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The Irksome Cellphone Industry

gollum123 writes "David Pogue of the NYTimes wonders why Congress is worrying about exclusive handset contracts when there are more significant things that are broken, unfair, and anti-competitive in the American cellphone industry. He lists text messaging fees, double billing, handset subsidies, international call rates, and 'airtime-eating instructions' among the major problems not being addressed by Congress. 'Right now, the cell carriers spend about $6 billion a year on advertising. Why doesn't it occur to them that they'd attract a heck of a lot more customers by making them happy instead of miserable? By being less greedy and obnoxious? By doing what every other industry does: try to please customers instead of entrap and bilk them? But no. Apparently, persuading cell carriers to treat their customers decently would take an act of Congress.'"

52 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can't legislate somebody or something into being nice.

    1. Re:Impossible by wealthychef · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You can't legislate somebody or something into being nice.

      Sure you can, indirectly. Force them to compete for their business by making "exclusivity contracts" illegal.

      --
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    2. Re:Impossible by TrollHammer · · Score: 4, Informative
      You can punish a corportarion if it does not behave correctly - like the European Comission has done with Microsoft and Intel, recently. Quoting the original article:

      TEXT-MESSAGING FEES Why has the price of a text message gone to 20 cents, from 10, in two years? There was no big technology shift. There was no spike in the cost of electrons. And speaking of anticompetitive: Is not it a little fishy that all four big United States carriers raised their text-message fees at essentially the same time?

      That is not a question of being nice or not being nice - if that's true, their behaviour is illegal, plain and simple, and should be punished.

    3. Re:Impossible by causality · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can't legislate somebody or something into being nice.

      Sure you can, indirectly. Force them to compete for their business by making "exclusivity contracts" illegal.

      Yes, but why stop there? Here's what I'd like to see:

      • Eliminate all forms of being locked into a contract. Make all cellphone service a monthly deal like any other utility so that the carrier has to earn your business each month. Y'know, by being competitive.
      • Require that customers can use any phone on any network of the same type, regardless of carrier. I.e. any GSM phone on any GSM network and any CDMA phone on any CDMA network.
      • Ban all locking down of phones so that transitioning to another network does not require the old carrier's assistance.
      • Regard the intentional locking down of cellphone applications as a prosecutable anticompetitive practice. The fines should be at least 120% of any profits made from doing so, as measured by sales of exclusive apps. Of course, the provider of the phone need not support any third-party applications, i.e. Apple would not be expected to support an application that didn't come from their own app store.
      • For GSM networks, require that any fees charged for text messaging state on the bill that cell phones continuously transmit the data structures used by SMS whether or not text messages are sent, so the cost for the carrier to provide text messaging is effectively zero. Require that this statement be immediately below or next to the dollar amount and in at least a 12 point font.

      THAT would be customer-friendly.

      --
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    4. Re:Impossible by oliphaunt · · Score: 4, Informative

      The iPhone and Blackberries would bounce up to more normal $800+ pricing.

      I call BS. You can buy an 8 gig ipod touch today for under $200. According to the iSupply teardown, the GSM chipset in the iphone costs $2.80.

      $179.00 + $3.00 != $800

      --




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    5. Re:Impossible by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I must live in an alternate reality United States.

      My phone cost $40 upfront, but they gave me 40 dollars of free calls, so essentially the phone was free and I was just paying for my airtime. I have no contract and I'm free to quit whenever I feel like it. You don't "have" to sign a contract if you don't want to, or pay an arm-and-leg for a phone since there are plenty of cheap ones around.

      I do think the exclusivity deals need to end. It reminds me of the dark ages of 1970s when the only phone you could get was an expensive AT&T phone. Even modems had to be bought direct from the phone company (or else use an acoustic modem with a phone cradle). But now thanks to government regulation, we can buy any $5-10 phone or $20-30 modem and just plug it directly into the wire. That's the kind of freedom we need with cellphones - no requirement that you "have" to use an AT&T phone with your AT&T service.

      --
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    6. Re:Impossible by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My phone cost $40 upfront, but they gave me 40 dollars of free calls, so essentially the phone was free and I was just paying for my airtime.

      Yes, but that could be one hour of calls.

