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Kazaa To Return As a Legal Subscription Service

suraj.sun sends in this excerpt from CNet: "One of the most recognizable brands in the history of illegal downloading is due to officially resurface, perhaps as early as next week, sources close to the company told CNET News. Only this time the name Kazaa will be part of a legal music service. Altnet and parent company Brilliant Digital Entertainment attached the Kazaa brand to a subscription service that will offer songs and ringtones from all four of the major recording companies. For the past few months, a beta version has been available. The company tried recently to ratchet up expectations with a series of vague, and what some considered misguided, press releases. The site will open with over 1 million tracks." The NYTimes has a related story about how the music industry is trying to convert casual pirates by offering more convenient new services.

30 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Kazaa sucked even when it was a vehicle for illegal downloads. I can't see the music industry (motto: "fuck the pirates, fuck the artists, and fuck YOU") improving it at all.

    1. Re:Subject by lorenlal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, certainly the ad/spyware that it was a tunnel for sucked. It certainly worked well enough for a lot of sucker^H^H^H^H^H^H noob^H^H^H^H casual users out there well enough that they considered it essential software on campus. In fact, when looking for songs before the RIAA interference tracks, it did deliver on its core function... grabbing the song you want from other people.

      Up until Napster, and then Audiogalaxy, and then Kazaa(lite), I had to depend on browsing the various PCs on campus to find songs. It was a pretty darn slow and manual process.

      Wait... Prank post! Prank post! I can't believe that anyone would download from someone else directly! [NO CARRIER]

  2. No DRM by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about if they try to offer something better than the pirates?

    No DRM, region locking/restrictions, convenience, etc.

    --
    If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    1. Re:No DRM by garcia · · Score: 2, Informative

      How about if they try to offer something better than the pirates?

      They can never beat free, sorry.

    2. Re:No DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lower price isn't the only way to compete. "Better" is not the same as "cheaper".

    3. Re:No DRM by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's possible. "Extremely cheap, convenient, and worry-free" can beat "Free, hard to find, and worried-about-malware-and-getting-sued".

    4. Re:No DRM by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can beat free with convenience and accessibility.

      Take the Linux of, say, 2000 and compare it to Windows 2000. The former was free. The latter was more popular. Yes, because it was bundled and people were duped into thinking Windows is the be-all end-all, but there's more to it. I know a few people who tried Linux and found it complicated, they switched back to Windows. It might be different today (Ubuntu is in some areas way more convenient than Windows), but with the half-assed installers of early days, a lot of manual configuration (with command line!) and stuff that doesn't "just work", people dropped free for convenient.

      The same can work for content. To beat free, you have to be easier to use and more convenient than free. Apple and iTunes went that way, and with some success. It's easy and hassle free to buy in that store, it's well organized and it offers what people want, with reliable quality. Compared to the free alternative, it's more convenient (no need to configure anything in your firewall, no need to find trackers or peers...), it's better organized (no need to ponder how it might have been named, no sifting through "insider" taggings) and more reliable in the quality of your product (you get that song. Not a (deliberately or accidently) mislabeled one, not in some shoddy, useless quality).

      The only way to compete with 'free' is to offer more. People are willing to pay for convenience. The problem is that they get less with the current system of crippling DRM. The free stuff is, well, first of all free AND also more convenient to use because it does work on every player, any time you want, and without that sword of damocles hanging over your head, i.e. that the organisation offering it might close the shop and you're sitting there with data junk.

      Nothing beats free AND more convenient/reliable, that's a given.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:No DRM by rampant+mac · · Score: 3, Informative
      "It's possible. "Extremely cheap, convenient, and worry-free" can beat "Free, hard to find, and worried-about-malware-and-getting-sued"."

      That's, I think, exactly the reason iTunes is the juggernaut that it is... Quality: Good Enough to the ears of mere mortals. Cheap: People arguing over the price of iTunes music while sipping on a $7 Sapporo? Awesome. Worry free: Is there a remote vector to inject a virus/trojan? Possibly. It'd be damn hard though. I'm more worried about Apple releasing a version of iTunes that's buggy as hell and messes up my music library that I've spent years building. That's why I keep backups though! ;)

      --
      I like big butts and I cannot lie.
    6. Re:No DRM by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Better" is not the same as "cheaper".

      True, but seems to be equivalent for an astonishing number of people. I dare say, most people.

    7. Re:No DRM by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Last time I checked Amazon is doing fine despite the recession. What's your argument?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. The pay step by ammorais · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As long as the complexity of downloading files trough a "legal" service is bigger than the complexity of the alternatives, people will always prefer the easiest choice.

    The complexity of "legal" services will always be bigger than the alternatives, since you can always subtract at least one step: the pay step.

    1. Re:The pay step by TinBromide · · Score: 3, Funny

      the zune subscription tied with the zune software is incredibly easy and perfectly legal. $15 bucks a month and you get unlimited access to music that lasts as long as your subscription, you do, however, get to keep 10 songs a month that are included with the cost of the subscription. I use it for my listening needs because i don't need to hoard music forever, being able to play an album for a month or two and then delete it is precisely what I need in a service. Yes its drm, Yes its not my music, but i'm perfectly aware of that and I'm ok with it. I "rent" books from the library and "rent" movies from Netflix, why not music?

