Slashdot Mirror
FOIA Documents Detail iPods Overheating, Catching Fire
suraj.sun passes along a report from a Seattle TV station that has been investigating reports of Apple iPods overheating and bursting into flames. "An exclusive KIRO 7 Investigation reveals an alarming number of Apple brand iPod MP3 players have suddenly burst into flames and smoke, injuring people and damaging property. It's an investigation that Apple has apparently been trying to keep out of the public eye. It took more than 7 months for KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator Amy Clancy to get her hands on documents concerning Apple's iPods from the Consumer Product Safety Commission because Apple's lawyers filed exemption after exemption. In the end, the CPSC released more than 800 pages which reveal, for the very first time, a comprehensive look that shows, on a number of occasions, iPods have suddenly burst into flames, started to smoke, and even burned their owners. ... Apple refused to comment, and refused to answer all of the other questions [the reporter] has been asking of the company since November."
...for people engaged in petrol sniffing.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Apple just said it had a smokin' quarter...
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
Microsoft scramble to add explosion functionality to the Zune.
The nature of things hasn't changed.
Apples can and do still go bad.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Summary:
> Investigation reveals an alarming number of Apple brand iPod MP3 players have suddenly burst into flames and smoke
.
Article:
>When the documents finally arrived more than seven months later, they included more than 800 pages of information, including 15 burn and fire-related incidents blamed by iPod owners on their iPods.
.
> After conducting its own preliminary investigation, the federal agency determined that, with more than 175 million iPods sold, âoethe number of incidents is extremely small in relation to the number of products produced, making the risk of injury very low.â
.
I'm ALARMED!
Apple has not managed to hide the suicide of one of their suppliers employees after he was on the receiving end of a good deal of intimidation. In today's media environment once the shine comes off of a star the media is more than happy to jump on the mud throwing bandwagon. If this gains any traction then there is a good chance that people will be more than happy to pile on.
I would appreciate it if we didn't tag every apple story with macbook if it doesn't have to do with macbooks. One day, I or someone else may actually want to use the tagging system for its function of looking up stuff that has to do with that tag, and I will not be happy when I want to look at macbook related stories and see 90% of the articles are about ipods.
I mean, my iPod's only exploded what, three times? Okay, four, but that last time my girlfriend loaded some Celine Dion on it, so that falls squarely under self-defence.
That's a far better track record than most of my electronic devices.
High enough energy density and you go from energy store to high explosive.
Best Slashdot Co
...and the burning ipod did speak unto Jobs and appointed him to lead the users out of Vista and unto the promised land of OSX.
Well, at least they have implemented the HCF-instruction alright.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
According to the article (you DID read the article, didn't you?) there has been no serious injuries. The article details how, after 7 months of investigation, the reporter has found bloggers blogging about overheating iPods, but the number reported in the article is about ... 35. That's out of the 175 million devices out there...
Hardly a product flaw. Perhaps some rare individual and isolated parts are flawed, but this isn't a systemic problem.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission conducted its own preliminary investigation and determined that, with more than 175 million iPods sold, âoethe number of incidents is extremely small in relation to the number of products produced, making the risk of injury very low.â
Nothing to see here, move along. kdawson, queue the apple haters. Oh, and start posting real stories or find another job.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
A while back I had a problem with the power brick for my Macbook Pro. It was running awful hot, and some of the plastic on the cable near the magnetic adapter was starting to melt. Applecare kept trying to tell me that the problem was my fault for unplugging the adapter by pulling on the cable instead of actually grabbing the magsafe plug, and that despite me having paid for applecare, they would not fix it.
A couple days later while playing a game in bootcamp, I went to unplug it, and was so hot that the power cord's coating actually melted to my hand. I called up AppleCare went through the situation again. I even explained that it had melted, I seemed to get nowhere. Where I had touched the cord it had now darkened considerably, probably from me being able to see the bare cable beneath it. I was trying to describe this to the tech and said something along the lines of, "Well there's melting damage, and the area is blackened a bit as if there was a small fire there"
Suddenly the whole tone of the conversation changed, and I was immediately transfered to a supervisor. I went through about 10 minutes answering a series of questions off a script. "Did the Fire cause any property damage?" "Was there any bodily injury caused by the fire?" "Have you suffered any loss of income due to this problem?" etc etc etc.
I answered no to everything, but simply mentioning "Fire" got me a new power brick, when no other method did. It is something Apple is clearly concerned about.