      Actually, I meant that as an exaggerated joke to prove a point, but then I realised that a lot of "normal" phone-to-phone calls I could make on my pay-as-you-go phone work out at virtually that (in UK money) per hour.

      Anyway, point I was going to make is that $40 "worth" of calls sounds nice, but isn't great if the calls are horribly expensive. In fact, they could charge twice as much for the calls, give you the same hour (or whatever's) worth and announce it as "OMG!!!!! $80 worth of free calls with this $40 phone".

      Which sounds like an even better deal, when in reality it's way worse because you don't actually get any more free, and your calls are twice as expensive.

      Same applies with dirt cheap printers that take horrendously priced ink carts. Buying a new printer because that $40 model comes with an ink cart worth $30 "free"? And the more they overprice the ink, the more that "free" cart is "worth", and the more the printer costs to run. It would make more sense to buy a printer where (e.g.) similar replacement carts were $10. But people don't think like that.

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    7. Re:Impossible by lokiomega · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a good thing for them that you're expendable then.

    8. Re:Impossible by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Require that customers can use any phone on any network of the same type, regardless of carrier. I.e. any GSM phone on any GSM network and any CDMA phone on any CDMA network.

      Ban all locking down of phones so that transitioning to another network does not require the old carrier's assistance.

      Regard the intentional locking down of cellphone applications as a prosecutable anticompetitive practice. The fines should be at least 120% of any profits made from doing so, as measured by sales of exclusive apps. Of course, the provider of the phone need not support any third-party applications, i.e. Apple would not be expected to support an application that didn't come from their own app store.

      Eliminate all forms of being locked into a contract. Make all cellphone service a monthly deal like any other utility so that the carrier has to earn your business each month. Y'know, by being competitive.

      For GSM networks, require that any fees charged for text messaging state on the bill that cell phones continuously transmit the data structures used by SMS whether or not text messages are sent, so the cost for the carrier to provide text messaging is effectively zero. Require that this statement be immediately below or next to the dollar amount and in at least a 12 point font.
       
       

      The first three and likely the last two would be nicely fixed simply by making it illegal for a cell service provider to have anything to do with selling phones. The wired phone company used to pull the same thing - you had to rent the phone from them for some high monthly rate, and they'd only let one of their phones be hooked up to their wires. Then that all changed. When was the last time you bought a landline phone from the company that provided service for it?

    9. Re:Impossible by Aphex+Junkie · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't get it.

      Dogtanian is talking about the cost of service vs cost of hardware. The phone (hardware) has a certain determinable cost that is based on component and manufacturing costs, both of which are determined by the "free market".
      The "value" of the service (call minutes), however, is almost completely arbitrary and is *very* loosely based on actual costs of transmission, cell tower cost, operation cost, etc.

      This is just like those commercials that sell "bonus gifts" along with some shoddy product. The product is worth $19.99, but it comes with "$100" worth of extras. These extra products make it seem like you're getting a great deal when in reality you're getting a box of crap that's really worth $5 at most.

      Compare this to the "cost" of sending and receiving text messages. It costs the company almost nothing (and often literally nothing), but some charge upwards of 10 cents per message sent/received (T-Mobile Prepaid)!

    10. Re:Impossible by keithpreston · · Score: 2, Informative

      I call BS. You can buy an 8 gig ipod touch today for under $200. According to the iSupply teardown, the GSM chipset in the iphone costs $2.80.

      $179.00 + $3.00 != $800

      I call BS. GSM Chip = $2.80 + power amp chip for each band (Quad Band), + antenna+ plus a ram chip and memory chip for modem + Patent Royalties. Now all those extra chips require a higher layer board to put the more complex circuits. Now a phone requires PTCRB and GCF certification at $30,000-$100,000 a pop, but Carrier based lab testing. Those iSupply teardown are wildly inaccurate because they forget the patent royalties associated with GSM, Audio/Video Playback. Those can cost upwards of $5-$10 per device.

      This still doesn't add up to $800, but you cost estimate is inaccurate. You need to look at the current retail pricing of the current generation Ipod touch. Older models might be on clearance (with the retailer actually losing money) and don't reflect a real product costs.

      Real final costs for apple is probably in the $250 range per phone. Now they take a 100% markup and the retailer takes a 20% markup and we end up around $600

    11. Re:Impossible by Fastball · · Score: 2, Informative

      demonlapin probably uses AT&T. My wife and I just bought her mother a cell phone. AT&T is the carrier that most folks in her small town in a hilly part of the country use, so we opted to get a plan with them.