      P.S. Its amazing how fast it is too, I mean you have microsoft hosting 2 million songs and only 6 people are using it. Songs download LIKE THAT! *snaps fingers*

      Imagine how slow bittorrent would be if only 6 people used it...

      --
      Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
  4. Why do they even bother? by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even the biggest brand out there, Napster, failed to capture any of its former glory as a pay service despite the ad blitz and continued media coverage.

    It's like shutting down a brothel and replacing it with a legitimate massage parlor. Would you fly out to Reno, Nevada to get a deep tissue massage at the retooled Bunny Ranch? These are kinds of questions these execs are not asking.

    1. Re:Why do they even bother? by ammorais · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why do they even bother?

      Because they have plenty of money from the work of others to expend.

    2. Re:Why do they even bother? by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 3, Funny

      Given the choice, yeah sure, I'm definitely going to use a service whose name is synonymous with poor quality, malware ridden files.
      It's like resurrecting the name J. T. Ripper & Sons as a personal protection service for lone wimmin.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    3. Re:Why do they even bother? by nine-times · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right, that's what I was thinking. If it didn't work for Napster, why would it work for Kazaa? At the time Napster went legit, it was still pretty much *the* name of music downloads. It was to online music almost what Xerox is to photocopying.

      Now? Napster may be making money, but they don't seem to be any kind of a market force. Any music store has to contend with the 900 pound gorilla in the room, which is iTunes. Fine, I know there are people here who think Apple and the iPod are overblown, but they are a huge player and we may as well acknowledge that. Besides iTunes, Amazon isn't exactly a lightweight. So how's Kazaa going to compete?

      And it looks like their approach is a DRMed subscription service. Have DRMed subscription services been doing well? Has there been a recent surge in WMA DRM players, or has the iPod started supporting Microsoft's DRM? I can't imagine wanting to compete in that market.

    4. Re:Why do they even bother? by booyabazooka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not every business enterprise has to be glorious. Napster piggybacked off of an existing brand, and it was probably at least a decent move for them.

      They seem to be doing okay. Just a few wikipedia quotes, take them or leave them...

      On April 3, 2007 Napster reported it had over 830,000 paid subscribers.

      September 15, 2008 - Napster is purchased by Best Buy for $121 million.

      So what if Kazaa-pay is not as nearly big as Kazaa-free was? If you're going to have a pay music service, it's still probably beneficial to call it Kazaa, just to have some name recognition.

    5. Re:Why do they even bother? by booyabazooka · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You forget that even the most ignorant of computer users recognizes that software becomes obsolete. If anything, it'll keep people away because they are going to think of it as an old program among a bunch of new, more up-to-date ones.

      Right, that's why no one trusts "Windows", "Office", "Internet Explorer", "Photoshop"... all of these shitty obsolete brands. Ignorant computer users are racing toward Ubuntu and OpenOffice because they're never heard of them, so they must be good!

    6. Re:Why do they even bother? by Voyager529 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Napster has three different models: buying a la carte tracks (which are in 256kbps DRM-Free MP3 files; pricing mirrors Napster), streaming subscriptions (monthly, quarterly, and annually; each also including MP3 download credits as well), and Napster-To-Go (which uses the WMA-DRM you reference).

      Two big things I think can be attributed to Napster's failure to make a significant dent in the market. The first is the iPod; I'm sure that most of us have friends who aren't aware that there are players beyond the iPod. Apple's bundling of a store with the player management software put it right in front of the target demographic, while Napster must be sought after. I'm not trying to start an anti-trust pissing match here, but the bottom line is that the majority of consumers aren't going to seek after an alternative solely on principle when a store is already available and integrated. The second is related: Choosing a DRM scheme that makes you the premiere music retailer to 10-20% of the MP3 player market pretty much relegated it to niche status to begin with...then making that DRM scheme the foundation of a Super Bowl ad campaign basically gave Napster the mindshare of being the incompatible iTunes wannabe.

      On a general note, subscription-based music downloads is one of the few places where I think that DRM has a place. If you're renting downloads, there must be some way of 'getting them back' if the user opts to unsubscribe. By its very nature, a subscription does not transfer ownership to the user, and I don't have a problem with that being enforced in such a context.

      If Napster had such an issue going legit, Kazaa is going to find an even steeper uphill battle. One of Napster's greatest strengths was that it exclusively transferred music files; swapping malware was quite the challenge when the only files that could be transferred were WAV and MP3. Kazaa installed adware to begin with; I personally credit Kazaa as being one of the apps to bring adware/spyware/malware into the public consciousness. It became such a problem that I knew plenty of people who had moved to other apps (including limewire) before Kazaa was shut down. Kazaa had a stigma around it when it was free; getting people to use a now-legal service still associated with ruining their computers when iTunes, Amazon, and Napster are already established and doing relatively well...let's just say that I don't see any smart venture capitalist throwing money their way.