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
...I still get sick and tired of all of these absurd "special reports" on the news about the "unseen dangers" in the world that are orders of magnitude less likely to cause you serious harm than being struck by lightning. Certainly, Apple should be held responsible, particularly for their gross mishandling of the situation (trying to sweep it under the rug), but can we grow up a little? It does not seem that there has been any serious damage or injury as a result of this. This culture of fear that the news has been cultivating is beyond nauseating and is destroying our society piece by piece. Because of all the news coverage into child abductions, for instance, we teach our children that strangers are dangerous and keep them close to our chests at all times, despite the fact that the odds of a child being abducted by a stranger are literally 1 in a million! The same thing has happened with the War on Terror (TM), one terrorist attack and all of a sudden its necessary to start stripping away human rights and make air travel more or less unusable. We feel that airport security is necessary, despite the fact that it logically makes no sense. We see all the exposes on the dangers of drug use, yet fail to recognize that in reality aspirin is more dangerous. We humans are terrible at assessing risk, which leads to crap like this happening. I could fill an encyclopedia with examples of this, but I think the point I am trying to make is fairly clear, that this is juvenile behavior.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
"more than 800 pages of information, including 15 burn and fire-related incidents blamed by iPod owners"
Lets see, according to wikipedia, over 173 million ipods have been sold as of last September. Out of these, there are only 15 documented fire related incidents? Not to downplay the impact this had on the individuals but I can hardly see where this constitutes a risk to the public. At that rate, there are probably more ipod related choking incidents. The article keeps referring to the "800 pages" rather than the actual number of incidents which looks like they're trying to create the appearance that this is a big problem. If anyone feels that this is a serious danger then they need to be wearing a motorcycle hemet when walking around the house and and a life preserver at breakfast in case they might drown in their cereal bowl. Living involves some risks but I think this one I'll safely ignore.
Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
Read the article. The long report they talk about says that 15 were reported. That's 15 out of 175,000,000 (175 million).
Cars, computers, flippin' aircraft... I'd imagine a lot of products have catastrophic failures (such as sparks or fires) 1 in 11.6 million times. How often does it make the news (particularly nationally) when some guy's TV shorts out and ignites, or a car battery explodes.
And to clarifiy my position, I didn't jump down Sony's or Dell's or Apple's throat when their laptop batteries were causing major problems either. Though it's obviously good to know, as so many were affected, the most that can be said is that it was the battery manufacturers.
Apple has quashed reporting of 100% of them.
The article in question does not cite any raw data. Useless.
Nokia had a similar problem with a subset of their BL-5C batteries. Nokia sold 300 million of these batteries, of which 46 million were defective. Of those, only 100 resulted in thermal failure, and all but a handful resulted only in the destruction of the device itself.
By comparison, Apple has sold about 175 million iPods. No doubt, only a subset of those contain a defective battery which could result in destructive failure. This isn't Apple being lazy, or even worthy of the publicity this news outlet is trying to generate. At worse, the chances of YOUR iPod bursting into flames is about 1:100,000
If you want to be cautious anyhow, follow these guidelines for protecting your iPod and any other device with a lithium ion battery:
1. Never leave it in your car or any other environment which would reach temperatures in excess of 120 degrees.
2. When charging a lithium ion device, do so while you are awake and in the room. If you charge overnight, do so on a non-flammable surface.
3. Buy a leather case for your cell phone. Not only does it protect the device, it also provides a thermal barrier should the battery fail while it is on your person.
Except your example is indirectly related to Apple. It's their supplier and thus it's the suppliers responsibility. This however is fully their shit. The fact that your iPod may catch fire and burn down your house is not something to keep quiet about, no matter to what extent the problem goes. How many times have you tossed your portable mediaplayer on the bed/sofa or on the sill close to the curtains, or even on the rug. In contrast to your example this is truly a serious problem, which is why it took half an eternity for this to be exposed and a week or so for the suicide to leak, with the official story. It could easilly been swept under the rug as just social pressure, wiping the 16 prototype iPods from the story. But Apple are fully aware of that in this case they act as customers, leaving them with little to no responsibility for the suicide. What's unfortunate though is that the parent is absolutely right. This will be downsized by the Apple zealots, whom I find, while very similar, even more pathetic than followers of scientology. On the plus side Apple zealots tend to own more Apple equipment, thus they should hold a much higher risk of having their home burnt down. Perhaps that will teach them how sick it is to love a business that don't employ you.
I am the lawn!
I used to work for Fisher-Price. I got a call from a woman whose child choked on something, she was an EMT so the child was fine, but it was clearly hazardous.
Given that ONE report, Fisher-Price notified the CPSC, proposed a solution and a way of publicizing it, and within ONE WEEK there were news releases, posters being sent to pediatrician's offices, ads in parenting magazines, etc. This was not something mandated by the CPSC, but rather something F-P proposed to the CPSC and the CPSC said "Ok, sounds like a plan - go for it."
In contrast, a less reputable children's products manufacturer had to be SUED by the CPSC and forced into a recall after their product had KILLED children. But even in that case, there was no cover-up and attempt to squelch those facts.