      We check her bill a week after getting the plan and there were several text message charges. A real headscratcher, because her mom is a major technophobe. No way she sent any text messages.

      Turns out AT&T sends your phone text messages when you make changes to your plan/profile online which my wife did. Bizarre, but you get charged for those text messages from AT&T. Had to call them to get that sorted out.

      Insane. My wife and I are going to get new cell phones and ditch the landline (hers, I moved in, I swear) in the next couple of months. This experience has us looking elsewhere than AT&T for our service.

  2. Double billing also happens in Europe by TrollHammer · · Score: 4, Informative

    DOUBLE BILLING In Europe, youâ(TM)re billed only when you place a cellphone call â" not when you answer one. And youâ(TM)re billed only when you send a text message â" not when you get one. In this country, thatâ(TM)s how itâ(TM)s always been for landlines, too.

    That's not completely true. You are billed if you receive the call, provided you are not in your home country (if you are in France spending a few days of vacation, and your contract is with a Spanish operator, then you get billed if you got a call while in France). Fortunately, the European Comission is working on reducing the prices for that double billing. It is something that I guess lots of people in USA would like to see Congress doing.

    1. Re:Double billing also happens in Europe by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I actually prefer the US version of double-billing for phone calls to the European one, as each person shoulders their expenses. The SMS thing is a complete joke though; may they die a quick and painful death!

      I wonder how much clout it would really take to do a multi-technology MVNO that opportunistically selects the cheapest carrier or the one with the best signal, and stops trying to be a "phone company." EVDO, 3G GSM, WiMax, WiFi... all in one handset?

    2. Re:Double billing also happens in Europe by Manip · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While it is true that cross-EU countries do suffer charges, that will only be the case for a little longer. The phone operators have already reduced the charges once and the EU is trying to get rid of them entirely, so phoning in France or the UK costs exactly the same and receiving calls is free.

      The US system is completely screwy. It is frankly shocking that you guys pay as much as we pay to send a text and on top of that you get charged to receive texts too (including adverts and other unsolicited text-spam). US voice isn't quite as bad because a lot of US carriers allow free inter-network cell calling as opposed to the fixed rates you often find in the EU.

      All in all, the US seriously needs some REAL competition as opposed to a small handful of large companies fighting for business while offering exactly the same terrible deal to consumers.

    3. Re:Double billing also happens in Europe by uniquename72 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Assuming you're talking about the U.S. (as the comment you replied to clearly was), you comment is false -- there is no 'do not call' list for cell phones, because it is illegal in the U.S. for telemarkets to call cell phones using automated dialers.

    4. Re:Double billing also happens in Europe by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not robocalls - any call that is not made by a human being punching in the number 1-555-123-4567 is prohibited to a cell phone. Autodialers are used by telemarketers to place the call, and when you pick up it hands the line to an open operator. I've never once gotten a telemarketing call on my cell phone, and the people I know who have gotten them have simply said "This is a cell phone" which resulted in profuse apology and immediately hanging up and never calling again.

  3. Data plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I got 2M unlimited (really unlimited) data plan on my cell phone. Costs roughly 10 euros/month. Now, why can't Americans have the same?

    Seriously, the voice calls are prioritized first in the networks, and it's practically indifferent to the network operators what the rest of all that already built bandwidth is doing. There shouldn't be lack either, unless if the operator really grossly undersized their networks. The impact around where I live at is zero but the customers get a pretty nice service.

    That service is good enough to cover the costs. What is important is that it enables new sorts of (business) concepts for mobile phones and mobile applications. That's where the local operators have their stakes in: things like virtual wallets and such. By not making the data plans itself near free utilities the American operators are in fact stalling innovation. I kind of feel sorry about the lack of vision there. Instead of that the operators choose to pretty much just poop on their future revenues which is baffling to me.

    1. Re:Data plans by hedwards · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Seriously, the voice calls are prioritized first in the networks, and it's practically indifferent to the network operators what the rest of all that already built bandwidth is doing. There shouldn't be lack either, unless if the operator really grossly undersized their networks. The impact around where I live at is zero but the customers get a pretty nice service.

