the "real" world because it is too overwhelming to them. Concerts, comedy clubs, bars, etc., wear them out. They still do these things, but only once in a while. They just don't have the will do do them on a regular basis.

When they meet someone at these places, they can't keep up. They get exhausted by the other person's constant demand for going out and being social. Once in a while is too little for one, and too much for the other.

It is all well and good to say "well get over it, crybaby, and learn how to have fun" when you are in the 70% + of people who are born extroverts, and who have nervous systems that naturally incline them to that level of social activity.

Introverts are not antisocial, they just need lower levels of stimulation. They want to stay in with a small group of familiar friends and role play or watch movies or play video games or whatever. This lifestyle, however, does not provide many opportunities to meet significant others who are also introverts and would make a perfect match...the groups of friends that introverts form don't often have occasion to mix with one another. And activities that make them mix are always an uphill battle for an introvert.

Keep sitting in judgment if you want...but you are not an introvert and you just don't know what it is like to be one.

Be that as it may....

Internet dating sucks just as badly for introverts as any other form of dating. The websites are awash with extroverts seeking other extroverts...half the introverts won't even post pictures...the introvert women are driven away from the sites because they dislike being bombarded by "sleep with me right now" offers. It sucks worse for men because there are always a lot more men on the sites than women too, leaving the introverted men feeling like they are up against competition that is just too fierce.

Whether on the internet, in the "real world" or wherever, human nature is always drawn to physical attraction first, and personality compatibility second. Hot people date only other hot people. Average people chase after hot people for a while, and then eventually settle for other average people. Some of them find happiness that way, others just find a new form of loneliness (she's right here, but we can't connect, etc.). Ugly people also sometimes settle for other ugly people, but many of them just face the reality of loneliness for their entire lives.

Only silly sentimentality promises us that there is some perfect person out there for us. Some of us just have to accept the fact that we don't measure up, that the only mates we could have are ones that will not make us happy, and that we will be alone all our lives. It is not a popular idea so it will be rejected out-of-hand by anyone who has not lived this reality. But for those of us who find ourselves in this circumstance, it is as real as the real world could ever be.

The acceptance of this state (when true) can motivate you to stop trying to make someone else responsible for your happiness, and to take responsibility for your happiness yourself. Study, meditation, and other forms of personal self-actualization can take one to interesting places when perused vigorously. It may just be a consolation prize, but it is better than wallowing is depression and self pity all your life.

Re:Easy for you to say

[dominion]

How Not To Fail At Life:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6827/howtonotfailatlifepn3he9.png

(The best advice you will ever get from 4Chan)

Re:Easy for you to say

[oliderid]

I work nights and don't drink alcohol, which excludes me from nearly everything. My main hobby is working on a website about a subject so niche that it takes people from half a dozen states to form a small group interested in it, and my other hobbies are solitary activities. When it comes to other people, the "real" world seems to revolve around mind games, vapid conversation, and lying to and about yourself, all of which I abhor, and would do so even if I were able to form coherent sentences around someone I find attractive. The only woman I ever loved rejected me completely, destroying the remnants of my self-esteem, my desire to succeed, and my faith. As a matter of fact, she is getting married today.

Well I'm 34. I noticed some of my experiences mid 20's. Here are few advices for you:

• Stop watching so many porn. Women are not fantasy. Another problem with porn is that it biases your view on sexuality.
• Believe it or not, Women need also to be seduced, if you look like a mess, you have no chance. Take care of yourself and your appearance.
• Be realistic. If you are overweight, you have more probability to seduce another overweight person. If you seriously want to seduce a fit person, well have a diet (I did, it works). Yes they are superficial...Just like you. Do you seriously expect them to be better than you on that topic?
• Relearn to "smile"...Women are looking for a nice partner to have "nice time" with...They aren't looking for a depressed person to take care of.
• Be "friendly" and once you notice common interest, say openly what you really think. Don't try to play games or hide your feelings...If you do it, they will find you aren't serious and you become a threat, not an opportunity.
• Forget all these cliches you have eaten since your childhood. A girl hasn't to be like a fashion model to be desirable. There is a whole world between a fashion model and an ugly cow.
• In this world there are around 50% of men and 50% of women...So there "must" be a girl feeling lonely just like you.
• If you really want to meet a woman, go out. Try to find a place where you can actually meet women. There are plenty of places dedicated to single people anywhere in Europe or in the USA...Well anywhere on earth actually. Turned that f** pc off each weekend.
• Look around you, I'm sure there is an idiot who actually got married and he seems to be happy. If he could do it, why not you?
• Don't expect that she will first introduce herself. It rarely happens, and for most of us it never happens :-). Introduce yourself first. Again in a simple and friendly way. Don't force your chance either. Be cool and patient.
• Do not focus yourself on a single woman. You aren't in a relationship you are free to (and you must) keep all options open.

Abandon all logic ye who enter here

[syousef]

...at least when it comes to attraction.

Getting into a relationship you better use your head or your life will turn to crap. You've do NOT want to hook up with someone who's self centered and irrational.

But determining if there'll be sparks....forget the science and go with your gut. Most of the people you "should" get along with based on statistical methods and science you will find boring. Many of the people you shouldn't be attracted to will turn you into a horny toad. The trick is to find someone who's good for you, and be good to them back. Oh and by the way those hormones that make the sex great will make any kind of reasoned rational logic go out the window at least for some of your relationship.

Re:There's also okcupid

[Captain Vittles]

That 'free' bit is a great selling point but is probably one of the site's biggest flaws. The comment in the summary about 'a site with the least riff-raff' isn't just a silly notion. When I used OKCupid regularly, I encountered a large number of women I would classify as crazy. That's not to say the other sites manage to filter out 100% of the crazies but personal experience has shown a connection between 'Cheap' and 'Crazy,' thus a free site is going to have a higher proportion of 'riff-raff.'

We need fewer virtual relationships

[darpo]

I'm in my late 20s, have done the online dating thing off and on since college, as well as asking out people in real life. If I go back and think about which were the best relationships/sex in terms of online vs offline meeting, offline meeting tended to be the best. There's just far too much useful information you get from seeing someone up close, listening them talk, watching their body language. We have lots of mental machinery dedicated to parsing that stuff, and almost none of it is activated during online dating (even pictures are no good, because they're so often old photos or outright deceptive).

So, at this point in my life, I'm trying to reduce the amount of time I spend on IM, forums, computer games, etc. and spend more time around real people in the real world. I think it happens to a lot of nerds as we get older. We look back and realize we don't have much to show for all the thousands of hours spent on inane IRC conversations, first person shooters, and forum flame wars. All that stuff is so much emptiness when you get right down to it...

...with the exception of Slashdot, of course. ;-)

Re:The biggest problem with dating...

[fractoid]

What are the downsides?

No boobs to play with. Sore ass. Did I mention no boobs?