  5. cpt obv by v1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The NYTimes has a related story about how the music industry is trying to convert casual pirates by offering more convenient new services.

    orly? Millions of people find our existing service so detestable that they turn to an illegal service to get what they want. Maybe, just maybe, there's a market for what they're looking for? Maybe we can make more money by selling them what they want instead of suing them?

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  6. It'll never work by jrothwell97 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "One of the most recognizable brands in the history of illegal downloading is due to officially resurface, perhaps as early as next week, sources close to the company told CNET News. Only this time the name Kazaa will be part of a legal music service. Altnet and parent company Brilliant Digital Entertainment attached the Kazaa brand to a subscription service that will offer songs and ringtones from all four of the major recording companies. For the past few months, a beta version has been available. The company tried recently to ratchet up expectations with a series of vague, and what some considered misguided, press releases. The site will open with over 1 million tracks."

    It's failed already. You have to pay money every month to listen to music you don't own. This is why subscription-based services have never worked - iTunes and Amazon offer (and have offered for a while), for a much more reasonable price, music that you get to keep forever, and, since the abolition of DRM, can do anything you want (within the law, of course *nudge nudge wink wink*) with.

    It didn't work for the Zune, it didn't work for Wippit, it's not working for Napster, it's not going to work for the relaunched Kazaa.

    --
    Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    1. Re:It'll never work by jrothwell97 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But you don't have to pay for Spotify.

      --
      Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
  7. Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death by six025 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a reason why the Pirate Bay is successful and it is rarely mentioned. Apart from the content being free, and DRM free, the service offered is generally agnostic to brands, labels or formats. It is like Google for media - raw results for any media query. Until the worlds media companies can agree to build a centralised service that is effectively neutral, services like the Pirate Bay will continue to flourish. It will probably never happen though, because they're all too busy stepping over each other in the race for the prize, while at the same time believing that whatever service they dream up next will be better than everything that has gone before it.

  8. Sounds good, until you take a closer look by BorgDrone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Although $20/month is a bit steep, I would consider this service were is not for a few limitations that make the service completely useless.

    1) Only available in the US. Really guys, it's time to start thinking globally, the rest of the internet has for the last 10 years.
    2) DRM, you don't really own the tracks, you can just play them for as long as you keep paying.
    3) Can't play it on an iPod/iPhone, or any (portable) media player

    If the music industry wants to get rid of piracy they have to start seeing them as competitors with a superior product. Since they cannot compete on price they have to compete on convenience and quality.

    1) Make it global
    2) Make sure EVERY song is there, not just the major labels
    3) Allow artists to upload directly to the service, offer them the possibility to cut out the middle man. Effectively: phase out all music labels, let them fade out into oblivion. Smart music labels could re-invent themselves as companies that sell services (studio time, marketing, etc.) to artists.
    4) No restrictions, no DRM, complete freedom.
    5) Make it affordable so Average Joe will not even consider going through the 'effort' of pirating music. Flat-fee is preferred (e.g. $9,99 /month would seem reasonable).

  9. Re:Nostalgia by Sheen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Doesnt work, my penis would be huge if that was true.

  10. Still fighting 1st gen by sakdoctor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All the first generation file sharing programs/protocols sucked.
    Kazaa. Napster. I personally found Gnutella worst of all.

    But this is hilarious. The music industry are so slow, that up until now they have been fighting decade old technology. Now they are digging up the corpses and attempting a reanimation.
    When will they get around to fighting the completely decentralised and encrypted services bound together by nothing more than a loose collection of opensource tools?

    *Reclines in chair with large box of popcorn*

  11. Amazon.com by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've just been buying music from Amazon. It's DRM-free, good quality and the pricing is generally just right. If they want to stop piracy just make everything available to everyone in this sort of format.

    This whole idea of things being available in certain territories is outdated and makes no sense on the internet but as long as it's around then people will just steal what they can't buy.

    1. Re:Amazon.com by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I've just been buying music from Amazon."

      "This whole idea of things being available in certain territories is outdated...."

      Amazon only sells music in a few, very limited areas.

      In fact, in many places Amazon itself is just an online book store.

  12. Only the searches are onion-routed by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When will they get around to fighting the completely decentralised and encrypted services bound together by nothing more than a loose collection of opensource tools?

    For performance reasons, only the searches are onion-routed in popular peer-to-peer file sharing networks; the downloads are direct from someone who has a piece of the file. So when you download a multi-gigabyte Blu-ray Disc rip, the machine on which it is shared still has to reveal its IP address. A copyright owner could log on to one of these services, download a piece of the work, and get an IP address, a time, and a block of the file: evidence that a piece of the copyrighted work has been distributed. Then the copyright owner can get a judge to compel the owner of a netblock to find the customer whose Internet access was used to distribute copies without authorization.

    Or would you onion-route the downloads too? Let me know when Tor has become efficient enough to run BitTorrent or eMule Kad Network over it.

    1. Re:Only the searches are onion-routed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or would you onion-route the downloads too? Let me know when Tor has become efficient enough to run BitTorrent or eMule Kad Network over it.

      Neither.
      http://mute-net.sourceforge.net/