      That tends to be a serious problem in the US, we don't require various communications companies to have the necessary bandwidth to handle things. I'm more familiar with ISPs and their tendency to oversell their capacity, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if cell networks were in a similar state.

      But then again, it could just be greed and corruption, the same thing which leads the free to provide text messaging service to be so ungodly expensive. Yeah, I realize it costs them something, but it's basically just slipped into messages that are going out already and costs basically nothing to provide.

  4. why Congress is worrying? by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Someone in congress must have wanted to move his iphone to a new carrier. They don't really give a damn about an issue out there in DC unless it effects them personally, or are paid off to care.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:why Congress is worrying? by nine-times · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think this is known to be literally the case. I recall something where some Congressman stood on the floor of whichever house he was in and complained that he wanted an iPhone and wanted to use Verizon.

      But hey, at least they're recognizing some kind of problem, and looking into doing something about it. I don't think it's necessarily that they only care about things that affect them personally, but they only understand the problem once it affects them directly. People aren't always that good at sympathy/empathy, and until they've felt the impact of a problem in their own life, complaints about that problem just seem like whining.

  5. Industry Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The industry response to these charges has been interesting so far. Apparently Pogue got at least one executive at a major carrier's attention long enough for a PR piece to follow that tries to poke holes in some of the complaints...

    1. Re:Industry Response by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I notice he doesn't necessarily address the complaints, though:

      Myth #1: Americans pay more for wireless service. Fact: Americans pay ten cents per minutes less than Europeans.

      Among the 26 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, Americans use the most wireless minutes per month, about four times more minutes than the average European consumer. Americans get the lowest cost per minuteâ¦an average of 10 cents lower per minute than Europeans pay.

      So Pogue complains that customers are getting double-billed for calls (which doesn't happen in Europe), and Verizon responds by saying Americans use more minutes and pay less per-minute than Europeans. Those ideas aren't in conflict. I would guess that Verizon is saying Americans use more billable minutes, which makes even more sense if they're being double-billed. Whether this is a better deal depends on how the math works out. If Americans are only paying half of what Europeans are paying per-minute, but are essentially being charged twice for every minute, then it's a wash.

      Now maybe it's true that Americans aren't getting such a bad deal. I'm just saying Verizon's vague responses don't really give enough information to evaluate them, and they don't address the complaints.

  6. Compared to Japan by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Informative

    In Japan the situation is pretty similar, while probably cheaper overall. From a few years back, the trend is the sale of a device for zero yen, while subscribing a 2-years contract. The "zero yen" is actually "You pay xxx yen monthly and, monthly, the carrier reimburses xxx yen" giving a zero-yen illusion (xxx being the actual devicePrice / 24). You may cancel the contract at anytime, but you'll have to pay the xxx * remaining-months (24 - months you paid) yen to the carrier. It is a good way to keep customers for at least 2 years. The iPhone 3G for instance is "free" (2 years contract) since March 2009.

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  7. Even simple steps would improve their image by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For example, a couple of weeks ago I began receiving robocalls to my mobile number from some "collection agency." They were obviously looking for someone else so I wasted a couple of minutes of airtime waiting for a human to pick up. After picking up, the twit basically said "we have the right person and you owe us $X" and that the calls would continue. I told them to never call me again and remove my number from their list. Now the robocalls continue at odd hours of the night and morning. When I complained to my carrier (ATT), they basically said "there's nothing we can do about it. BUT if you sign up for this new service for $4.99/month you can block specific numbers." So I complained that they were extorting money out of me to protect me from harassing phone calls. They suggested I complain to the FCC and didn't offer to help at all (other than suggesting yet another monthly fee).

    I'd love to just punt ATT, but they offer the best coverage around here. I'm open to suggestions on how to deal with this. ATT wouldn't even agree to block all "unknown/blocked callerID" numbers for me.

    Sigh....

    1. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Save the number the robocalls are originating from, and set the custom ringer to 'Silent.'

      Worked wonders for me when I had the same issue.

    2. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by FudRucker · · Score: 4, Informative

      switch carriers, dump AT&T, get a TracFone at your local dept. store along with an airtime card sign up anonymously online with the info from the card and nobody can attach your real identity to your new cellphone, only give the number to those that you approve of

      --
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    3. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's hardly useful to the vast majority of people who already have a lot of friends, coworkers and family that have their existing phone number.

    4. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by iburrell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Break out the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and get them to stop. Answer the phone and get their name and address and all the info about the debt. Mail them a written request for verification of the debt. After that, all contact needs to be by mail. They are already doing things they shouldn't like calling late at night. They are supposed to have mailed you a description of the debt. Keep a log of all of the calls and violations. Send them to the FTC if they don't stop. You can even sue them and get $1000 in damages for violations.

    5. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by frizop · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, complain to the FCC. http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm Follow the little wizard and put everything you told us into it. It's not AT&T's job to stop phone calls to your device. You either call the police or the FCC.

    6. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 2, Interesting

      switch carriers, dump AT&T, get a TracFone at your local dept. store along with an airtime card sign up anonymously online with the info from the card and nobody can attach your real identity to your new cellphone, only give the number to those that you approve of

      In my experience with reloadable phones, that would likely increase the number of collections calls. Those operators tend to have a customer base that often falls behind on bills, can't get credit, and ends up using reloadable phones because they can't get a contract.

      They also have a pool of numbers they reuse whenever an old customer drops and a new customer signs up. So it's likely you'll inherit a number previously used by a host of deadbeats.

    7. Re:Even simple steps would improve their image by imamac · · Score: 2, Funny

      What's your phone number again?

  8. By doing what other industries do??? by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    By doing what every other industry does: try to please customers instead of entrap and bilk them?

    "Industries" don't function that way, though individual companies can and do.

    GM and Chrysler sold crap, they knew they were selling crap, and their "exit strategy" was to have you and me and everyone else REWARD them for producing crap. Toyota, on the other hand, focused on what their customers wanted - a reliable means of transportaiton.

    More to the point, for the slashdot audience - Windows. It's crap. And yet, any efforts to end the lock-in are met with all sorts of fud, both from Microsoft, and teir partners, in an effort to continue to entrap and bilk and ass-rape their customers. Vista was supposed to be "the best Windows ever." That has changed to "We feel your pain - Windows 7 will be the best Windows ever." But no refunds for the millions who ended up stuck with crap. Costomer-focused? Nope - you're just peons to be lied to and raped and your wallets and purses pillaged.

    Show me this dream world where whole industries are trying to please their customers. It's still the exception, rather than the rule.

    1. Re:By doing what other industries do??? by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since the early 90s or so, GM and Chrysler weren't selling crap (no seriously, they might not have been as low maintenance as Toyota, but they weren't crap).

      The problem is that they made impossible promises 20-30-40 years ago, and the unions agreed to them (when the media talks about 'labor' costs of Detroit cars being higher, they aren't just talking about hourly, they are talking about funding retiree pensions and medical).

      The unions then agreed to work in new American factories for Toyota et al., with greater automation and lower wages. Go figure that GM and Chrysler couldn't compete.

      --
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  9. "I Am Not a Crook ... Really!" by resistant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One wonders to what extent the dominant business model of frantic and very often highly deceptive advertising effectively locks out the theoretical competitor willing to deal fairly with customers. If over here a service offers a very nice handset for a hundred dollars or for nothing after a sneaky rebate that may or may not be paid, "unlimited access" (to the Internet) with many lawyerly caveats that make it way less than unlimited, plus some seemingly large number of talk minutes per month that somehow ends up being rather less and which quietly saddles the heavy user with many extra fees, etc., then how exactly does the theoretical ethical service over there attract (the better class of) customers in all the noise and hand-waving?

    Telling potential customers that they will get less and pay more than with advertised plans from competitors, even if they actually get more and pay less, is a hard sell. When everyone else is lying, how do you prove you are not just another sleazy liar? Are there even enough potential customers of the ethical service provider in any given coverage area willing to take their eyes off the shiny new handset long enough to squint suspiciously and intelligently at the fine print?

    There must be a few smaller service providers that aren't crooked, scattered throughout the country. I wonder how well they are doing financially.