Now granted - children's products are different and safety is more of a concern - but even given the less stringent attitude towards adults products, I'd say BUSTING into fucking FLAMES is enough to move past that realm of nonchalance into starting to give a shit.
(Also, F-P's practices changed after the Mattel take-over, and I came close to being a whistle-blower about another safety issue, but that's another story.)
Bottom line is, an ethical company would have dealt with this publicly and openly, issued a recall for the effected production runs, and taken the 10-20 million dollar hit, knowing it was worth it in the long run for good will and also knowing that it was a relative pittance compared to their massive profit margins and the BILLIONS of dollars Apple has socked away.
A less ethical company would have been forced to act.
An UNETHICAL company would cover it up.
Apple is an unethical company.
This space available.
The fact that your iPod may catch fire and burn down your house is not something to keep quiet about, no matter to what extent the problem goes.
Even when the odds are 1 in 11 million + units? You have a greater chance of winning a lottery than you do of getting burned by your iPod. For that matter, at least one of those cases was due to the user sitting down with the thing in their pants pocket. I can't tell you how many Nintendo Gameboys I had to repair with broken screens because the kids sat on them or stuffed them in their front pants pocket. You try sitting down with something about the size of your hand in your pocket; it's going to flex, and flexing is likely to bend the battery or some other component.
I mean, really! Out of over 175 Million units sold, only 15 had an overheating problem? That's more reliable than even the Model T!
R E M O V A B L E
B A T T E R I E S
I think it is plain and obvious to see that the reason Apple doesn't want removable batteries is to prevent a 3rd part market in battery sales but also to make products without removable batteries more "disposable." People can argue to the contrary, but the conclusion needs to fit with typical consumer behavior. Such behavior includes a high failure and low willingness to follow through with warranty claims and procedures among others such as the tendency to throw away instead of recycling. (It is useless to point out that some people WILL do those things. The majority of people will not.)
Simple question: How does this relate to the discussion at hand about iPods?
I suppose "Simple" is one way to describe your question.
The discussion at hand about iPods is not really about them catching fire. It's really about the fact that Apple has been trying to hide the fact from the public. Apple also tried to hide B&W G3 data corruption from the public by removing the TIL when they folded it into the KB. In general, Apple attempts to hide its failures from the public, to the detriment of the customer. Their cachet depends on people believing that they are somehow different from other manufacturers, but in reality they are depressingly similar.
It should not take a FOIA request to find out what the catch-fire-and-burn rate is on a piece of electronics you're considering purchasing. And it should not require that you surf the antique web to find out why your computer is corrupting files. Increasing used value increases new value, so preventing people from finding out about problems with your hardware potentially increases profits. It's certainly one thing working for Apple...
Comments like yours make me feel like I'm in school. Nobody should have had to write a fucking essay to explain this to you.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Buying accessories to prevent bodily harm from a freaking cellphone or mp3 player seems pretty excessive to me. I'd sooner reconsider my purchase of such a device than go to these lengths...
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Reminds me of Fight Club:
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I don't know how large a company KIRO 7 is, but using the phrase "alarming number of" instead of "15", to sensationalize a story, is certainly unethical.
This doesn't give Apple a pass but we have no way of knowing what they've done internally to address the problem. Could be nothing. Regardless, I don't blame them for not wanting the story widely reported in the media.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
Suddenly the whole tone of the conversation changed, and I was immediately transfered to a supervisor. I went through about 10 minutes answering a series of questions off a script. "Did the Fire cause any property damage?" "Was there any bodily injury caused by the fire?" "Have you suffered any loss of income due to this problem?" etc etc etc.
I answered no to everything, but simply mentioning "Fire" got me a new power brick, when no other method did. It is something Apple is clearly concerned about.
"Hi, Applecare. I bought a mac mini and a month later you released a better one with more specs. I'd like to return and upgrade."
"No."
"Did I mention it, ah, burst into flames?"
"Fire?"
"Fire fire fire!"
"Holy fuck, we'll get a new one out immediately, just promise not to talk to the press!"
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Well, I think that ONE ipod that bursts into flames is an alarming number, if that one is in my pants pocket right next to my man-gear. But, I agree that the need of the media to cause fear and panic leads to stupidly sensationalist language in their stories. Of course, more people will watch a story about someone with third-degree burns on their crotch (in the hope that they will show it) than will watch a discussion of leading economists about the difficulties of tracking TARP funds, so it is partly our fault.
Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
Short of the consumer taking something apart and/or modifying it, safe design takes into account user mistakes, routine mishandling and forseeable events like the ones you mention. You design things to be fail-safe. Fail safe doesn't mean it never fails, it means it fails in a safe manner. You design things so that they either can't be used incorrectly (in the casual sense) or if they ARE, they just don't work.
This space available.
Top Secret Apple Document: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2099
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck