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Open Source Languages Rumble At OSCON

Posted by kdawson on from the fairest-of-them-all dept.

blackbearnh writes "Everybody knows what the best programming language is, it's whatever one you like the most. But is there a best language overall? Or even a best language for a given purpose? This question has been debated since the first time there were two languages to choose from. The argument is still going on, of course, but maybe a little light will be shed on the issue this week at OSCON. On Wednesday night at 7PM Pacific, representatives of the 5 major open source languages (perl, PHP, Python, Java and Ruby), as arbitrarily decided by O'Reilly, will meet to debate the merits of their various languages. If you're not going to be at OSCON, you can watch it live on a webcast and pose questions or comments to the participants. The representatives are: Python: Alex Martelli, Google; Ruby: Brian Ford, Engine Yard; PHP: Laura Thomson, Mozilla; Perl: Jim Brandt, Perl Foundation; Java: Rod Johnson, SpringSource."

7 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. what does open mean? by at10u8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When did C lose its status as an open source language? or do we mean languages for web apps?

    1. Re:what does open mean? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe they meant languages where the whole stack is Open Source. All the standard software and libraries for those languages is Open Source. There is no standard C compiler, runtime, or library -- only a specification (which is not Open Source or Free) with which to build your own implementation of them.

      Seriously, what the fuck?

      There are multiple open source C stacks all the way from the top to the bottom. Compilers: gcc, tcc and llvm. Gnu's libc, the various libc's in BSDs. Uclibc.

      The main criticism that you're levelling at C is that it actually has a published standard! None of the other languages do. They have an "official" implementation, but nothing like the rather rigorously specified ISO C standard. And if you don't like the cost of paying for it, then you can download N1124, which was the last draft of the standard just before ratification. It's completely free and very accurate.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:what does open mean? by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll consider C a 'bastard child of assembly' as soon as I can reliably emit arbitrary opcodes (rotate through carry instructions, for instance) without using proprietary extensions.

      The popularity of C is interresting (thank you K&R), the reason for its development is interresting (thank you AT&T), but it is not a low level language. Its a mid to high level language whos programmers incorrectly label as low level, in what I guess is some desparate attempt to make themselves feel superior.

      Its low level only in terms of the abstract machine it targets, which barely touches the surface of any actual instruction sets. This abstract machine is sufficient enough to design and implement rudimentary operating systems (with proper machine-specific extensions), but that just aint low level. The low level bits *are* the machine-specific extensions, and that just aint C.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. Re:What is an open source language? by hardburn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why were those particular languages picked?

    Probably because someone competent and authoritative enough was willing to speak on the languages listed.

    --
    Not a typewriter
  3. little indeed. by N!NJA · · Score: 3, Insightful
    from TFS (emphasis mine):

    The argument is still going on, of course, but maybe a little light will be shed on the issue this week at OSCON. On Wednesday night at 7PM Pacific, representatives of the 5 major open source languages [...]

    5 geeks.... 90 minutes.... that will be a very dim light to be shed on such unanimously-agreed subject.

  4. the title of this post is flawed by buddyglass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Programming languages do not have source code, and thus cannot be "open source". Unless perhaps you're referring to languages whose specifications are updated by means of some community driven process, e.g. Sun's JCP. Interpreters, virtual machines and run-time environments do have source code and can be open source. They're just not the same thing as "the programming language" itself, which is essentially just a specification.

  5. Re:What is an open source language? by alexandre_ganso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or because those are whose sell more books. Remember, the thing is being organized by O'Reilley.