    --
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  10. They'd rather struggle by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They'd rather struggle, apparently. Why offer good/honest service at a good/honest price and keep customers while continuing to attract more, when you can just gouge the ones you have as much as possible? The movie theater industry has the same problem. Good movies or no, more people would go to the movies and buy from the snack stand if they didn't charge $17 for a Snickers and $43 for a popcorn and drink. Lots of people don't like going to the movies simply because the snacks are overpriced. So even if they do go, they don't go to the snack bar. If all these theater owners would wise up and charge reasonable prices for the goods in the snack bar, more people would utilize the service, and more people would go to the movies, and they'd make more money overall, despite making less on one sale. The cell industry is no different. Despite the fact that SMS text messages cost nothing to send, they're quite content to gouge customers for a service that costs them nothing to provide. They gouge for internet data usage. They gouge for MMS. They gouge for airtime. They're electing to remain oblivious to what customers actually say about them, because they claim they're struggling to make it as is. They claim they offer a fair service at a fair price, despite all the facts that prove otherwise. $5 from 1000 people will always be better than $10 from 100 people, but they'll never clue in that growing that 100 people into 1000 people is indeed just as simple as lowering their prices to something sane.

    1. Re:They'd rather struggle by Erbo · · Score: 2, Informative
      The theaters charge you insane prices at the snack bar because that's about the only way they actually make any money. They don't get hardly any of the insane prices you pay for tickets, because the movie studios screw them out of it. The theaters just have to pass the screwing on to you.

      The cell carriers, however, seem to originate most of their own screwing.

      --
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  11. Android by lgbr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is entirely why Android was developed and is so fundamentally important to the future of our communications. Today, without Android, what we're seeing is the case for network neutrality in the form of ringtone racketeering. Carriers are locking down your cell phone and forcing you to buy music from them. With every passing day we're using our computers less and our cell phones more. The difference between the two is that your carrier has total control over your cell phone while your ISP has no control over your computer. Suppose five years down the road you're still buying phones subsidized by a contract with software loaded onto them by Verizon. These phones end up replacing your desktop because they are now just as powerful. Now every time you want to listen to music, you are forced to suffer through a store worse than iTunes.. and let's even say Verizon forces you to use Bing instead of Google. This is bad for you as a consumer, and this is bad for Google as a content provider.

    Enter Android, where the operating system is open and available at no cost for any number of phones and presumably on any number of carriers. Now we see a future where everyone can run the same software on their phone regardless of carrier. Any time one carrier decides to lock down their phone people will quit buying it. It's not viable. Since we're talking about wireless data, it's easy enough to simply switch to another carrier. Now we've forced the telco's into companies that treat you fairly and compete for your business because they will become insolvent if they don't. We end up with network neutrality and control over our own hardware, and we did it organically without the use of government.

    Android is not the be-all, end-all phone operating system. However, if successful it will force all other cell phone platforms to provide the same level of freedom through market controls.

    1. Re:Android by pwizard2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Today, without Android, what we're seeing is the case for network neutrality in the form of ringtone racketeering.

      The worst thing is that the carriers are going along with the ringtone scammers. (the ones who bait unwary people with "free" ringtones and then auto-subscribe them to an expensive ringtone service or worse, spam them several times a day with expensive text messages) Most people don't realize that they could be trapped if they put in their phone number on one of the scam sites; for some reason, a phone number is treated just like a credit card but without any of the consumer protections. The carriers could help to shut these criminals down if they wanted to, but they don't because they get a pierce of the action.

      --
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    2. Re:Android by lgbr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Only if you're an idiot. People should try chucking those cell phones out the window sometime. Being free of such a useless piece of technology would probably make them feel good. No one needs to be "connected" 24/7 in such a superficial manner.

      There's nothing idiotic about it. Cell phones make our lives better. My cell phone has replaced the following tasks that I used to use my computer for:

      • Displaying the weather forecast
      • Alarm clock
      • Looking up restaurants, stores, and directions on a map
      • Tracking my car's mileage
      • Displaying stock quotes
      • Occasional emergency SSH sessions (when I'm out and I need to restart a system service immediately)
      • Some communication with friends
      • MP3 player in the car (yes, I used to use a computer for this)

      The cell phone consolidates your digital camera, camcorder, GPS, MP3 player, handheld gaming device, compass, bubble level, notepad, rolodex, photo album, and hell there's even an app to use your Android phone as a metal detector now. Better yet your phone will replace your dvd player before the end of this year.

      My point is that there is no idiocy behind using your cell phone more and your computer less because your cell phone does many things much more efficiently than your desktop can. So there's nothing stupid about using your phone instead of your computer when it saves you time.

  12. phone costs by p51d007 · · Score: 2, Informative

    That is all well and good, but, wireless customers have gotten "use" to the cell phones being "free" or 20-60 dollars, because of the contracts. I would prefer to pay a higher rate for a phone, and pick & choose the carrier to use it on. The USA is WAY behind the rest of the world in the choice of phones they can use. If carrier locks were removed, and just about anyone could sell a phone, the price on high end phones, as well as the throw away phones would, because of competition, come down. The carriers, for obvious reasons, like the subsidy locks, which "lock" you to a certain carrier until the contract runs out. Also, from a management standpoint, I'm sure the carriers would HATE to try to provide customer service to make sure the thousands of different phone types/styles would be compatible with their networks. Too bad, other countries do it. The USA wireless carriers are just lazy. Look at at&t's 3G network. Not enough bandwith to support the people signing up for the iPhone and other high end phones, to use the 3G network, are reduced to "dial up" speed because of overselling the network.

    1. Re:phone costs by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "cell phones being "free" or 20-60 dollars"

      Pray tell, where are these? I went into a verizon store to replace the two phones my kids lost, and *after* all the discounts and what not, I walked out abut $120.00 poorer.

      Did you sign a new 2-year contract for those phones? If not, then of course you'll pay regular retail price. That's kinda the whole point of this discussion.

    2. Re:phone costs by ciscoguy01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is all well and good, but, wireless customers have gotten "use" to the cell phones being "free" or 20-60 dollars, because of the contracts. I would prefer to pay a higher rate for a phone, and pick & choose the carrier to use it on.

      Heh. You wouldn't have to pay a higher rate for a phone.
      The whole problem is caused by this:
      There is no competition at all. The cellphone carriers keep a stranglehold on the equipment, with fake subsidies for the equipment which is a piece of subterfuge used to keep customers locked into long contracts. They mark the phones up to $300 or $400, then give you a big discount for signing a 2 year contract.
      The carriers should not be allowed to sell phones at all.
      If the carriers were just carriers, they would only be concerned with satisfying their customers.
      The carriers have very valuable FCC licenses. They have some amount of responsibility that they operate in the public interest, however little anymore.
      You would buy your phone from a retailer, and Motorola, Apple, Nokia would be beating down the door at Walmart to sell those phones, which would then work on all networks. They would be sold in a highly competitive market. Prices would decline. There would be no way to mark them up and then discount them since you would be buying from a retailer who has no interest in your service. The kickbacks would stop too.
      Then the carriers would be free to compete with each other and there would be no anticompetitive subsidy locking of handsets, no contracts to keep you locked in, and the prices of the service would decline.
      This would be pure business. Manufacturing, selling, providing service, all independent of each other.

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  13. We brought this on ourselves by cr64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the carriers thought that their customers really wanted no contract plans, they would compete for that business. As it stands, it is really not hard to get mobile service without contracts. Even pre-pay plans can be quite economical. Unlocked phones are readily available if you are willing to pay for them up front. Unfortunately most people are willing to sell their freedom for $50 off the cost of a phone, so the carriers keep doing it.

  14. Re:let me introduce you to by EvanTaylor · · Score: 2, Informative

    But this isn't capitalism. There is no free market in telecommunications, they are awarded a monopoly on spectrum, and have often been given rights to put up radio towers wherever they want. These companies then take that monopoly advantage and lack of competition to milk consumers for every penny they can.

    All the cell carriers have roughly the same price plans for everything, and the costs go up at similar times. There needs to be an investigation into their trust, because I cannot believe that there is not price fixing going on.

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    Sleep is for the weak.
  15. Wait, you actually believe by hansamurai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That acts of Congress actually work?

  16. So? by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So? Separate out the phone financing. It should have been separate all along. It can share the bill with the service, but you should be able to drop the service part and either buy out the phone or continue the financing deal.

    The way they have it now, they get to play "unregulated bank" (like paypal) at usury rates and even worse: when you finish paying off the phone, you still get to pay the subsidy rate as if you were still paying it off! (and no, I don't think $5--$10 off if I sign another 24 month contract is sufficient. I shouldn't have to sign a contract to get the rate I should be getting anyway)

    There is definitely a market failure going on here, and while I oppose regulation on principle, something does need to be done to bring back competition or fix the issue. If competition is impossible in this market then regulation is in fact warranted. And the regulation should be onerous enough that the companies prefer the market solution over the regulatory one.

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    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  17. Re:They can't improve service, it would hurt profi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At one time, the stock market was a place where people could invest in companies that they believed were well run, stable, and had products and services that people wanted. Stock was a mid to long term investment.

    Now it's treated as little more than casino gambling. It hardly matters if a company actually has a product or not anymore as long as it looks like the stock will go up. Long term stability isn't even a consideration. An "investor"'s wet dream is to buy a big chunk of stock in a company that then burns 100% of it's accumulated good will, cash reserves, and future to raise stock prices. As long as they can sell just before the dead carcass hits the ground.

    That's why CEOs like Chainsaw Al Dunlap were Wall Street darlings right up to the point the street realized that Al and company would hide the signs to jump off so they could get THEIR stock sold off at the top.

    That's why the internet bubble happened. It's not that astute investors actually believed that mail order pet food was the wave of the future, it's that they believed enough people would buy stock in it (people who believed the same thing they did) that the stock would skyrocket (as it did). Each resolved to sell it off near it's height (mostly to smaller more naive investors) before it dawned on everyone that people buy pet food at the grocery store. Meanwhile, smarter but less flashy small companies with real prospects for the long term couldn't get the time of day from investors. Arguably the few successes from the dot-bomb were companies that had what would traditionally be considered a good investment and were able to wrap it in flashy pie in the sky crapola long enough to get investors.

    The more stodgy telecoms are popular investments mainly because they have plenty of momentum to burn in exchange for unsustainably inflated profits. On the corporate side, their big play is to be too ubiquitous for consumers to avoid. You can run to an upstart, but they in turn depend on the old telecoms who will either crush them or beat them down and then buy them up.

  18. Answer: Because they can! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, for answering all your questions and killing all the buildup at once. ;)

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    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  19. prepaid by zogger · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, you can get prepaid here. Phones are $20 to $100, minutes are between $.08-15. Network protocol varies by carrier, there's a mix. Not all carriers serve all areas equally, so you have to chose by where you will be using it the most. SMS I don't use so haven't paid attention to the costs, I think from what I hear though they are mostly a ripoff price, like ten cents apiece or something nasty like that with prepaid.

  20. Re:Congressional action is what we need! by Erbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, the carriers could just buy the Congressmen to avoid this sort of thing. If Verizon is making $850 million a year off people waiting through 15-second voice mail system prompts, as Pogue claims, surely that will buy off enough Reps/Senators to let them keep doing it indefinitely.

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    Be who you are...and be it in style!
  21. You can debrand your phone by ccady · · Score: 2, Informative

    I knew squat about how badly my AT&T cell phone was locked down. Until the day when I installed Google maps and got annoyed that it 1) did not use the built-in GPS on the phone, and 2) continually asked me if it could access the internet. How crippled is that? I looked up how to fix these problem (hooray internet!) and I found some kind person's instructions on how to debrand my W760 phone. I realized that this would also fix several other problems with the phone, such at the limit that ring tones be less than 30 seconds long.

    The bottom line is that I had *no clue* that my phone was so crippled by AT&T! My ignorance was stunning. I had avoided buying an iPod because I thought Apple was "insanely controlling," but now realize that AT&T is just as bad.

    Here are some of the things that AT&T did:

    1. They restrict access to the built-in GPS so that you can only use applications that AT&T sanctions and makes you pay a monthly service fee for.
    2. They do not allow ring tones of MP3 files longer than 30 seconds. (33, actually?)
    3. They do not allow you to delete the ugly trialware applications that come installed on the phone.
    4. They do not let you run more than 1 application at a time + the media player.
    5. They do not let you configure an application as trusted to access the internet without asking *every* access. (This ruins many applications.)
    6. They force the browser's home page to their spammy advertising site.

    I'm sure there are other evil things. I'm *much* happier with my phone now, and it will become a much bigger part of my life now that I have "debranded" it. I am still a customer, but I now have no loyalty to a company that would pull that crap on me.

    (I am not affiliated in any way with this site which seems to have lots of good information on cell/mobile phone debranding.)

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    J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas